"cLOUDDEAD: Hip-Hop's silver lining"

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or so, allegedly, the cover line of the new issue of The Wire sez.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

strongo and trife to thread, pls.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

wot a clever play on their name

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

cLOUDDEAD is easily my favorite anticon project. However, they're not nearly badical nor "hip-hop"* enough to warrant any attempts I can conjure at defending the backlash we will be seeing in 5...4...3...2...

*regardless of the maleability of the term "hip-hop"...whatever one might think "hip-hop" means, I don't think they're part of it

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

wtf, cLOUDDEAD is folk music

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

"You're every and nowhere baby..."

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I really love that new Passage album on Anticon, but i wouldn't call it hip-hop either. i would call it Beck-musik.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

they don't rhyme. hip hop can lack many things, but rhyme is a part of its definition. They are pleasant easy listening. They are not hip hop.

― ann, Friday, 20 February 2004 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

They do so rhyme. Just not as a rule.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

sole doesn't rhyme. he is hip hop.

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay I'm going away now cuz I don't really like this group enough to have to be the guy singled out for defending them 300 posts on. I do however think Doseone is a fucking really brilliant vocalist who happens to barely ever be involved in projects that are worth listening to, but when they are they're a kajillion times more awesome than most "real" hip-hop. And that's where I'll leave it.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i really want to hear the clouddead album. it's next on my list.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i only recently bought the first clouddead album for shits and giggles and i don't know why, but it's a lot more listenable than any other indie hiphop out there i can think of. i even put in a borrowed copy of some anticon compilation and it was awful. i mean like really bad. why is that? is it because this anticon comp really tries to claim it's hip hop and clouddead seem to really claim no allegiance to anything?

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

and why don't i think MF Doom is indie?

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean he's as indie as the Bobby Digital album

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

mf doom is backpacker. not indie.

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

could you please explain the difference, cutty?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

backpacker = black hip hop that white people listen to

indie = white "hip hop" that white people listen to

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

both under them umbrella term "underground"

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

is tech 9ine backpacker?

― William Wiggins, Friday, 20 February 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

no, he's hardcore!!!

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

white people listen to outkast, jay z, and 50 cent. so they're backpacker, right?

and what about lyrics born? he's asian!!

― chuck, Friday, 20 February 2004 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

and is there any such thing as white hip hop without quote marks around it?

― chuck, Friday, 20 February 2004 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Is Rawkus indie? Or was Rawkus indie and now isn't? And Def Jux? In my opinion they are both "indie" - I'm just taking ILXor's temperature.

― nader (nader), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

backpacker vs. indie - can't wait for this one!

― nader (nader), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

and where do hispanics fit into this? it's all very confusing!

both clouddead albums are real nice, by the way. though i know that frank kogan got his copy of the first one in the mail and listened to it and thought it was interesting before he wrote about it for the voice, but he had no idea it had anything to do with hip-hop until he did some research. i don't really CARE what anybody calls it (i think of it as dub noise or something), but i tend to agree without whoever said it was pleasant background music up above. it's very relaxing!

― chuck, Friday, 20 February 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

chuck: i said under the umbrella term "underground". outkast, jay z, and 50 cent are not underground, they are on the damn charts.

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

so jurassic five and black eyed peas aren't backpacker then, right? and atmosphere isn't indie now anymore, i guess. seeing how they're all on the damn charts and all.

― chuck, Friday, 20 February 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't even know what genre to call black eyed peas. shit?

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

is david byrne hip hop???

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

He is fannypacker bip hop.

― Andy K (Andy K), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

BLIP hop. Excuse me.

― Andy K (Andy K), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

chuck: the best way to determine this to actually be an underground hip hop artist and look into your audience during a show. therein lies the answer.

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry--"this is to actually"

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I wanna live in a world as absolute as cutty's

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.thecrusade.net/gallery/images/gallery_136/PIC00042.jpg

― William Wiggins, Friday, 20 February 2004 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

hah. matos, i'm just rufflin feathers. everything isn't all black and white. zing.

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Did 50 just get home from a renaissance festival?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i know where he got that shirt, and it wasn't the men's department.

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Dose One=rapper
photographed/thrift store hat=rhyme

― ann, Friday, 20 February 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

kinda figured, yeah, cutty. I'm laughing, anyway.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

50 as the black Don Ho

― oops (Oops), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess I thought Mos Def (prior to his Hollywood, um, fame) was indie, and Talib, Aesop, and Mr. Lif... but once you chart you're out?

― nader (nader), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

and is there any such thing as white hip hop without quote marks around it?

Eminem!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

if you apply my formula to the following artists, you can plainly see:

mos def = backpacker into raptor (rapper turned actor)
talib = backpacker into commercial
aesop = indie hopper
mr. life = backpacker of the political kind

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

wait, so if you're an indie rapper or a backpack one, and then you get on the charts, but then you don't anymore, how long do you have to wait until you can be an indie or backpacker again? is that even allowed? and you still never said what we're supposed to do about the asian or hispanic guys! or dizee rascal for that matter!

― chuck, Friday, 20 February 2004 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

and like, were lil jon or the ying yang twins or 50 for that matter indie BEFORE they had any hits? (and what about hardcore rappers who just plain totally suck so nobody not even people who like sucky popular hardcore rappers buy their records? are THEY still indie??)

and what about, um, BABIES? who didn't even START rapping yet????

