Jim Steinman productions - search/destroy

That said, I hear a lot of stuff that could really use his touch. Stuff that really is begging to be bombastic but just has no clue how to approach bombast ridiculously (and hugely) enough.

Did Steinman ever do *anything* that wasn't "monstrously overblown"?

D: Sisters of Mercy. Not that I actually know what part of their oeuvre JS had anything to do with or have listened to all of it but they're worthless anyway.

D: Fire, Inc., "Tonight is What it Means to be Young"

Also search Bonnie Tyler's "Holding Out for a Hero", which is even more insane than I remembered. It's some of the oddest drum programming a hit song's ever had, particularly the minute of cascading sixteenth-note kick drums.

Holy shit, this is no joke. I guess I'd never really objectively paid attention to the details. It's like Steinman got a new toy and put all the settings on MAX.

D: Fire, Inc., "Tonight is What it Means to be Young"

― J (Jay), Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:08 AM (fifteen years ago)

Absolutely love this song. That and Pandora's Box - "It's All Coming Back To Me Now" (really need that album someday).

Got his own album Bad For Good this week, surprised it has stayed in print. Positive that Rundgren is doing backing vocals like in Meat Loaf. Enjoying it so far but I doubt I'll ever be a complete Steinman fan. But I'm really in the mood for this kind of thing now.

Love this album. Must be the second best song called "Surf's Up".

"Dance in My Pants" is the only song I'm not completely into, but there is a lot of fun parts.

Pandora's Box next.

There's a night of cover bands coming up with locals playing as Meat Loaf, Patsy Cline, the Bee Gees, and My Bloody Valentine. I think this was curated just for me.

Love the description of a guitar's voice being like a "horny angel".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTOtCoVqgbs

Surprised/not surprised that Steinman was involved in that one Take That song I like: "Never Forget"

My estimation of Bad For Good keeps rising.

I'd never consciously listened to "Holding Out for a Hero" before. It made me think of "The Past Is a Grotesque Animal" lol

I always thought he produced Bat Out of Hell, but that was Todd Rundgren?

Yes

I really wish he'd found it way for "Tonight is What it Means to be Young" to be 20 minutes long.

recently found a skinny promo of the reissue of 'pandoras box' in the archive.
it's very full on.
i enjoyed it a lot more than i expected to.

Chris Molanphy's most recent Hit Parade last Friday was on The Man And His Work:

https://slate.com/podcasts/hit-parade/2020/10/jim-steinman-made-plethora-of-pompous-pop

It is of course a great listen.

Looking forward to that.

That clip of an early Steinman performance with the words "turn around bright eyes" really taken me aback, I found the full song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcOcXtuZwcI

Really enjoyed that two-part Hit Parade podcast despite not being into most of the music. I stayed hoping for a Sisters of Mercy segment and was not disappointed.

What's the easiest way to listen to the second episode?

I just found it on their feed via Google podcasts.

Yeah, for some reason it can't be downloaded from their website, and even the transcript 404s, and they don't respond to enquiries - you have to find the RSS feed, which they also don't publish on the website, and iirc Firefox won't even display the code, so you have to paste it into a feed reader.

massive Spencer Krug / Moonface vibes

Really enjoying Pandora's Box - Original Sin so far, title track is spectacular and of course so is "It's All Coming Back To Me Now".

The woman's rant about about dating is fantastic and Steinman's voice at the start of the track about mirrors is so odd, sounds like it needed another take?

Seems like there's only 6 or 7 albums fully written by Steinman, doesn't seem like enough. Looking through all his projects is a pain, an anthology box set might be nice.

Original Sin is quite uneven but the aforementioned tracks are really great, "My Little Red Book" has a fun version too.

Anyone else heard it?

"Holding Out For A Hero" features in this documentary on the Top Of The Pops/the UK pop charts in 1985 (saw it this weekend when the BBC repeated it) - not sure why they're calling it a power "ballad" tho:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXUYEL3vHtY

it's the four minutes from 23:32 - do watch until the very end of the section, it's worth it!

(the (non-Steinman-related) rest of it is an interesting watch too, I think, but ymmv)

RIP Jim Steinman.

