Best lyricist ever

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It's a tough choice, but my vote goes to Stephin Merritt.

― daavid (daavid), Friday, 27 February 2004 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Craig Finn

― Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Friday, 27 February 2004 23:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Elvis Costello, far and away

― d. powers (popmatters devon), Friday, 27 February 2004 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Joni Mitchell

― bahtology, Friday, 27 February 2004 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Boyer OTM
http://www.theholdsteady.com/images/17MAR03/MRB001.jpg

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Saturday, 28 February 2004 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom T. Hall (Certainly one of the few great lyricists who knows the proper usage of "whom")

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Saturday, 28 February 2004 00:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Willie Dixon

― jim wentworth (wench), Saturday, 28 February 2004 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Probably Elvis Costello, but I can't say he's consistently awesome. Which makes me think there must be a better choice out there that just hasn't evanesced in my mind yet.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Saturday, 28 February 2004 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a good picture of Chandler.

― usual channels, Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Bobby D.

― wallace carothers, Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:18 (twenty-two years ago)

OF COURSE!!!

― wallacecarothers, Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Smokey Robinson, Bruce Springsteen, Caetano Veloso, Dolly Parton, Stew, Matraca Berg

if I have to pick three: Chuck, Smokey, Caetano

if I have to pick one: I explode

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

It's Dylan, you fucking fucks.

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Maypang, flattery and wrongness will get you nowhere.

Actually, I love Dylan. But even he ceded the crown to Smokey.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:22 (twenty-two years ago)

DYLANDYLANDYLAN!!!!

― wallace carothers, Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, whoever wrote Chewy Chewy.

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:22 (twenty-two years ago)

smokey beats dylan?!?!?!?!?!? I DONT THINK SO!

― wallace carothers, Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

WELL I DO AND SO DID DYLAN HIMSELF!

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

as long as we're shouting and stuff

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Bobby is humble but he is also the greatest lyricist in the history of the english language

― wallace carothers, Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

and yet there are other opinions too, wallace

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Give me what you think is the best single song to use an example for each (smokey and bob)

― wallace carothers, Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom Waits for my money.

― Jim Reckling (Jim Reckling), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Comparin' Smokey and Bob is like comparin' Diana Ross & Patti Smith.

― jim wentworth (wench), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Jim I don't get that. I find both Diana and Patti insufferably pretentious, but there's no real confluence between them that is in any way related to Smokey Robinson and/or Bob Dylan.

Smokey's entry:

"Tears of a Clown"
Now if there's a smile on my face
It's only there trying to fool the public
But when it comes down to fooling you
Now honey that's quite a different subject

But don't let my glad expression
Give you the wrong impression
Cos really I'm sad, Oh I'm sadder than sad
I'm hurt and I want you so bad
Like a clown I appear to be glad ooh yeah

Well there's some sad things known to man
But ain't too much sadder than
The tears of a clown
when there's no one around.

Now if I appear to be carefree
It's only to camouflage my sadness
And honey to shield my pride I try
To cover this hurt with a show of gladness
But don't let my show convince you
That I've been happy since you
Decided to go, oh I need you so
I'm hurt and I want you to know
For others I put on a show

Well there's some sad things known to man
But ain't too much sadder than
The tears of a clown
when there's no one around.

Just like Pagliacci did
I try to keep my surface hid
Smiling in the crowd I try
But in a lonely room I cry
The tears of a clown
When there's no one around

Economy, poetry, flow, control. Hit me up with yr favorite Dylan. (This is fun but I'm gonna go watch some TV with my wife now.)

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)

F lyricists in general though. I mean, really. Half of these writers (Dylan included) are usually so concerned with the words they're singing that their music often lacks any real soul. I've always found this to be the case with Costello's stuff in particular. I've tried just about all his albums and I still can't find a single song that really speaks to me on any emotional level, or even one that makes me want care enough to listen to whatever it is he's singing about in the first place.

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Too bad Smokey never even wrote that song.

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, wait..

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:51 (twenty-two years ago)

That's what I was thinking.

― jim wentworth (wench), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I said something like that "any real soul" thing two years ago here now, and someone came back with: "define soulfulness." It seems self-evident, but isn't it in the ear and heart of the beholder? Elvis has written some songs that have touched my soul...does that mean I'm wrong and you're right? I'm right and you're wrong? Or is it the CONCEPT that's indefinable?

