[meta] How Well-Known Is ILM?

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In the 'biz' or among 'rock critics' I suppose?

This is essentially a very self-indulgent question, but I don't have any real idea what the answer is. I was talking to Anna at the Friday FAP and was expressing my bafflement (and sort-of pride and sort-of worry) that this thing is as busy and long-lasting and - despite everything - high-quality as it is (I mean yes there are a lot of shit threads but the difference between ILM and a lot of other forums is that there are good ones too*). But I don't know how 'big' it is - I don't even know how many regular visitors it has.

*particularly in the last couple of months - Rough Guides, CDRs, some good funny ones, the Pazz/Jop/Consensus/Feminism stuff, Grime in 04, etc etc.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I want to know how many P&J voters have posted on here at one time or other, esp. with recent posts by Kandia Crazy Horse, Daphne Carr, JD Considine, Franklin Bruno, etc. etc. etc.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

How are we meant to judge? This is a serious question.

I suppose that just looking at who posts etc, then you could say it must be relatively well-known amongst 'rock critics'. In that it seems a lot of people here actually bloody write about music and even get paid for doing so.

NB: would the (at times) snide attitude towards some critics/ways of writing almost keep ILM separate and less well-known? Or more well-known?

― Jim Robinson (Original Miscreant), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure how we're meant to judge! If I can't get much of an impression and I've been here since the beginning then I don't suppose anyone else can either.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

SOOOOOOOOO FUCKINGGGGGGGGG HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE...

Well, Hundred Reasons' guitarist got bitchy at us, anyhow, which is some form of fame anyhow.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i always think of the simpsons.

hey we can put it on the internet.

no .. no .. we want people whose opinions matter!!

― jimmy the doomed saint, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I have always wondered how big ILM actually is. No moderator has ever answered the question as to how much traffic this site actually gets. Between lurkers and posters, how many people float through here in a day?

― Former Supposed So Called Nihilist Teenage Drug Disco Addiction Counselor (mjt), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The thing about peoples opinions who matter is a good point. This forum might be too concerned with the opinions of people who 'matter', this doesnt strike me as a good thing. I'm not sure being an industry thing is a positive thing

Why not put a sitemeter thing on the front page. I think volume of traffic is the best arbiter.

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I said, "oh I saw something on a messageboard the other day..." to an acquaintance the other day, and they said "Was it I Love Music?" and I thought, "Woah! ILX R HUGE!"

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

(oh and she is "in the biz" so I guess this is relevant as to Tom's question)

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

One way of looking at how big ILM is looking at the competition, and how well they are known

CMJ [linked to College Music Journal publication - therefore has brand recognition, but splits music up into genre areas. Therefore becomes self contained.]

Onetouchmusic [some similarity to ILM, but more British focused, and more ex 90s readers of Vox/ Select/ Melody Maker / The Lizard/ Muzik etc]

Radio Mute [very diverse, but a lot less known than ILM, however unlike ILM divides music into loose genre categories therefore similar to CMJ]

BBC Collective
[mostly British men in their 20s/ early 30s who listen to Radio 1 programs such as One World/ Breezeblock/ Blue Room/ Mixing It/ Peel etc]

PFMSmackdown [sort of tied to Pitchfork therefore mostly American, focus on independent labels: probably mostly in their 20s]

All of these are a lot smaller than ILM: being focused to the readers of a particular webzine
Dusted Magazine - Forum
Junkmedia
themilkfactory Forum
Musique Machine

these are lesser known than ILM:
Sequential Randomist
Sound Opinions
You are talking too loud

Specialist:
Jester Records [music covered Terrorizer mag meets The Wire: excellent music interests but preaching to the converted, not a good user interface]

Progressive Ears [specialising in progressive music: progressive rock/ some post rock/ ambient/ dark metal, fusion/ avant jazz etc]

there are many other specialist boards: covering those with specific interests in dance, ambient, jazz, metal etc

The advantages of ILM over all the above are:
[a] diversity of music covered - on one board - nothing off limits, many different people with different music interests/ ideas/ backgrounds
[b] usability and speed of the ILM web infrastructure/ simple design but very effective

in many ways ILM: has become the replacement of A.M.A - but has developed a much broader focus

the growth of ILM, from blogs/ to many critics/ writers - therefore it has grown through word of mouth/ reputation.

