Discuss.
― some_idiot, Friday, 13 February 2004 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)
― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)
― some_idiot, Friday, 13 February 2004 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)
― My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)
― chuck, Friday, 13 February 2004 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)
― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)
― some_idiot, Friday, 13 February 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)
xpost
― My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)
― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)
p.s) you should search for liz phair threads, and post on those too!
― chuck, Friday, 13 February 2004 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)
"In search of Saint Cough-syrup" und Rock Kritik ist der Sieg.
Or read Paul Fussell's Bad.
― George Smith, Friday, 13 February 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)
And I know it's something you just do, whether it's paint houses or walk dogs for a living. And the purpose of those jobs is to, well, paint houses and walk dogs. However there is often an end result: house is green, dog is tired...job done.
But I'm talking about JOURNALISTS. They serve a function: to inform and educate. So is the role of a critc the same? That's really all I'm asking be discussed.
― some_idiot, Friday, 13 February 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)
― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)
― My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)
― My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)
Where'd you get this howler?
― George Smith, Friday, 13 February 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)
― another_idiot, Friday, 13 February 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)
― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)
― My Huckleberry Friend (Horace Mann), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 February 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)
-to tell me not to buy the new *^*^* record because it's dull. That might not stop me from listening to it, but it will make me give it more thought before spending money. This is only if I trust the critic from past performance.
-to validate my decision to get 8 hours of sleep last night instead of going to see unspecified band.
-to tell me that the Strokes sound just like Television. OK, bad example and it didn't work anyway - but "reccommended if you like..." can sometimes lead to great things. (I can thank Christgau for many of these...)
-to tell Rick Wakeman that he has no talent and should consider retiring. Even if it doesn't work, someone had to go on record and say it.
― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 13 February 2004 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)
It has been said often enough that anyone with a pen, notebook, and a few bottles of wine can become a rock critic. And that is exactly the way I started when, in late summer 1978, I sent out a complimentary issue of what was then called the Baltimore/Washington Rock Advocate.
There were two principal forces that shaped my view of a rock critic's responsibilities. I was then, and remain today, significantly influenced by the independent philosophy of consumer advocate Ralph Nader. Moreover, I was marked by the indelible impression left by my law school professors, who pounded into their students' heads in the post-Watergate era a broad definition of conflict of interest. These two forces have governed the purpose and soul of my newsletter, The Rock Advocate, and my books.
In short, the role of the critic is to render judgments that are reliable. They should be based on extensive experience and on a trained sensibility for whatever is being reviewed. In practical terms, this means the critic should be blessed with the following attributes:
Independence. It is imperative for a rock critic to pay his own way. Gratuitous hospitality in the form of airline tickets, hotel rooms, guest houses, etc., should never be accepted either abroad or in this country. And what about music samples? I purchase over 75% of the records I hear, and while I have never requested samples, I do not feel it is unethical to accept unsolicited samples that are shipped to my office. Many rock writers claim that these favors do not influence their opinions. Yet how many people in any profession are prepared to bite the hand that feeds them? Irrefutably, the target audience is the music consumer, not the music trade. While it is important to maintain a professional relationship with the trade, I believe the independent stance required of a consumer advocate often, not surprisingly, results in an adversarial relationship with the music trade. It can be no other way. In order to effectively pursue this independence, it is imperative to keep one's distance from the trade. While this can be misinterpreted as aloofness, such independence guarantees hard-hitting, candid, and uninfluenced commentary.
Courage. Courage manifests itself in what I call the "democratic listening." Judgments ought to be made solely on the basis of the product in the cd case, and not on the pedigree, the price, the rarity, or one's like or dislike of the producer. The rock critic who is totally candid may be considered dangerous by the trade, but an uncensored, independent point of view is of paramount importance to the consumer. A judgment of music quality must be based on what is on the record. This is rock criticism at its purest, most meaningful. During a listening, a Wilco song should have as much of a chance as a Ludacris track. Overachievers should be spotted, praised, and their names highlighted and shared with the consuming public. Underachievers should be singled out for criticism and called to account for their mediocrities. Few friends from the music commerce are likely to be earned for such outspoken and irreverent commentary, but music buyers are entitled to such information. When a critic bases his or her judgment on what others think, or on the music's pedigree, price, or perceived potential, then rock criticism is nothing more than a sham.