― chuck, Friday, 20 February 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

kill them all and let god sort em out

― oops (Oops), Friday, 20 February 2004 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

and what about, um, BABIES? who didn't even START rapping yet????

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

(ilm iz making me laugh today)

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

chuck, now you're just being ridiculous.

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 20 February 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

(rimshot, clinking glasses, someone clears throat)

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 20 February 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i like the dose stuff on the hood album more than on the first clouddead record; I haven't heard the new one though. also, I am a whitey.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Friday, 20 February 2004 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Doseone is an enormous and original talent - who's phoned it in 90% of the time. His Subtle project coughed up about three great tracks across 4 EPs, and he sounds like he's phoning it in on the new cLOUDDEAD record - and I'm a huge cLOUDDEAD fan, but this new one kind of gives me a headache. Themselves' No Music was good, but I still think his best work was on Boom Bip & Doseone, Circle.

Still amazing how every mention of this band kicks off a "but is it hip-hop?" argument, even on this forum. They're often yanked into the hip-hop legitimacy battle but it's silly, and irrelevent, and I'd bet the only reason they ever put up with the label was to piss people off. (Rock has no rules left worth breaking.)

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

The Mush Records 2002 Tour DVD is also worth watching - cLOUDDEAD, Boom Bip & Doseone, and Reaching Quiet (the other two cLOUDDEAD guys) all play good sets - the Boom Bip & Doseone is the best, though.

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"phoning it in" is OTM

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

nah, rappers text message it in

― oops (Oops), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

/jay leno

― oops (Oops), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

subtle just got signed to a warp subsidiary lable (can't remember the name).

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Blackpacker? Buttpacker? What?

"Rap's not pop; if you call it that then stop".

― scottontharox (scottkundla), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris, the question isn't really so much "are they hip-hop or not" (though why not ask), it's "are they REALLY hip-hop's 'silver lining'?" and then the attendant thinking behind it--e.g. does hip-hop really NEED a silver lining?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Backpacker vs. Indie vs. Scandanavian Progressive-Symphonic Black Metal...

Metal wins.

Next!

― scottontharox (scottkundla), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

cLOUDDEAD: hip-hop's fluffy white ... um, wait ...

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i just know that something good is gonna happen.

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Right, no. That headline's silly on all levels.

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i just want to thank matos for starting another crap indie rap thread with all the claptrap of race, authenticity, etc.

― jack cole (jackcole), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not his fault. he has a troll in his backpack.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

About that headline, the central problem is that I don't think cLOUDDEAD even try to influence hip-hop or any other artists - they're in their corner doing their own thing. Anticon came out of the gates saying it would "advance hip-hop" but the cLOUDDEAD guys, at least, just don't have it on the agenda. That's also why I think of them as the perfect musicians for Wire magazine (which you could count as one of their biggest proponents): Wire isn't usually trend-happy, and they don't usually rate musicians by whether they're going to save the world.

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Friday, 20 February 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

chris OTM, (only because i said the same thing upthread)

― JaXoN (JasonD), Saturday, 21 February 2004 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

surely the silver lining thing is merely a play on their name and not any sort of serious attempt to diss hip hop in general?

― robin (robin), Sunday, 22 February 2004 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Hip Hop's Silver Apples would have been a more appropriate headline.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Sunday, 22 February 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

Wud every 1 stop dissing cLOUDDEAD, they b da nu cyp hill. whatever any way obie and run dmc are the real generals behind hip hop along with dre. duz n e 1 kno what lable 8-off agallahs on

― Ben Whitehead, Thursday, 15 April 2004 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

These DJ Shadow/TMBG collabos are awesome

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:39 (twenty-one years ago)

haven't heard them, yet those stupid pics of them in the wire (nice outfits, guys!) make me hope that i never do. thankfully derek bailey and amm never dressed like that. a minor point? maybe, but am i the only one who felt embarrassed purchasing a magazine with something this idiotic looking on the cover? (i wanted the issue for the art bears article.)

god i hate how the wire panders to hip hop. i wish they'd drop the pose altogether. they don't sound convinced by their own rhetoric; are any of their readers?

― kjoerup, Thursday, 15 April 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not. wait, i'm not really a wire reader. i am a fan of the picture they ran of david toop's writing desk though. and clouddead aren't hip-hop. or at least the new album isn't. it's stoner rock. i love it. and it DOES remind me of my beloved Dalek. who did a collab with Faust. i bought that one issue of the wire cuz faust were on the cover. they were dressed nicely i guess.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 15 April 2004 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

ok i kno this is sposed to b bout cLOUDDEAD n all but duz n e 1 kno what record label 8off agallah is on or what any of his albums are on coz i wanna buy them but thery're rare as shit. ive d'loaded a fewsongs and i don;t feel right rippin him off coz he isnt mainstream n all.

― Ben Whitehead, Thursday, 15 April 2004 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

These DJ Shadow/TMBG collabos are awesome

miccio, OTM. And I cast a vote for Clouddead, but a vote against the dumbass caps arrangement.

Anybody else feeling ratatat?

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Friday, 16 April 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

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