Were any bands ever actually inflluenced at all by The Police?

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000008DHD.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

Oh sorry, I thought you said brands.

Ya really lost me on that one.

Dave Matthews Band.

Sorry retort pouch. I remember an interview where the hourno played Sting some Men At Work and he said, 'They've been listening to a lot of police records' or something. I think The Police were the first imitation reggae band to hit the pop charts singing in ludicrous faux-Jamaican accents, but MAW followed on pretty closely.

A beautiful mistake.

However "Dead End Job", "Next To You", "Peanuts" (!), and the very strange "Be My Girl - Sally" really have a punkish frenetic pop energy not unlike XTC at the time.. but in particular I think Copeland's drumming sounds not too far off from George Hurley's (just less cowbell) and Andy Sumner's shredding is not unlike D. Boon's. And hell, even Sting's bass playing kinda reminds me of Watt's a little. Just on this record, though.

One could also lose that argument.

I once lived downstairs from this ponytailed wannabe graphic designer guy. He was a real mama's boy - we was in his late twenties and his mom was always coming to pick up his laundry and shit. He had this framed picture up that he made a big deal of showing everyone who came to his house. He'd photoshopped his own face over his father's face in a wedding picture of his parents and clearly had no clue that this was a Freudian nightmare scenario. He sang for a band that looked as if it had been assembled by the Canadian government for an anti-smoking ad campaign. Clean cut kids from diverse backgrounds playing modestly funky Hootie-pop wearing cargo pants and Risky Business Ray-Bans.
He invited me ro a party one night. I wasn't going to go, but people were stomping and yelling "OH YEAH!" and "ALRIGHT!" and sounding like they were having the time of their lives. So I went upstairs expecting some out-of-control celebration and there was no-one there but the band, and they were all gathered around the TV watching a video of a Sting concert, screaming in ecstasy at Sting's every movement. It was creepier than a GG Allin concert.

-- fritz (fritzwollner5...), March 18th, 2002.

as is pretty much every single drummer playing any kind of commercial rock, metal or R&B today. and most of their bass players listened to sting. a lot.

There's a house in my street
And it looks real neat

the Warm Jets (who?) and Dismemberment Plan remind me of the Police sometimes.

There is definitely a Police thing going on with Q And Not U.

And Faraquet.

No.

xp

Copeland has been such a drum magazine staple for so long his influence extends beyond just Police fans to just general drum nerd shit

been on a bit of a brit-funk trip of late and ran into this one that i'd never heard before. linx were one of the most commercially successful brit-funk bands, but this cut off their first album just screams the police to me. just everything about it: vocals, guitars, bass but especially the drums - just check out the cymbals:

📹
Linx - I Won't Forget

had to find the link via incognito session so google/youtube won't get the idea that I like this awful song but "locked out of heaven" by bruno mars is a police pastiche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-fA-gBCkj0

I texted this to a friend, calling it my favorite Police song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrDj5XvZXX4

He replied, "That's not the Police! Sting would never worry about someone else. 'But I've seen the tip of the iceberg / And I think I need to explain it to you.'"

Rush was so in love with the Police

I wonder if Yes did? I can definitely see why, they were the one new wave/"punk"-ish band that really had pro chops

XTC were no slouches.

Highly possible that Yes knew Andy and Stewart personally from their prog rock days too xp

Or even before that in the case of Andy Summers.

xpost yeah XTC definitely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXsgFPPLBa0

Got to think Richard Page of Mr. Mister was at least sartorially influenced by Sting.