[also how many of the above music boards are directly linked by rockcritics.com?]

answer: only ILM
http://rockcriticslinks.blogspot.com/

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

according to the users info: ILM has had 521 active users making posts over the past 30 days.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd imagine the opinions as a whole of ILM are written off and not taken entirely seriously, but I might be wrong.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, well-respected is a different thing.

I suppose I'm interested in ILM's 'reputation' too.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

well known ? too well known ? i get fed up with one liners as thread titles sometimes -- threads seem universally less meta the more threads there are, and maybe less meta-questions than a few years ago. Dilution vs. deluge, more equals less, who knows ?
But i'm no dude, more a verbose old bore (which is "rock" these days, right ?).

the databasing and categorisation, the music-minded web interface that has been set up to deliver diversity of opinion in the one place, it's the greatest virtue imho.

i wish some of the earliest posters would still post more too (or at least re-re-id themselves) -- so many threads is both blessing and discouraging, yet the setup seems as formal as it should be for loose-lipped music culture, but i hope size does not denigrate whatever reputation ILM has for reliability.

and new developements like rough guides shows that ILM has not stagnated into just those early categories (however comprehensive they still were).
(a rough guide to those sometimes cryptic category filing decisions and the categories themselves would take the fun out of them.)

20 years ago my small nz town had a second (evening) paper and back then that paper could afford it's own _full-time_ rock critic -- letters to the critic and editor were rather restricted -- ILMs so-democratic centralised setup (people could use more hyperlinks around here, DJ Martian providing excellent example upthread) feels like a poll at times, with heartfelt consumer/collector opinion now acknowledged as cornerstone of (yuk) 'the music industry' -- the free spirit of the '60s finally actualised as one of several virtual communes, but _no_ _gurus_ -- now-music vs. then-music is another good stab at monolithic industry practises.

cultural literacy (such an essential element of 21stCent. parlance and values) has to benefit from all of this.

― george gosset (gegoss), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:37 (twenty-two years ago)

No moderator has ever answered the question as to how much traffic this site actually gets. Between lurkers and posters, how many people float through here in a day?

That's cause they don't know about ~~love~~ such things.

For more numbers and other oddities you can view the users page or the Log which is always interesting.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I know *mere mortals* such as myself really don't contribute much intelligence to the ilm hive mind, but I just want to say what an incredible opportunity and privelege it is to read the opinions and "smackdowns" of the rock-critic community!

― Jole (Jole), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 05:21 (twenty-two years ago)

as an outsider & lurker i tried to get several people involved in the same record store / local promotion / radio scene into ilm and failed because there are plenty of alternatives for things like this.

i think there are many many more people who prefer staying in a little genre box than the type who are seriously interested in both top 40 and way obscure stuff.

― mig, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

ok. newbie Q (only been here for 3 months) : "P&J" ?? seen this elsewhere but cant figure the fragger out.

― mark e (mark e), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

P&J=Pazz & Jop: annual Village Voice poll of music critics.

I only heard of Pazz & Jop some time in the last ten years myself (and I'm 38).

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Village Voice=free New York city weekly paper with bohemian roots.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I misread that as "bohemian robots" and didn't even blink = I'VE BEEN HERE TOO LONG

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Oldie q: didn't there used to be another mark e ? Is there any way we can get a definitive tally on the Marks and Alexes of ILM ? I want to know how many there've been.

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

eek. soz. wasn't aware i had trod on someones toes. the login registration didn't complain re me grabbing 'mark e'. not sure if i have seen any other 'mark e' posts other than my own .. if someone else (other than that Smith bloke who i need to have words with) then by all means reclaim the title .. i wont be too upset .. (much)

― mark e (mark e), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't worry, I'm probably mistaken. Being new here you're probably not aware of the long, proud tradition of Marks you now follow in.