Sad to hear this. I was wondering if that Dream Machine project was going to go anywhere.

i looked this thread up the other day bc i recently heard bad for good for the first time. awesome record. rip

absolute legend, gonna crank Bat Out of Hell and finally get into the solo stuff

guy had a real talent for translating teen horniness into intense metaphysical psychodramas that did not know the meaning of the word "overblown," and his gift for melody made these weird unwieldy campy sagas of intense loneliness and lust into legit hits over, what, the length of like two decades? god bless him. one throughline of my taste from childhood to adulthood is that jim steinman productions have always completely captivated me

yeah I listened to Bat Out of Hell incessantly from a very young age, long before I even understood what the songs were even "about", just blown away by the scope, the imagery, and the sheer DGAF bombast. it made every other record sound like it was in 2D.

like he actually managed to live up to that all-time awesome cover art which should not even be possible

forget Pet Sounds, this is the only teenage symphony to God fucking recognized in this house

I need to spend more time with Bat Out of Hell II, the use of "Objects in the Rear View..." in How To With John Wilson gave me a new love for that song

he made every tackle at the sound of the whistle and he made all the stadiums rock

The first thing I do when I hit a new karaoke joint is check to see if they have "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad"

As I mentioned in the RIP thread, Streets of Fire is a must-watch for Steinman-heads. I think he only did two songs for the movie but boy oh boy are they shit-hot musical numbers.

wow you were not lying these songs RULE

RIP to a real one. OL absolutely bang on about his contributions to the Streets of Fire soundtrack, those tunes are killer.

Both parts of the Hit Parade episode on him are available so

https://slate.com/podcasts/hit-parade/2020/10/jim-steinman-made-plethora-of-pompous-pop

glad to see jim steinman get some love. people always talk about the campy aspect of his collaborations with meat loaf -- and it's true, they did dial it up to 11 -- but there was pathos and genius in those songs too. i am interested now in checking out this other stuff too.

Edited from https://jimsteinman.com/Q&AwithJim4.htm:

--

JS - Meanwhile, he didn't know I knew the script because the title song, Streets Of Fire, is Bruce Springsteen, and John Landau was going to be my manager at that point. So I knew John and I knew the script. I saw it on his desk and I asked him about it, and he said, "oh it's a piece of crap. They wanted to use Bruce's song. We won't give them it, no way. It's a bad script".

... So I read the script. It was a terrible script. But it was Joel Silver, a big movie producer's first movie. So I met all these people for the first time, Joel Silver, who was a maniac. I was out in LA the whole time 'cause I was doing Footloose, too, two movies. Footloose I was sure was gonna be a disaster. I didn't even care about it, and that was a hit. I thought Streets Of Fire would be the biggest thing of all time.

And it was a big flop, even though it's become a cult movie and it's a cool movie to watch. It was cool 'cause Steven Spielberg would come to the set everyday 'cause he considered the director, Walter Hill, to be the best action director in the world. It has amazing action with motorcycles. But I learned a lot and one of the things that was interesting was Jimmy (Iovine) goes, "I don't know what to do as a music supervisor but, you know, I think this is gonna be the way to get a hundred million dollars, I really do."

I said, "but what about the script Jimmy? You know, it really stinks." He says, "the script? No, I don't think that's that important." And Joel was there and he says, Joel "what do you think? Is the script any good?" [AS JOEL SILVER] "The script? I don't know if the script's any good. It's not about that. It's about the visuals. Wait 'til you see the action, the visuals. This movie is about visuals. It's about excitement, it's about thrills. Don't worry about the script."

I remember mentioning it to six or seven people that the script was trashy and I always got the same answer. The script? I'm sure no one read the script. The script doesn't matter. This movie is about visuals. It's action, it's like a Spielberg movie. I say, all right, all right, all right. Then we go to the first edit, the first cut of the movie in the screening room and it's Iovine and me and Joel Silver. We're all sitting there and we're all excited to see the first cut.

And it starts. I remember Joel Silver, who impressed me, Joel Silver goes, "here we go, the adventure begins". It was we were like three little kids and Iovine goes, "yeah this is it. Hundred million dollars. Hundred million dollars, I know it." And it starts, and about 20 minutes into the movie Jimmy turns to me and he goes, "Steinman you know about art and that kind of stuff, movies, theater, right?" I said, "well yeah I know something." He says, "this movie is really shitty isn't it? It's really bad".

I said, "Yeah, it's a really bad script. Why didn't anyone notice that the script was bad? It stinks. I can't even watch it. I'm never gonna make a hundred million dollars from this movie." Joel's on the other side going, "what am I gonna do next? There's gotta be a next project…", and they're sitting there and there's so many lessons I learned during that movie. It went $14 million over budget, I think, and I kept saying to Joel, "how are they allowing this?"

'Cause they kept screaming at us, "it's over the budget." You've gotta understand, they built - Walter Hill didn't want to go to Chicago. The story took place in Chicago, so they built Chicago in LA. They built this enormous elevated train, the City of Chicago, and the biggest tarp ever to cover an outdoor area, two square miles of tarp to cover all of Chicago. I remember saying to Joel, how can they let you go $14 million over budget?