Now I have Stink singing “you need.a hero” in my head

Assuming Grand National have already been mentioned. Pretty sure lead singer Rudd used to be in a Police covers band

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7opB9Eoc64

Maxeen was basically the Police reincarnated as an early 00's pop punk band, all the way down to the singer/bassist, who I always thought had a passing resemblance to Sting. I think their second album got trapped up in some major-label limbo and never got a full release, but I always thought they were underrated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlEjzoyYGis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keO8mMU0pyA

I wonder if Yes did? I can definitely see why, they were the one new wave/"punk"-ish band that really had pro chops

Drama/90125/Big Generator all seem a little Police-ish to me

Rush was so in love with the Police

I wonder if Yes did? I can definitely see why, they were the one new wave/"punk"-ish band that really had pro chops

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, May 5, 2023 10:54 AM (two days ago)

One of the biggest downsides to the Police calling it quits is ending the 'influence tennis match' being played between them and Rush/Yes. Would a Synchronicity follow-up had a few more ventures into proggy time sigs? Would tracks from Power Windows or Big Generator incorporate more open space and whimsy? I guess we'll never know.

Also, has any other diamond-selling album been as back-loaded as Synchronicity? The songs with the largest radio presence don't arrive until Track 6 ("Synchronicity I" being the equiv of Hysteria's "Women" in its lack of a cultural footprint compared to the rest of the singles). Hell, you have to white-knuckle through the "Did this get placed on here by accident?"-level WTFery of "Mother" before you hear a anything from MTV or Casey Kasem countin'-'em-down.

The Police seemed to break up partially fighting over using a synclavier or a fairlight.

What they ‘could’ have done that would have made sense to do what the Talking Heads or Peter Gabriel did and expand the band to expand the sound. One could imagine say what a more open live version of the Police with say Branford Marsalis, Kenny Kirkland and say a second percussionist. Stings ego as a musician is just not wired in that way, he likes being the boss and in total control.

The problem with that is that Sting *did* try to expand the sound, repeatedly ... but with the goal iirc of cutting out the other guys, who were not surprisingly having none of it.

This is supposedly the demo that more or less made it to the album, with Stew and Andy tossing on one-take overdubs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylo6qCqcQ3U

In the case of the former, it's an all-time drum part. In the case of the latter, Andy is all but invisible on the track. From the infamous reunion interview:

What can you tell me about Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic?

Andy Summers: Well, I'm going to get very insulting here. When Sting was off doing the demos in Canada, he used this pianist who was incredibly pushy.

Stewart Copeland: He wasn't pushy.

Andy Summers: Fuck he was! He even managed to come down to Montserrat when we were recording.

Stewart Copeland: He was just like us actually.

Andy Summers: Well, yeah, but there wasn't room for him. He must have played 12 piano parts on that song alone. And as the guitar player I was saying, 'What the fuck is this? This is not the Police sound'.

Stewart Copeland: So we tried to make the song a Police song - which meant undoing all of Sting's arrangement. That was our basic policy anyway. Always has been. Throw out Sting's arrangement, keep his lyrics and the song. So we tried playing it slower than the demos, we tried my "rama-lama" punk version. Andy tried turning the chords upside down. We spent more time on this song than on all the other songs put together. One morning, in a state of extreme grumpiness, I remember saying, 'Okay put up Sting's original demo and I'll show you how crummy it is.' So Sting stood over me and waved me through all the changes. I did just one take, and that became the record. Then Andy did the same thing on the guitar. We just faced the music, but the bullet, and used Sting's arrangements and demo. Damn.

If we're going to talk about Mr. Mister, the Outfield, and Men at Work

whatabout

The Call and... wait for it... Mike + the Mechanics

Or even Genesis. This is a total Police nod:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm_8pRYKHqo

One could imagine say what a more open live version of the Police with say Branford Marsalis, Kenny Kirkland and say a second percussionist.

The one time I saw the Police — 1986, on the Amnesty International “A Conspiracy Of Hope” tour — Kirkland was in the lineup, but only played the keyboard parts from the recorded arrangements. There was no stretching out (by him or anyone else in the band).

"If You Love Somebody Set Them Free," "Fortress Around Your Heart" and "Love Is the Seventh Wave" sound like they could've been Police singles easily, but then again they wouldn't really expand their sound either - even the saxophone was likely dropped in rather than shaping the songs in any fundamental way (and I could see them easily swapped out for Summers's soloing).