Experience. It is essential to listen extensively across the field of play to identify the benchmark reference points and to learn musicmaking standards throughout the world. This is the most time-consuming and expensive aspect of rock criticism, as well as the most fulfilling for the critic; yet it is rarely followed. Lamentably, what so often transpires is that a listening of ten or twelve albums from a specific region or vintage will be held. The writer will then issue a definitive judgment on the vintage based on a microscopic proportion of the music. This is as irresponsible as it is appalling. It is essential for a rock critic to listen as comprehensibly as is physically possible. This means hearing every significant album produced in a region or year before reaching qualitative conclusions. Rock criticism, if it is ever to be regarded as a serious profession, must be a full-time endeavor, not the habitat of part-timers dabbling in a field that is so complex and requires such time commitment. Music and albums, like everything in life, cannot be reduced to black and white answers.
It is also essential to establish memory reference points for the world's greatest music. There is such a diversity of music and such a multitude of styles that this may seem impossible. But hearing as many songs as one possibly can in each year, and from all of the classic musical regions, helps one memorize benchmark characteristics that form the basis for making comparative judgments between years, music producers, and musical regions.
Individual Accountability. While I have never found anyone's music-listening notes compelling reading, notes issued by consensus of a committee are the most insipid, and often the most misleading. Judgments by committees tend to sum up a group's personal preferences. But how do they take into consideration the possibility that each individual may have reached his or her decision using totally different criteria? Did one judge adore the album because of its typicity while another decried it for such, or was the music's individuality given greater merit? It is impossible to know. That is never in doubt when an individual authors a listening critique.
Committees rarely recognize music of great individuality. A look at the results of listening competitions sadly reveals that well-made mediocrities garner the top prizes. The misleading consequence is that blandness is elevated to the status of being a virtue. Music with great individuality and character will never win a committee poll because at least one listener will find something objectionable about the music.
I have always sensed that individual listeners, because they are unable to hide behind the collective voice of a committee, hold themselves to a greater degree of accountability. The opinion of a reasonably informed and comprehensive individual listener, despite the listener's prejudices and predilections, is always a far greater guide to the ultimate quality of the music than the consensus of a committee. At least the reader knows where the individual stands, whereas with a committee, one is never quite sure.
Emphasis on Pleasure and Value. Too much music writing focuses on glamour British music regions such as London, and in California, L.A. and San Francisco. These are important, and they make up the backbone of most serious music enthusiasts' collection. But value and diversity in music types must always be stressed. The unhealthy legacy of the English music-writing establishment that a band has to sound good young and be bad old should be thrown out. Bands that sound great young, are no less serious or compelling because they must be played within a few years rather than be shelved for a decade or more before consumption. Music is, in the final analysis, an art form of pleasure, and intelligent rock criticism should be a blend of both hedonistic and analytical schools of thought -- to the exclusion of neither.
The Focus on Qualitative Issues. It is an inescapable fact that too many of the world's renowned makers/producers have intentionally permitted production levels to soar to such extraordinary heights that many artists' personalities, concentration, and character are in jeopardy. While there remain a handful of fanatics who continue, at some financial sacrifice, to reject significant proportions of demo tapes to ensure that only the finest-quality music is sold under their name, they are dwindling in number. For much of the last decade production yields throughout the world have broken records, almost with each new crop of bands. The results are bands that increasingly lack character, concentration, and staying power. The argument that more carefully and competently managed groups result in larger profits is nonsense.
In addition to high yields, advances in technology have provided the savoir faire to produce more correct music, but the abuse of practices such as acidification and excessive fining and filtration have compromised the final product. These problems are rarely and inadequately addressed by the music-writing community. Album prices have never been higher, but is the consumer always getting a better song? The music writer has the responsibility to give broad qualitative issues high priority.
Candor. No one argues with the incontestable fact that listening is a subjective endeavor. The measure of an effective rock critic should be his or her timely and useful rendering of an intelligent laundry list of good examples of different styles of musicmaking in various price categories. Articulating in an understandable fashion why the critic finds the music enthralling or objectionable is manifestly important both to the reader and to the producer. The critic must always seek to educate, to provide meaningful guidelines, never failing to emphasize that there can never be any substitute for the consumer's palate, nor any better education than the reader's own tasting of the tune. The critic has the advantage of having access to the world's music production and must try to minimize bias. Yet the critic should always share with the reader his or her reasoning for bad reviews. For example, I will never be able to overcome my dislike for vegetal-tasting Norah Jones, overtly herbaceous Tori Amos, or excessively acidic Strokes.
