ILM Listening Chamber 7

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And since it's actually the 12th in the UK (as it will be here, in about 7 minutes), here's another one. Click click!

David Raposa, Thursday, 11 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Crikey, another song! I like this one a lot more than #6. It's like Van Halen with more interesting rhythm. It is a bit of a one-trick pony for the first three and a half minutes, but I love the guitar solo part that starts after that. The guitar has a war with the beats to see who can be more skittery. I'm keeping this one.

palpable, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This guy is instantly recognizable if you're familiar with his style. He's also one of the few old-style guitar heroes who's consistently changed while maintaining his artistic integrity (Clapton, anyone?) Comparing him to Van Halen is heresy; it's true that he's learned from his students over the years, but they're still exactly that: his students.

Jack Redelfs, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Definitely my favourite of all songs here up to now. Only guitar and beat but the guitar is played in an innovative way. Or better creative way. The guy (I do not think it is a woman) knows his guitar and experiments with it. After Jack's hints I have an idea who it could be. If it is him he nevertheless has changed a bit as I would not have noticed without the allusions. I did not listen to any of his music of the last ten to fifteen years. His and his group's heyday would have been the early seventies.

alex in mainhattan, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I did that silly thing where you listen as it downloads.

5 seconds in: Cool riff. Hope the voice is as good. 10 seconds in: (reads rest of discussion) Instrumental? FEH! 15 seconds in: Hey, cool beat. 45 seconds in: This is damn good stuff. Hey, if you're going to do guitar wankery, it might as well be INTERESTING wankery rather than being a guitarist who may as well be touching themselves rather than their guitar when they play... it even seems to have some kind of song structure!

EdwardO, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Somewhere between Joe Satriani and King Crimson, with those "modern" production touches. For me, though, it's leaning towards the Satriani side a bit much - maybe if there was some singing about robots and paranoia and dinosaurs, I'd be happier, but it is still impressive. And, yeah, there's some strange unexplained Hard Rock stigma attached as well, which prevents me from truly enjoying it (though I'm not sure why).

David Raposa, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Seems like it's missing something that would make it rise above the 'guitar wankery' that somebody else mentioned. I'm suprised that it got so many favourable responses right off the bat. Really seems like it's taking itself too seriously - I don't mind cheesy guitar if its fun, like in the last track, but this...urg...too self-consciously 'cool' for my taste.

By the way, I'm very much enjoying listening to these tracks, and am looking forward to being turned on to some good music I've never heard before. Please don't stop.

Alan Hunt, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Just have a guy repeating the word "fuck" over this and you'll know why I think XTRMNTR is drivel.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm slightly baffled by this one - i thought at first it was a collaboration between one of the guitar magazine widdlers and some noisy electronic producer, but the backing is possibly a bit too simple for that. but then it's changed my opinion of those guitar people, if they've embraced non-rock beats - i always thought they'd just have prog-metal bands behind them

m jemmeson, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

David you are a little inconsistent. In the previous chamber you say "and stop dropping hints" and here you drop two of them. The group of the one I thought it was after Jack's hints but where my gut feeling was against and another one I do not even know who fulfills Jack's criteria even better (I checked AMG). I bet it his him.

alex in mainhattan, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have no idea how what I typed can constitute hinting.

By the way, if you want ME to stop hinting, please (all future Chamber submitees) erase ALL information from the MP3. That includes the file name AND any MP3 title tags - you know, the "file info" you can check out in Winamp. Keep my ass (and the rest of me) in the dark, if possible.

David Raposa, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm not sure if you can erase the MP3 meta info via Winamp, but Music Match Jukebox can (and probably others)

m jemmeson, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

David, sorry hinting is not the right word as you probably do not know the artist or am I completely wrong here? The correct term would be guessing.

alex in mainhattan, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

sounds like some really kick-ass music that extra! or e! would use over their "What's Hot In Music?!" segment. but i have to admit, i was kinda groovin' on it. guiltily. works better than that godawful derek bailey _gtr, drums & bass_ album, anyway.

your null fame, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sort of stuck between being vaguely impressed that it's put together so well and being put off by that particular guitar style, which I must admit has never made much sense to me; three seconds of that and I feel like I'm watching a mid-80s teen comedy. (Come to think of it, the synthetic-backing + guitar-wankery combo is the sole basis of most mid-80s teen movie sountracking. This track would slip nicely over several scenes in Revenge of the Nerds 2: Nerds in Paradise.)

It's really well put together, but I guess I just don't understand what sort of reaction the listener is meant to have ...

Nitsuh, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Don't care for this one. I dislike that the guitar riffs sound looped (whether they're being played or not.) Also, seems difficult to play guitar with that kind of tone and not have a least a little humor about it. MAYBE an interesting idea, but seems like poor execution.

Mark, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Nitsuh -- what do you mean by "what sort of reaction the listener is meant to have"? Is determining that part of the creative process?

I am asking because I know you make music and I am curious what you think. When I interviewed Jan St. Werner from Mouse on Mars, I asked him a similar question and he seemed apalled at the idea that music is created with specific emotional reactions in mind. I think he thought it was manipulative and fascist, or something. Don't mean to hijack the chamber, here, feel free to email me personlly if you like.