That's why I favor Smokey and Chuck Berry though, form mirroring content all the way, with American folk poetry en passant.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:53 (twenty-two years ago)

is it just that you guys thought that S.R. was just a singer?

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 28 February 2004 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

My post re: Diana & Patti was just to hilight their differences of style. Dylan's craftiness is, in my opinion, unequalled with Van Morrisson, Neil Young and Jim Morrisson running a tight race, though.
(expects to get clobbered for this)

― jim wentworth (wench), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Re: Smokey. I always just thought of him more as a performer than a songwriter/lyricist. I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to the soul stuff though. Whatever the case, I think we're both on the same page here.

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Neil Young is to Jim Morrison what Love is to The Ohio Express.

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

smokey only co-wrote tears with two others including stevie wonder...also..it is a great song but doesnt exactly top "tangled up in blue", desolation row", "sad-eyed lady of the lowlands" , "visions of johanna", etc...

― wallace carothers, Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

yes it does. it exactly tops those songs, two of which I really love.

and Smokey Robinson wrote songs for many Motown artists, both in collaboration and by himself, for more than 25 years; Motown was a collective, but he ran the songwriting division more or less by himself. he taught everyone in Detroit how to fashion a song, including Stevie Wonder, who was discovered as a child Smokey impersonator. "Tears of a Clown" has all the lyrical attributes of a Smokey Robinson song, and he didn't need anyone to write a perfect song, as you'd know if you cared to know.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I see that no one seconded my opinion. I must admit, not without shame, that I'm not too familiar with neither Dylan nor Elvis C. but I'll definitely listen to more of them.

― daavid (daavid), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait a minute. Smokey is cool. Very Cool, and "I Second That Emotion" is one of my favorites, but the sheer volume of Dylan has to be taken into account as well. I don't know of a man or woman who has been more prolific for 40+ years. Not just prolific, but good and prolific...

― jim wentworth (wench), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd agree, but I just find Merritt too damn smug and calculative or something, esp. on 69 Live Songs.

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:21 (twenty-two years ago)

err.. 69 Love Songs.

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll take Smokey any day over Dylan.

― Jim Reckling (Jim Reckling), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, maybe SM is too formal but to me that is not a drawback because he really succeds in expressing deep emotions in a clever, often funny way. His songs are meant to be like that, crafty not heartfelt.

― daavid (daavid), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:43 (twenty-two years ago)

By the way how do you feel about Stuart Murdoch? Is he a contender?

― daavid (daavid), Saturday, 28 February 2004 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, he's written some of my favourite songs. He's a little too precious sounding for me sometimes though, which would be fine if it were the 60s, but alas, it ain't, so that wide-eyed twee thing can only go so far before it starts sounding like a big con, you know? He's probably a contender if you wanted to narrow it down to best lyricists of the past 10 years or so. I don't think he matters much in the larger scheme of things though. I mean, if it's to come down to brass tacks, he's probably just as important as someone like Donovan, which isn't really saying much.

― maypang (maypang), Saturday, 28 February 2004 06:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Richard Butler

― anode (anode), Saturday, 28 February 2004 06:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Eminem

― spittle (spittle), Saturday, 28 February 2004 07:05 (twenty-two years ago)

nominees: ray davies, ian curtis, biggie, zappa (when he felt like it, anyway).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 28 February 2004 07:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Also Hank Williams, Mighty Sparrow, Howlin' Wolf, Poly Styrene, Chuck D., Johnny Rotten/Lydon, and whichever one in Leiber/Stoller wrote the words.

― spittle (spittle), Saturday, 28 February 2004 07:30 (twenty-two years ago)

i 2nd hank williams, sr. lemme also add morrissey.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 28 February 2004 07:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Fred Durst. Just kidding.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 28 February 2004 07:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Shaun Ryder:
"Son, I'm thirty,
I only went with your mutha 'cos she's dirty"

Robyn Hitchcock:

"He never made love to a loaf of bread,
Unless he found one in his bed"

Iggy Pop:

""Jesus?"
"This is Iggy.""

Though the answer is of course, Dylan.