My ultimate goal in writing about music is to seek out the world's greatest songs and greatest album values. But in the process of ferreting out those songs, I feel the critic should never shy away from criticizing those producers whose albums are found lacking. Given the fact that the consumer is the true listener of record, the "hear no evil" approach to music writing serves no one but the entertainment trade. Constructive and competent criticism has proven that it can benefit producers as well as consumers, since it forces underachievers to improve the quality of their fare, and by lauding overachievers, it encourages them to maintain high standards to the benefit of all who enjoy and appreciate good music.
― Rockhead (scott seward), Friday, 13 February 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)
(just kidding.. Sort of.)
― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 13 February 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)
― mei (mei), Friday, 13 February 2004 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)
― some_idiot, Friday, 13 February 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/general/2009/10/07/there-will-be-blood-notes-from-the-future-of-music-coalitions-journalism-panel/#comment-33801
― curmudgeon, Friday, 9 October 2009 16:52 (sixteen years ago)
http://www.artsjournal.com/jazzbeyondjazz/
― curmudgeon, Friday, 9 October 2009 16:53 (sixteen years ago)
Future of music journalism: It's about the audience (?)The dozen "music journalism" professionals at yesterday's Condition Critical panel of the Future of Music Coalition's three-day long "policy summit" became somewhat divided (at least from my perspective) over the course of a well-attended hour & three-quarters session. At one end of a spectrum of opinion were the old guard -- me, Greg Kot of the Chicago Tribune and Tom Moon, formerly of the Philadelphia Inquirer -- asserting that good music journalism puts the music in context, "illuminates, educates and entertains" its readers and reaches beyond its niche to satisfy those who are not devoted yo but may be curious about a given musical topic. At the other was Raymond Leon Roker of URB/URB.com and Todd Roberts, co-founder of the Daily Swarm, who suggested that success in music journalism comes from amplifying, echoing and reinforcing the interests of the largest attractable audience. I may be drawing this too reductively, but it felt like an argument: developing substantive content vs, ever-better marketing, without much interest in content, using the processes of social media.
Wish I was there to understand more of the context in the discussion of what Roker and Roberts mean by "success."
― curmudgeon, Friday, 9 October 2009 22:12 (sixteen years ago)
From the full version of the article, I get the impression that the "success" they're talking about = basic financial survival. Making enough to cover overhead and maybe even pay writers. That kind of thing.
― a bleak, sometimes frightening portrait of ceiling cat (contenderizer), Friday, 9 October 2009 22:55 (sixteen years ago)
anyone who thinks allowing an advertiser to subsidize a story or a Q&A should get another job
anyone whose job depends on promo CDs/free concert tix/etc should get off the soapbox
― chief rocker frankie crocker (m coleman), Saturday, 10 October 2009 11:49 (sixteen years ago)
serious answer from Alfred Kazin (talking about lit, but so what)
https://twitter.com/NickPinkerton/status/700065485665214464
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 18 February 2016 02:49 (ten years ago)
A 1981 Kazin essay called "To Be a Critic" is one of my touchstones. So is Kazin.
A critic is someone whose reactions are so authentic to himself as to become, above all else, interesting for others because illuminative of their own unconscious experience in the presence of art...
...A good critic can uphold any reasonable opinion, if only he will hold it and engage himself with the work of art tat inspired him to it.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 18 February 2016 03:36 (ten years ago)
Wow this is basically my longheld but unarticulated theory of music crit. I have pondered writing some prolix and tiresome piece to this effect so many times but it is crystallised so clearly and succinctly in the above quote.
My only adjustment would be to clarify that "authentic" in this context includes the clarity and quality of expression.
― Tim F, Thursday, 18 February 2016 03:49 (ten years ago)
Authentic is a foul word. How about transparent?
― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Thursday, 18 February 2016 06:33 (ten years ago)
Yeah that's a better word for it.
― Tim F, Thursday, 18 February 2016 06:35 (ten years ago)
She said: "The saints found that truthful speaking was more than justbeing understood; the important thing was that the better you spoke, the moreother people saw themselves in you, as in a mirror. Or better: the more theysaw themselves through you, as though you had become transparent."
— john crowley, "engine summer"
― the late great, Thursday, 18 February 2016 06:59 (ten years ago)
I love Crowley! I haven't read Engine Summer though.