Joel says, "You've got a lot to learn about Hollywood. Come over here. Let me show you something." He goes to the tarp and he says, "two square miles tarp right?" I said, "yeah, the biggest tarp ever created. I read that". He said, "Take a look. Open that flap". I open the flap. He says, "What does it say?" Property of Superior Hardware, California. "You know who owns Superior Hardware? Universal. Take a look at...", and he took me all around the set.

Everything of course was owned by Universal, and they were paying extra rentals to the company that was financing the movie. It was a good lesson about Hollywood, why things go over budget, from Joel himself, the master of it. The funniest thing was they couldn't use the Springsteen song in the end, Streets Of Fire. So I had to write another song. Jimmy ended up, he's such a cool guy and such a master of what he does, that he blamed me for them not having the final song.

They were convinced they'd have the Springsteen song. I remember them saying, "We're definitely gonna have the Springsteen song, right Jimmy?" He says, "Yeah are you kidding? It's a cinch. I'm that close with Bruce. I did Born To Run. I know John Landau. If I have to I'll make a call to Walter Yetnikof, the president. I know what to do. It's about people, connections." One week later, "Steinman, I'm screwed. Springsteen, what an idiot, he won't give me Streets Of Fire. We don't have any ending for the movie. You've gotta come up with a song, like in two days."

So I wrote this song that I loved and I sent it to them and he and Joel left me a great message saying, "I hate you, you bastard, I love this song. We're gonna have to do it. We're gonna have to re-build the Wiltern Theater", which they had taken down, it was a million dollars to re-do the ending. Just the ending of Streets Of Fire, 'cause they had already filmed Bruce Springsteen's song.

They spent a million dollars and I felt all his hostility from Universal. A guy named Sean Daniels who was head of production, one day said to me, "well there is hostility because we understand you waited about eight months to come up with that final song and you never did it". I said, "where'd you hear that? I did it in two days". He said, "Jimmy Iovine". So I went to Jimmy Iovine and I said all that to him, "Yeah it's true, I know. I blamed you but you can't be upset with me. I'm not like a writer. I've gotta make my way with these people. I had to have a scapegoat. I thought it was like honoring you to make you the scapegoat. You're not really mad are you?" I said, I guess not. He says, "Good yeah 'cause we've got a lot of work to do together." (laugh) I didn't mind it. It was always like when I went to see him in LA when he was first starting Interscope. He had just moved in the offices. I know I'm off topic but what the hell.

He moved into his offices in Interscope and he said, "Steinman sit in that chair right there". He made me sit like, exactly. He said, "don't move to the left, no don't move to the right. Sit there, don't, right there. Just keep it right there. Now don't move. I'm gonna play something. This is gonna freak you out. It's called Q Sound, a hundred million dollars, I'm telling you, a hundred million dollars. Listen to this. You're gonna hear Madonna singing in your right ear and crawling around your right ear, behind your head to your left ear. Wait 'til you hear this. Don't move! Don't move. I've gotta talk to Arnold Schwarzenegger on the phone, so I'll be busy, but just listen to this."

He puts on Madonna and she's doing what he said, and it finishes. He says, "what do you think? It's pretty amazing." I said, "I hate that." [AS JIMMY IOVINE] "You hate it?"

I said, "I don't want Madonna crawling around my ear and around the back of my head. I just don't want it. It's not sanitary, and it's not particularly aesthetically pleasing."

--

I was out in LA the whole time 'cause I was doing Footloose, too, two movies. Footloose I was sure was gonna be a disaster. I didn't even care about it, and that was a hit. I thought Streets Of Fire would be the biggest thing of all time.

this is, from what I've read/heard, steinman in a nutshell: he had very peculiar ideas about what could or should be popular, and he was wrong like 99% of the time, but that 1% >>>>>>>

there’s was a point a year or so ago where Bonnie Tyler crying out “I don’t know what to do/I’m always in the dark” hit me in that way the best depressing ABBA songs do. RIP to a legend.

yeah on the mark. that organ in the final section of the song, the way her voice gets more hoarse as the song goes on

The Spector who wasn't a rapey abusive murderer. An immense talent who was written off because of the camp aspects of BooH but Bad For Good is amazing and the Pandora's Box album is much better than reputation suggests.

camp is fundamentally american. fuck clement greenberg.

It's not sanitary, and it's not particularly aesthetically pleasing

Story of my life, Jim, story of my life.

i taught a lesson to 9th graders today about kitsch. there is a character in a juhmpa lahiri story who appreciates christian kitsch, to the horror of her husband, who likes tasteful decor and mahler. i taught them that this openness, this resistance to aesthetic snobbery, could be seen as a virtue, not a sign of the character's immaturity or whatever.

i planned this before i knew jim steinman died.

guy had a real talent for translating teen horniness into intense metaphysical psychodramas that did not know the meaning of the word "overblown," and his gift for melody made these weird unwieldy campy sagas of intense loneliness and lust into legit hits over, what, the length of like two decades? god bless him.