Mark, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, it is possible to change the tags in Winamp. Just right click on the filename in the playlist and left click on "file info."

And I don't see how you can say this file is just the same as any other wanking. Far better than your average wanker -- that sounds like faint praise, but I think I like certain forms of guitar showmanship better than most here. Dammit, I _like_ guitar solos.

Jack Redelfs, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark, that's an issue that I'd like to see discussed right here (or at least somewhere on ILM). It might not relate directly to the track at hand, but surely it's got to do with this exercise at large. (I still think this track is deeply awful. I normally have the patience and inclination to comb over the track, finding the bits I think work and those I don't, but this is the first mp3 that has made that kind of listening rilly difficult. Maybe after a few more *shudder* plays.)

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark --

I know, it's a tricky thing to say -- and when I find myself saying, I tend to want to reserve judgement on the track. Because I really mean that as a personal admission, and not entirely a judgement on the track itself.

But to clarify, what I mean is actually quite simplistic. When I hear, let's say, a funk track, I have some idea of the general thread of reaction that's trying to be established: a funky shake-your-ass vibe, usually. When I hear a chirpy indie-rock track, I know how I'm meant to be enjoying it. When I hear a big shouty emo anthem, I know -- again, in the most general sense -- the sort of tumultuous emotional thread it's meant to tug on. And if I'm driving in my car listening to Snoop, I know pretty precisely how the track is trying to make me feel about that.

But with this track -- and again, this may be a personal failing on my part -- I have no reaction, and more importantly I'm not sure how the genre intends me to react. Am I supposed to feel like it "rocks," for lack of a better word? I don't. Am I supposed to feel lulled or transported by it? I don't. And that goes on, for every general reaction to music I'm currently aware of: this is one of those rare tracks that I listen to and just hear a guitar playing and some beats going by, and they just seem there, without evoking anything in particular or making me feel any way in particular. It seems very well-played and very well put-together, as I noted, but I really don't know to what effect.

But like I said, I am completely willing to believe that this has more to do with me than the music, as this is precisely the sort of playing that I have never, never understood. What might help me, in this instance, would be seeing a performance, and getting a bit more of a sense of how the performer seems to interpret the material -- whether he's making squinched-face "look at me wail" faces or swaying gently back and forth or wearing that studied, I Am Concentrating look. Sounds silly, but that's really as lost as I am with regard to how I'm meant to enjoy this stuff.

That said, I'm all for the argument that people's emotional reactions to music are personal and not scripted or enforced by the musician. But that's only in the most subjective and specific senses. We shouldn't doubt that when Mouse on Mars throw a house beat under a track, they're expecting a tap-your-foot, nod-your-head, dig-the- groove kind of reaction ... and there's no doubt that when Metallica rams through some power chords, they expect you to feel some powerful rockin' going on. With this track, well ... like I said, I don't feel much, and I sort of wish I knew what the artist felt, or how he expected people would feel.

Nitsuh, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

There's a phrase that's used a lot in the hip-hop fan community: "I don't feel it." "That's a nice beat but I just don't feel it." It really is a meaningful phrase, and I think you said it yourself in so many searching words. You don't detest it, but you're indifferent, it doesn't engage you and you just don't feel it. I don't think there's any need to complicate the matter any more than that. After a few more listens the track is pretty insubstantial, he's done much much better, even in the last few years.

Jack Redelfs, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I are a rhythm slut. This song is in 5/4; it automatically trips my "COOL!" buttons.

Dan Perry, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

is this Joe "Satch" Satiriani?

Mike Hanle y, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Can't you people wait 7 days, for the luvva Pete? My GOD, you folks are edgy. Go smoke something.

("You people" = those buggin' about track identities before the preordained 7 day waiting period has passed, Mik e.)

David Raposa, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

am i the only one who thinks this thing sounds like a boymerang or nasty habits track circa 1998 remixed by randy rhodes? (from beyond the grave...ooooooohhhhh...) i dunno, i kinda like it, despite myself. it features two thigs i hate (techstep plod beats and guitar wank) but makes me smile too in an odd way.

jess, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I love many guitar solos, love a lot of guitar-based music, love certain kinds of distorted guitars.

But not here. This is way too processed-trebly-slick, for starters, and the canned drums just aren't especially interesting to me at all. It's in 5/4, sure, but a sizeable proportion of Rush's music is in odd meters, and Rush is terrible. I like guitar-wank in small doses (and in my world, guitar-wank means Scott Henderson and Al DiMeola, not Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix), but while the production is too flashy/slick, the guitar work is too basic! And the guitar sound is really lacking in soul -- it sounds very digital and very canned. If I'm going to listen to this kind of guitar sound, and if I'm not going to get real funk or soul, then I want fast improvised solos, the virtuosity and awe-inspiringness of which are usually the only redeeming value of music like this. But simple patterns + cheesy sound = boring. If you're going to play big-dick music, show me your big dick, right? But this track never delivers the big dick.