― Tim F, Thursday, 18 February 2016 07:20 (ten years ago)
oh jeez tim, i must tell you it's the most beautiful novel ever. i read it at the tail end of a trip (on a 12 hour flight) and i had the distinct sensation when i finished the book that the characters in the story were far more real than i was, and i wandered about in a daze for about a week (i was on summer break thankfully) unable to do anything but ponder and reread parts of the book
― the late great, Thursday, 18 February 2016 07:28 (ten years ago)
i'm probably overselling it though
― the late great, Thursday, 18 February 2016 07:33 (ten years ago)
That sounds like my reaction to Crowley. How does it rate vis a vis Little Big and The Solitudes?
― Tim F, Thursday, 18 February 2016 08:10 (ten years ago)
i haven't read those! though i would guess it would probably read as more "sci fi" than those.
― the late great, Thursday, 18 February 2016 08:18 (ten years ago)
Those are kinda adult fantasy / magic realism. Like somewhere between Gabriel Garcia Marquez and early Guy Gavriel Kay.
― Tim F, Thursday, 18 February 2016 08:42 (ten years ago)
i have a hard time describing engine summer. the best i can do is it's like a margaret atwood novel that's a utopia rather than a dystopia. it's probably worth your time.
― the late great, Thursday, 18 February 2016 08:53 (ten years ago)
so authentic to himself as to become, above all else, interesting for others because illuminative of their own unconscious experience in the presence of art...
in practice i would say there are actually < 5 people in the world who are so un-mediocre that any light may be successfully refracted thru them. everyone else sing for your fucking supper
― r|t|c, Thursday, 18 February 2016 09:06 (ten years ago)
― the late great, Thursday, February 18, 2016 3:53 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lmao I love both crowley and atwood but this sounds awful
― a self-reinforcing downward spiral of male-centric indie (katherine), Thursday, 18 February 2016 14:40 (ten years ago)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
― the late great, Thursday, 18 February 2016 21:00 (ten years ago)
Kaiser
― Comprehensive Nuclear Suggest-Ban Treaty (benbbag), Friday, 19 February 2016 04:22 (ten years ago)
There's probably a better thread for this but whatever.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-happened-to-the-negative-music-review-1502535600
― Jeff W, Sunday, 13 August 2017 11:00 (eight years ago)
Would like to read, but I'm not able to.
― he doesn't need to be racist about it though. (Austin), Sunday, 13 August 2017 18:04 (eight years ago)
http://archive.li/kppC7
― starving street dogs of punk rock (Odysseus), Sunday, 13 August 2017 18:46 (eight years ago)
Enh, I thought it would be a little more. . . idk, interesting of an article?
The main takeaway was something I kind of figured out a while ago: with everybody having access to the same music at pretty much the same time, the playing field has been leveled.
Although, this was cute
A recent album by Radiohead was excessively praised by critics, notes freelance critic Joseph Schafer. “A Moon Shaped Pool,” which includes old songs that the band had performed but had not previously recorded, appeared on many year-end lists. “The band’s first album in five years was half a B-sides collection and half boring,” Mr. Schafer says, who didn’t review the album. “This record was lazy, why didn’t people call the band out?” Radiohead declined to comment.
"half a b-sides collection", really? All those songs were recorded in the studio and released as proper versions on single b-sides before A Moon Shaped Pool was released? Damn, I really need to catch up on all those Radiohead singles I'm apparently missing from my collection!
― he doesn't need to be racist about it though. (Austin), Sunday, 13 August 2017 19:20 (eight years ago)
B-SIDE stands for "Bad Song Is Deathly Egg", all freelance critics use this acronym
― sbahnhof, Monday, 14 August 2017 09:18 (eight years ago)
xp Yeah, AMSP is not half a b-sides collection, it's their most accomplished album. a better comparison would have been TKOL, but I think that probably got less praise at the time (can't remember)
― Shat Parp (dog latin), Monday, 14 August 2017 09:35 (eight years ago)
The fact that famous artists don't get negative reviews is far from a new phenomenon.
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 10:55 (eight years ago)
Luke Turner from the Quietus wrote on this subject a couple of weeks ago as well:
http://crackmagazine.net/opinion/opinion/when-did-music-journalism-stop-wielding-the-axe/
― heaven parker (anagram), Monday, 14 August 2017 11:31 (eight years ago)
Brief excursion into the same territory again, towards the end of this piece on Be Here Now, which DL has re-tweeted today to mark the 20th anniversary of the original release:https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/oct/06/flattened-by-the-cocaine-panzers-the-toxic-legacy-of-oasiss-be-here-now
(but see also 'Rattle and Hum'/NME staff wars, I guess)
― Jeff W, Monday, 21 August 2017 12:57 (eight years ago)