Solid description of how Springsteen worked at his best too.

Bonnie speaks

I am absolutely devastated to learn of the passing of my long term friend and musical mentor Jim Steinman. pic.twitter.com/TvR01AUXKr

— Bonnie Tyler (@BonnieTOfficial) April 20, 2021

http://nobilliards.blogspot.com/2021/02/meat-loaf-bat-out-of-hell-ii-back-into.html

Tyler getting to do "Total Eclipse" instead of Meat Loaf thanks to label fuckery was an accidental blessing. He rules, obviously, but she takes it to a level he wouldn't have even attempted.

interesting

My closest friend in Junior High School died. Jim Steinman, the creator of Meat Loaf and the songwriter for "Bat Out of Hell." I would go over to his house in Hewlett and listen to Wagner. Always planned to reconnect with him. I guess I waited too long.

— errolmorris (@errolmorris) April 22, 2021

Huh. It's always wild when paths cross like this.

Gates of Heaven meet Bat Out of Hell.

Meat remembers:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/meat-loaf-remembers-jim-steinman-1160041/

But we were never apart even though we were apart. We never lost each other. We also never sued each other, no matter what people write. It’s a fuckin’ lie to say otherwise. I never sued Jim. Jim never sued me. Our managers sued each other. But my heart never sued Jim. And I know Jim’s heart never sued me.

<3

yeah, that's a read and a half.
what an interview.

Wow

I don’t want to die, but I may die this year because of Jim. I’m always with him and he’s right here with me now. I’ve always been with Jim and Jim has always been with me.

We belonged heart and soul to each other. We didn’t know each other. We were each other.

honestly that is one of the most interesting interviews I've ever read

that was amazing. i fully cried at the end.

I recall reading an interview with Steinman in Kerrang or something years ago. He was saying that Meat Loaf had some difficulty in separating fact from fiction, like he'd be reminiscing about when the two of them would eat burgers at the beach and cruise around in a convertible and Jim would be saying "Meat, we never did that!", and Meat would convince himself it was true anyway. So I'd take anything he says with a pinch of salt, but I think he does get to some kind of emotional truth in what he's saying. Also I'd forgotten he sang on a Ted Nugent album!

Total Eclipse of the Heart is a killer karaoke number btw, if you're feeling brave.

Buy Jim's house. It's still on the market, originally at $10 million after his death, now down to either $3 million with all his stuff or $1.5 million without. In viewing the relevant site's photos, there's a lot going on.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/22-Ketcham-Rd_Ridgefield_CT_06877_M42608-34841

Steinman was a neighbor to Meat Loaf? I know meatloaf lived in Ridgefield, Connecticut very close to me.

if you buy the house but don't buy the stuff, what are you even doing with your life?

but also, damn, how many years has that thing been on the market???

Had no idea Steinman produced Floodland & Vision Thing!

I don’t want to die, but I may die this year because of Jim. I’m always with him and he’s right here with me now. I’ve always been with Jim and Jim has always been with me.

he died nine months later :(

xp iirc he only worked on two tracks on Floodland, and one on Vision Thing.

Yeah but the Vision Thing track is an actual Steinman song, reworked from his failed Batman musical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99gjG2BU_f8

Haha, holy shit.

The Sisters of Mercy song came first?

Around 2001, Steinman was working with singer Karine Hannah. Plans to make an album with her were eventually abandoned. The songs on these demos are "Safe Sex", "Making Love Out of Nothing at All", "Is Nothing Sacred" and "Braver Than We Are".[85] Steinman also recorded her voice on a demo of "Catwoman's Song", which recycled parts of the Steinman/Eldritch song "More". This demo was part of Steinman's preparations for the unrealized Batman: The Musical.

Ah ok, I always assumed it was the other way round and that was why Jim got the credit.

Jim had dozens of motifs and lyrics he'd keep throwing into songs over and over again across the span of decades, either because he thought this time it'd be a smash hit or simply because he couldn't think of anything better. Who knows how long he had the bits in common between "More" and "Catwoman's Song" knocking around before they showed up in either? All I can guess is that he didn't come up with "Counterfeit dollars or the English zloty" lol

Also if I had $3 million to spare I know where it'd be going, the Steinman archives would have a good home with me lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnJlapKxfQk

I was just reminded this was on the final Meat/Jim record. It's .. so disappointing.