Sting plays his music as sophisticated and informed by jazz, but it’s more in a box of his design. He pretty much went the Zappa way of hiring ringers including a long relationship with a guitarist of similar harmonic knowledge but Sting with complete editorial control.

Now Zappa would use such control often for him to be able to improvise and create on stage, so it is different.

I think this control is why Stings music is rhythmically largely stiff as a board completed to the Police. As Andy was referriing, would Rosanne be a hit as a bossanova as Sting originally thought? Maybe maybe not, but I think without happening upon the police- Gordon Sumners would have never become a ‘star’.

"Roooooooo-sannnne ..."

bird, I don't think Stewart and Andy would have dug "If You Love" or "Seventh Wave." Particularly the latter, which in anyone's hands is a bit glib.

"Fortress," though. Fuck. It slams as is, an epic track. But imagine it with the moodiness of "Wrapped Around Your Finger" and you have a different song. Less clutter and more impact. One of the Stingster's best lyrics imo

I missed the Linx chat :-( But the Police were definitely the inspiration for I Won't Forget, as I believe they pointed out in interviews at the time (?)

Costello later based Clubland in part on the Police, as most of Trust had nods to his peers in that way

No mention yet for Billy Joel's belated pastiche?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wk0r8CeiKc

Also, has any other diamond-selling album been as back-loaded as Synchronicity? The songs with the largest radio presence don't arrive until Track 6 ("Synchronicity I" being the equiv of Hysteria's "Women" in its lack of a cultural footprint compared to the rest of the singles). Hell, you have to white-knuckle through the "Did this get placed on here by accident?"-level WTFery of "Mother" before you hear a anything from MTV or Casey Kasem countin'-'em-down.

This is why I've never been entirely convinced by the album's slightly elevated position in the canon relative to the previous four. It's mostly so because The Hits and the sales ofc, but how many of these list-makers actually give a damn about the first 21 minutes besides the Synchronicities? This feeling would be easier to ignore had the two sides been reversed (FTR I consider the whole album to be generally really nice and I also think the strangeness of WIFY and Sahara gets downplayed next to Mother).

WIYF

try one more time

"Fortress..." and "All This Time" are the only Sting solo singles I like. If "Why Should I Cry For You" was a single, then that one too.

have you heard "Russians"? a very powerful commentary on the Cold War *runs away*

No fucking way you could make a Police song out of "All This Time" or "Russians" or, for that matter, "Moon Over Bourbon Street" or "Fields of Gold."

The dude went solo so as to be able to do that sort of thing without getting side-eye from his bandmates, and he was right to do so. The other Policemen wouldn't want to be associated with that material.

"Why Should I Cry for You" is an edge case. Can't imagine how it would sound, but it's plausible. "Shape of my Heart" done in the churny style of "Bring on the Night"? Plausible.

Fortunately there are at least some songs performed in both contexts, so we can actually compare. I am not sure whether "Shadows in the Rain" worked better as Police or Sting track. Leaning Sting right now but I may waffle.

try one more time

Nope that was it

WAYF on the other hand, probably as 'straightforward' (read: most obviously Police-sounding) as the album gets.

sigh. pretty silly of me not to realize two songs on the album are so similarly titled, even with your clue

have you heard "Russians"? a very powerful commentary on the Cold War *runs away*

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown)

most galling thing about that song imo is the implication that british people all love their children

(americans just as bad on that count so brits don't think i'm singling y'all out)

It's worse: he hopes the Russians love their children too

That song has a decent following with late-Boomer/early Gen-X lefty dudes who love history, it appears.

In a collegiate "History of Jazz and Rock" class in '94, the professor included "Russians" on the listening list, but no other songs from any of the Policemen. A few of us asked "Why?", he said that he thought that Sting should be represented. He did not understand that what we were really asking was "Of all the rhythmically and sonically interesting songs from the Police/Sting oeuvre, why choose a drumless dirge with 'There won't be snow in Africa this Christmas'-level lyrical ridiculosity?"