It sounds like a pair of Berklee graduates with big hair, in a studio somewhere in SoCal or Miami, making music for an ESPN promo spot about skateboarding, and using a roomful of 1995-vintage digital effects processors. This is the kind of music that failed fusion musicians (with little taste) play.

Phil, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Lemme backpedal on one thing -- the guitar sound isn't that bad, listening to it again. What's around it makes it sound bad, though.

Phil, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You are right Phil the drum machine or whatever that thing is that provides the rhythm is terrible. And the guitar is really lacking in soul but why do guitars always need to have souls? I find the guitar play quite original. And of course this is a track you are not going to play when sipping your red wine with candles on. For me that was a new guitar sound I had never heard before and when listening to music I do not know that is exactly what I am looking for. Not the mainstream middle of the road crap that all sounds the same which you can hear on most radio or tv stations. Sorry about being carried away.

alex in mainhattan, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

For me that was a new guitar sound I had never heard before

Really? I guess I must have a different experience, having been saturated with seemingly omnipresent jazz-fusion as a budding teenage jazz musician.

If anyone here knows "Smooth as Ice" by Fashio (Fascio?), I think I've kind of heard this guitar sound there, too...

Phil, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

in 5/4, sure, but a sizeable proportion of Rush's music is in odd meters, and Rush is terrible.

BLASPHEMY.

Dan Perry, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Aw jeez. Now every time I go into a poorly-lit alley, I'm going to have to make sure I'm not being followed by a guy with hockey hair and a copy of Atlas Shrugged...

;-)

I do like "Tom Sawyer" and "YYZ" (especially as played -- sort of -- by Primus). Just not the rest of what I've heard.

Phil, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

If the tempo was faster/slower it would be metal-house and therefore GRATE but this is metal-hop and therefore suXor

Tracer Hand, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

what 7 days? I didn't know about any pre ordained rule. You should write at the bottum of these listening chambers " PLEASE DONT SAY UNTIL 7 DAYS HAVE PASSED" or eveyone will just blurt out answers like fairies on Halloween. sorry

Mike Hanle y, Sunday, 14 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

that was painful and useless

anthony, Sunday, 14 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

For the first two minutes I enjoyed it and thought it was funny - then I got bored. The beats are rubbish though the drum sound isn't too awful. I wouldn't listen to it again. The guitar doesn't sound like wank to me, it just sounds like guitar with too much echo on.

Tom, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Last 22 seconds though feature SHREDDING, so at least it goes out with a smile as I reach for the delete key.

Tom, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Interesting that people are talking about guitar "solos" in relation to this track. Apart from the last 22 seconds of widdling, shredding or whatever you Kerrang-readers call it, which was dreadful, there's no solo here. What we have is "loops" or samples of guitar sounds - although it's possible each one was played individually. These are then arranged in various ways over beats.

The result is that the track has the same organic feel to it as your bog-standard techno track, which I assume was the intention. In itself, that is quite interesting. And had it been played out over 6 or 7 minutes like your average Orbital or Photek track (very Photek- ish beats at start BTW), with a few more variations, this could have been a success. The fact that it isn't is perhaps due to not enough ambition than too much.

I may say a bit more when the answer and explanation appears (I have no idea who this is or who the person twice-mentioned above already is), but that'll do for now.

Jeff, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The week is over. Was it Joe Satriani? I would bet a euro it was him. Even though I have never heard anything by him before. And many explanations why this track was chosen please. I want to know all. Sorry David to making you unemployed temporarily. When the time is due I cannot wait.

alex in mainhattan, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Alex, stop stepping on my toes - these are new shoes, damn it.

It's not Satriani, by the way.

David Raposa, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This reminds me a bit of Apollo 440 who are also rubbish.

Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

OK time to put everyone out of their misery.

The track is left hook from Jeff Beck's LP You had it coming which was released last Spring.

I chose for a number of reasons.
1. Obviously I like it, his LP is prob one of the 3 I've listened to most this year.
2. It's a style of music which I figured most ILMer's would rarely listen to, in fact I'm surprised by how much I've listened to it.
3.It's a style of music which would lead to sharp reactions which I'm pleased to say it has.

I have to say that I think this is the weakest track on the LP but it has the most acute use of the guitar fretwankery and the glitch/IDM soundscaping. Someone mentioned Photek, it reminds me of Squarepusher. I love it rawness and the electronics seem to fit snugly around it. I also love the way that he can revive a genre (blues) which I had given up as a museum piece a long time ago.

Billy Dods, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Jeff Beck still looks exactly the same as he did in the Yardbirds. What's his secret?

Kris, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Wow, Jeff Beck - really? I quite liked 'There And Back' at the time, and keep meaning to check out 'Wired'
If the above is truly the weakest track, I might well get this new album too someday.

Jeff, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i'd had never guessed Jeff Beck... i only know the Yardbirds stuff, but just imagined everything since then had been mediocre blues/rock.

m jemmeson, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Jeff Beck. That's nice. At least someone of the old school who has evolved. I am so fed up with all these reunions where mediocre bands from the past try to reproduce their crappy dated sound. There are so many bands who should have finished making music long ago like The Stones, Jethro Tull etc. They love touring Germany.

alex in mainhattan, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)


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