Avant Garde Rock

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I'm looking directly at artists like US Maple, Joan of Arc, and Storm and Stress on this one.

What makes it good, what makes it bad?

What is classic, what is dud?

― Todd Burns, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think you've just posited the hardest-to-define genre ever. The examples help specify -- I mean, I can certainly see those three as typifying a certain musical category, some post-post confluence of the same genre influences -- but at the same time, you could definitely pull two of those three out into completely different categories: the post-emo connections for Joan of Arc, and what I guess I'll call post-math-rock (sorry) for Storm and Stress. I'm going to pretend Arab Strap or Cheer-Accident are on that list instead of Joan of Arc, who only really dabbled in the avant-garde for a track or two per record until their last.

That said, I'm going to be lazy and say that the whole defining characteristic of the actually avant-garde is that it's really hard to say what works and what doesn't -- things really have to be considered individually for what they are. I'll save the search and destroy part for a later posting.

― Nitsuh, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Search: Red Krayola, Storm & Stress (who are magnificent!). Destroy: Joan of Arc, who are poseurs.

― Sterling Clover, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sterling Clover in a-g rock post without mentioning Rodan shocker!!

― Josh, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Rodan aren't avant-rock. They're seminal math-rock. Music is too precise, too controlled, and too formally structured to fit with the avant-jazz links which seem to be at the heart of what Todd was talking about.

― Sterling Clover, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

brise-glace!!! and this heat for being better than any of them and well before them.

― your null fame, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Avant garde rock is something that has been around a lot longer than bands like Joan of Arc or US Maple.

Henry Cow, Zappa, Univers Zero, Art Bears, Shub Niggurath, Ruins, Boredoms, Naked City, Mr. Bungle, Ground Zero, Jyoji Sawada's Base of Fiction, Etron Fou, Igor Wakhevitch, Biota, Faust, Fushitsusha, 5uu's, and even "prog" bands like Magma or Zamla Mammaz Manna are some examples of very good avant-rock.

It would be hard to label the whole genre bad or good, but all of the bands I listed are pretty fucking amazing in their way.

― dleone, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I understand that it has been along for a long time, but I was just using those as modern reference points.

I'm curious to see what people think distinguishes bad avant garde rock from good avant garde rock.

Why is US Maple so venerated and Joan of Arc so hated?

― Todd Burns, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

variable characteristics of a-g rock -- intensity, speed, sonic density, dissonance, uniformity. I dunno why some feels so bland (J of A) some feels so constricting (Naked City) and some feels just like free jazz on a guitar (some of the japanoise) and some feels tremendous (U.S. Maple).

― Sterling Clover, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I dunno -- I've always thought of Joan of Arc as fairly well-liked, but that may just be Chicago. The loathing they get now is solely a result of their last record, The Gap, which officially got the worst reviews of any album I've ever seen widely reviewed. (The Gap being the avant-rock one, incidentally.)

― Nitsuh, Friday, 5 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This Heat's "Deceit" has just been reissued, and for anyone here with an interest in avant-garde rock, they pretty much wrote the book (as far as modern stuff goes), or at least a good couple of chapters. Highly recommended.

― dleone, Saturday, 6 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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