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

well i have been around for a few months and no-one has given me a knocking for it so far . ta for making me nervous about the Inheritance Aspect. I will face the challenge to the best of my ability ..

― mark e (mark e), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Eh, yer doin' fine.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there any way we can get a definitive tally on the Marks and Alexes of ILM ?

And the Nicks and Jims...

― Jim Robinson (Original Miscreant), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm Sparticus!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm Spartacus in NYC!

― Jim Robinson (Original Miscreant), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry.

― Jim Robinson (Original Miscreant), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

So Alex is just a screen name then?

― mei (mei), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm Spasticus! I'm Spasticus! I'm Spasticus Autisticus!

― jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(apologies to ~~ian dury~~ everyone)

― jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Would you prefer it if ILM was more 'elite' as opposed to more 'popular'? And how true is the idea that if more people start reading then the less good it all gets?

This is a genuine question - I've only been around for a relatively short time so it'd be interesting what you thought.

― Jim Robinson (Original Miscreant), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Can I get a calculation of how many Ian Dury jokes are on ilm average yearly, please, we need more, thank you.

― scott m (mcd), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Hit me with your statistiques.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Would you prefer it if ILM was more 'elite' as opposed to more 'popular'? And how true is the idea that if more people start reading then the less good it all gets?

No, for a # of reasons. Most important among them is that I am not elite. But, hey, who knows? Maybe I (anyone) could be someday with the aid of ilx and likeminded syndicates.

I think us randoms help mix it up and make it more interesting. The more people that read the more people that are potentially hyper-interested in music and we should all want that.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I kind of like the views of people who aren't hyper-interested in music.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

there are a few well known lurkers i really really wish would post or post more

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

name names, blount!

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha! D4stoor you FORCED scott m to set it up for you like that, didn't you?

― OleM (OleM), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the fact that we are all pretty much equal. Although some of us publish and can write well, everyone can chime in and influence the thoughts of writers and posters around the world.

Its a great viral system that can occassionally hip people to things they would have never heard of or thought of before.

― hector (hector), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I like hipping you, Hector (because I have no hips).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

ain't that the truth!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:33 (twenty-two years ago)

ouch.

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Ew, Blount's a voyeur.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I am a complete nobody. I try to hang with you all, but I really just can't.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - ned has pegged me correctly

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

um, not that way

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm. *rubs chin*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:37 (twenty-two years ago)

hipping me?

That sounds slightly obscene?

and debito c'mon you can hang.

― hector (hector), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i have enough hips for me and ned both

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Buffalo Jess from "Silence Of The Lambs"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I am a complete nobody. I try to hang with you all, but I really just can't. -- Debito

...debito ergo sum?

*makes hisself invisible*

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:43 (twenty-two years ago)

ergo sum?

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Thank you for that image, Dan.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 19 February 2004 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

in case you couldn't tell, i was being sarcastic.
/Homer

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 19 February 2004 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

A song by Sparks was where i first heard the expression "launch a thousand hips", but i like this upthread re-coin. A charging herd of muddy hips may not fit any of the holes pidgeons and poster-people like to file musics in, but that's fine by me.
Not that i want the rock critics charged down and gored to death, and no rugby games either (please), but the critics shouldn't be afraid of the hips' muddy habits.

― george gosset (gegoss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

think of a habit as a black turtle-neck

― george gosset (gegoss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 05:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i heart [meta]george!

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 19 February 2004 05:22 (twenty-two years ago)

To answer Jim's qn, I am happy with ILM becoming more popular or staying the same - the only thing I wouldn't like is for it to become more popular by way of some big thing (Q magazine for instance) linking to it or talking about it and for a host of new posters with quite well-defined and similar tastes to come in and unbalance things.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 19 February 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

haha too late!

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 19 February 2004 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

i have enough hips for me and ned both

I never expected this thread to take such a slash fiction turn.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 19 February 2004 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a strange world, this thread.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

mark e from "ireallylovemusic" - aren't you a long-time poster here??

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:18 (twenty-two years ago)

if all threads were like this one, you wouldn't really have to worry about too many more people showing up.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

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