Written by noted jazz-rock dude Sergei Prokofiev.

I would ask that professor to be tied down and repeatedly exposed to Regatta de Blanc

in the liner notes of Blue Turtles he actually prints part of the sheet music from the Prokofiev piece he quoted, even at the age of 10 I thought that was remarkably pretentious. as though Sting expects people to see that and know how to hum the bit in their head or even play it on piano then go, ah yes, that's the part he borrowed. even though it's immediately obvious when you hear the song.

Something about the way Sting uses jazz and classical reeks of snobbish elitism, as if rock music was somehow beneath his efforts to do something REALLY important. I've seen past criticism echo the same feeling, but they also seem to suggest some kind of snobbishness towards classical and jazz. (Dave Marsh often seemed hostile to both, Christgau definitely towards classical.)

It's possible Sting shares the same philosophy as, say, Jean-Luc Godard or Jim Jarmusch or collectively the Beatles and doesn't believe in classifying anything as high/low or popular/serious art, and that ultimately what makes art great transcends those classifications, but unlike their work, I never get that impression from Sting's.

Not a fan of his album of 16th century lute music then?

I can't stand using lute

Or maybe

No matter what I doot
I'm still hungry for lute

Roxanne

You don't have to put on the red lute

If I ever lute my faith in you

Marsh's issue with Sting's jazz affectations/appropriations isn't with jazz itself; it's with Sting. Marsh is on record as a huge fan of Miles, Coltrane, Sun Ra, and many others.

As for Marsh's attitude towards classical, he's written about how his high school music appreciation classes were strict and unbending in their insistence that THIS (the material being covered) was GOOD, and THAT (what Marsh and his classmates were listening to: Motown, Beatles, Chicago and Memphis soul, garage rock) was BAD. It's likely that may have colored his viewpoint.

jfc I honestly didn't know about the lute music...

Re: Marsh's views on jazz, I do remember him writing some good words in Coltrane and Sun Ra's favor, but he's also written some bizarre claims that came to mind. For example, from his 1001 singles book: "Jazz purists like to boast that their virtuosos could cut huge hits any time they wanted to, but the spotty record of so-called 'jazz-rock fusion' makes that a brag of doubtful validity." He ignores the polarized reaction to fusion within the jazz community alone (and even then I wonder what his definition of "purists" may be since it's usually synonymous with traditionalists), and I don't think there are/were many great jazz musicians who remotely believed that cutting a hit record was that easy or could be dependent on instrumental talent.

I dunno, I certainly heard the "oh, they could make huge hits whenever! They just don't want to! They're better than that!" thing many times before I read that in Marsh's book. But yes, he does ignore how going electric, or incorporating even a hint of a backbeat on a record, would result in cries of "sellout!" from fans and musicians alike.

I don't think there are/were many great jazz musicians who remotely believed that cutting a hit record was that easy or could be dependent on instrumental talent.

It depends on what Marsh means by "jazz-rock fusion" here, though. He loves In A Silent Way, an album not deliberately calculated to be a hit. He loathes things like Blood, Sweat & Tears' "Spinning Wheel," a record/band seemingly designed to a) show The Kids that These Jazz Musicians Are Better Than Your Rock Musicians, and b) prove that Jazz Musicians Can Make Hits. He's also a fan of Steely Dan (apart from Gaucho). So at least part of the issue is that he's casting a wide net without defining his terms.

I do think there were a not-insignificant number of musicians who approached their work as "jazz" who thought it was relatively easy to make a hit record. It HAD to be easy; people like Connie Kay and Clark Terry played on sessions for hits where very little of their facility was required of them -- "Wow, that was a hit? And all I had to play was ___?" Mickey Baker, unable to make a living playing bebop, realized all he had to do was bend a string, and suddenly he was a highly in-demand session guitarist and made a handful of hits as a leader.