― alias, Saturday, 28 February 2004 08:02 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.danielcohen.com/dcsales/item_images/571.jpg

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Saturday, 28 February 2004 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Or...
http://www.scr.org/season/99-00season/images/newman.badlove.portrait.jpg

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Saturday, 28 February 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

shane mcgowan. plus lots that have been mentioned already.

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 28 February 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The Pinefox.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Saturday, 28 February 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark E Smith, dicks.

― J J Sexy Dancer, Saturday, 28 February 2004 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

J Mascis definetely.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 28 February 2004 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Seth Putnam

― dave q, Saturday, 28 February 2004 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

One more for Chuck Berry.

― Jack Bauer, Saturday, 28 February 2004 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck Berry, Marcy Mays, Bon Scott, David Byrne, Neil Young...not Smokey though cuz too often he throws in some genteel refernce to Shakespeare or something.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 28 February 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Seth Putnam

*checks AMG* Dave Q wins again!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 28 February 2004 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Paul Simon

― brian, Saturday, 28 February 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to at least nominate Jarvis Cocker for the crown ... he should be part of the discussion.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 28 February 2004 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Barry is a wise man.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 28 February 2004 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

What about Leonard Cohen? I've always considered him the only lyricist who's actually a poet.

― Maxwell von Bismarck (maxwell von bismarck), Saturday, 28 February 2004 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Although evaluating the lyrics based on how good they are without the music misses the point, I guess.

― Maxwell von Bismarck (maxwell von bismarck), Saturday, 28 February 2004 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

What about Neil Tennant?

― daavid (daavid), Sunday, 29 February 2004 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom Lehrer gets my vote.

― udu wudu (udu wudu), Sunday, 29 February 2004 01:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Leonard Cohen, Ray Davies, Joni Mitchell, Andy Partridge, Smokey....

Elvis Costello.....somebody upthread said that they found his music lacking any real soul and that it didn't speak to them on an emotional level. I think his problem is that his real subject is (obviously) the hurt and anger of love gone bad, bitterness and spite. If you've experienced any of those feelings then his songs are full of soul and emotion. Plus they've got the wittiest lyrics imaginable.
I find Dylan does not move me much, lyrically. Techincally its all there but I'm impressed by his lyrics, I don't actually love them. Except on his more obviously personal, naked love songs....

― David Nolan (David N.), Sunday, 29 February 2004 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Jake Thackray

― Dadaismus (Dada), Sunday, 29 February 2004 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

BECKER AND FAGEN, FULES!

― Clarke B., Sunday, 29 February 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

M.E. Smith. Thank you JJSD.

Honorary silver medal to S.P. Morrissey.

― fletcher dexter, Sunday, 29 February 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Elliott Smith

― MerkinMuffley (MerkinMuffley), Sunday, 29 February 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

John Darnielle. I know he'll probably be reading this but that doesn't mean we shouldn't mention him. He really is the best.

― Chris Davis (Chris Davis), Sunday, 29 February 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Was just listening to 69 Love Songs last night. SM would definitely be near the top of my list. Jarvis Cocker also.

I'd like to cast a negative vote against Leonard Cohen - too much attention is paid to the fact that he was a 'published poet' in Canada, whatever that might mean. I love his music, but his lyrics always seem a bit too personal, too opaque to me - kind of like Will Oldham.

Chuck D would also be on my list.

― bert (bert), Sunday, 29 February 2004 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

cut this picture into you and me
burn it backwards kill this history
make it over make it stay away
or hate'll soon be ending what love started to stay
---
sunshine, been keeping me up for days
there is no night time, it's only a passing phase
-----
someone found the future as a statue in a fountain at
attention looking backward in a pool of water wishes with
a blue songbird on his shoulder who keeps singing over everything
----
you'll take advantage til you think you're being used
cos' without an enemy your anger gets confused
----
you turned white like a saint
i'm tired of dancing on a pot of gold ...flake paint

-----------
it don't matter cos i have no sex life
all i want to do now is inject my ex-wife...
it's a christmas time
and the needles on the tree
a skinny santa is bringing something to me
his voice is overwhelming, but his speech is slurred
and i only understand every other word....
i'm going on a date with a rich white lady
ain't life great?
give me one good reason not to do it
=

― MerkinMuffley (MerkinMuffley), Sunday, 29 February 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know who it is, but I feel strongly it isn't Dylan.

― Sym (shmuel), Sunday, 29 February 2004 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

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