TS: Joy Division - "Warsaw" vs. Blue Oyster Cult

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Post-Pistols postpunk despair vs. post-MC5 protopunk doom-partying -- Ian and pals rip off Long Island's finest more butt-nakedly than Interpol ripped off anyone, though there could be a bit of oblivion involved (did anyone in Manchester -- nay, Britain -- own a copy of Tyranny and Mutation?).

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 06:42 (twenty-two years ago)

(technically the only thing keeping this from being a draw is that "Warsaw" has no references to HOT RAILS TO FUCKIN' HELL BURNIN' YER EYES OUT.)

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 06:44 (twenty-two years ago)

dude, JD were ALL ABOUT ripping off seventies heavy-metal. so many of the riffs on unknown pleasures were pure tommy iommi -- i mean, listen to "new dawn fades."

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 21 February 2004 06:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, that's what I don't get. Why'd Bernard Sumner stop playing those crunching riffs and start mumbling BS over jingle-jangle?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 21 February 2004 07:08 (twenty-two years ago)

(Didn't Factory actually promote UP as "the most important hard rock album of 1979" or something like that?)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 21 February 2004 07:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, their 1977 demo of "The Kill" (as Warsaw) is soooo "Sonic Reducer" (though, uh, wait, which came first?)

Not like this makes me indignant or anything. In fact, it makes mix CDs easy and fun!

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 07:13 (twenty-two years ago)

3! 5! 0! 1! 2! 5!

― anode (anode), Saturday, 21 February 2004 07:29 (twenty-two years ago)

that's not how it's done, ya dimwits

― Joey Ramone (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 07:30 (twenty-two years ago)

The difference between the punks and post-punks: the post-punks counted out of order.

― anode (anode), Saturday, 21 February 2004 07:33 (twenty-two years ago)

that is why math rock had to happen

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 07:34 (twenty-two years ago)

never thought of this as "Warsaw" is so basic it's boring, so i just skip it (though just listening to it then, i think i even heard some ranting about 'eyes' ?)
heat from the underground -- "Warsaw" is a crude theft of about 1/4 of "Hot Rails to Hell" -- the blue oyster cult has to WIN this, they're the ones who've been burned here

― george gosset (gegoss), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:06 (twenty-two years ago)

i dunno, warsaw is kinda interesting as a dry-run for mr. hammett and his studio tricks, and hearing certain JD songs in their early stages. said martin hammett tricks prob. accounted for why mr. summers gave up the tommy iommi/BOC riffing and turned into the coyly silly lyricist that he became.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"Warsaw" is one of their best songs!

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Honestly, did Blue Oyster Cult's eggheaded demi-metal even reach the chilly streets of Manchester? I think it might be just a coinkydink.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Sundar is right, u r all not punxorz.

― Former Supposed So Called Nihilist Teenage Drug Disco Addiction Counselor (mjt), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:17 (twenty-two years ago)

You guys all know why it's "3 5 0 1 2 5" right?

― Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:22 (twenty-two years ago)

whoops, Nate anticipated my question in his question. Sorry, Nate. Hats off to ya.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't, Broheems.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I think it had something to do with nazi Germany and concentration camps; I think 350125 might have been something tattooed on internments, or something horrific like that. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere. Maybe even on ILM!

― Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmmm...I don't think that's it. It would be unlike them to be beat the concept to death like that (they were a little more subtle, it seems to me). Might be wrong, though.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:39 (twenty-two years ago)

No, wait I'm totally wrong. Fuck me, sorry about that..

― Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I was thinking of the "3 1 G!!!" part, not the 350125 part.

― Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I found it .... this was something someone wrote on some mailing list I'm on; might be true, might not be-

>Sorta fits in with the whole fascist imagery thing ... POW's taken by
>American forces in WWII were assigned serial numbers with a
>three-letter prefix; here's a quote from uboat.net:
>
>> The first part of the serial number designated the theater in
>> which the prisoner had been captured. For example, the number 81
>> meant North Africa; 5 indicated the Western Defense Command; and
>> 31 meant the European Theater. Directly following this number came
>> a letter indicating the country in whose army the prisoner had
>> served. A German soldier captured in North Africa would carry the
>> first part as 81G-; an Italian captured in Europe would have the
>> designation of 31I-; an Austrian taken in Europe would be assigned
>> 31A and so on. The second part of the serial number was an
>> individual number assigned consecutively to the POW upon capture.
>> A German veteran of the North African campaign might carry the
>> serial number 81G-5849.

― Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:43 (twenty-two years ago)

God, why I attributed it to the nazis I dunno. Nevermind me, I've been tippling.

― Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 21 February 2004 08:44 (twenty-two years ago)

what is annoying about this qn. is that "hot rails to hell" is just accidentally one of the few songs for which it couldn't be said jd actually ripped off and re-modelled the whole early boc fashion fascism song/stance philosophy.
that this band toured with ozzy and grandually deteriorated in other ways in no way detracts from the early political fashion-ism as a cynical arty statement ('cross their first 3 albums that i like, including visuals).

― george gosset (gegoss), Saturday, 21 February 2004 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"Warsaw" is one of their best songs!
i find it musically wretched -- so much so that i dunno the lyrics -- almost unlistenable, really -- were they making some point about barren conditions in occupied Poland ?

kinda interesting as a dry-run for mr. hammett and his studio tricks, and hearing certain JD songs in their early stages.
yeah, a dry run, a midpoint between early warsaw grit-punk and early jd ideas about new production only just surfacing (to my ears), like the mid-point betwen the two sounds, a point at which neither sound would have been used to the max. (and vice versa), possibly right in the middle, and so ..

OK the lyrics sound meant, sung, non-scat, but you could say that of all ian curtis lyrics. Even then, here his singing seems more consistently in tune (conventionally), and that made it even more boring !

― george gosset (gegoss), Saturday, 21 February 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

were they making some point about barren conditions in occupied Poland ?
I highly doubt it. Warsaw was their name before Joy Division, and they ripped that from Bowie's "Warszawa".
I haven't heard the BOC tune, but I was obsessed with JD for all of my late teens and early 20's, so I take their side by default.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 21 February 2004 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "Warsaw" is fantastic,....if not wildly indicative of what they'd later metamorphize into.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 21 February 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

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TS: Joy Division - "Warsaw" vs. Blue Oyster Cult - "Hot Rails to Hell"