The End of the Wu-Tang? Thoughts on what they leave behind.

i haven't heard very much of their music.

http://www.eurweb.com/images/08082003/odb(med-but-crazy).jpg

(ok, listmania):
36 chambers, return to 36 chambers, only built 4 cuban linx, heavy mental, liquid swords.
versus...
supreme clientele, beneath the surface, the w, ghost dog s/t, Bobby Digital...

But yeah, the point remains that the sad thing about them is missed opportunities. Too many side projects, RZA losing his production edge, Meth never putting out a classic, Iron Flag being so-so etc.

And it feels like 2004 should be about the end for them, cos compared to when they began (and were all more or less at the same level):

Meth is/just wants to be a movie/media star, RZA is self-absorbed, Ghost is the disco/soul-hip hop savior, Raekwon is hardcore and boring, Ol Dirty is sad and washed up, and INS/Masta Killa/Cappa/U-God are nore or less forgotten after very underwhelming albums.

x-post- yeah, what paulhw said.

x-post: yeah, its amazing to me that they're still trying to push an artist who cant possibly be doing more than gold in the face of lil jon et al, and yet they want to do absolutely nothing to promote them.

x-post again: yeah the only track that i can think of that even remotely reminds me of the-wu-before-the-wu is "deep cover".

1. what was the deal with the def jam thing mentioned upthread?
2. yeah the only track that i can think of that even remotely reminds me of the-wu-before-the-wu is "deep cover"

"deep cover" from what?

"Hop fences / jump over benches
When you see me comin' get the fuck out the entrance
RUN / fuck that / RUN / cops - got - GUNS!!!"

x-post: yeah, its amazing to me that they're still trying to push an artist who cant possibly be doing more than gold in the face of lil jon et al, and yet they want to do absolutely nothing to promote them.

i've been trying to set up an interview with ghost (or at least get a review copy of pretty tony) to do a feature for a magazine i write for and they have basically ignored me, my editor, baby jesus, the works.

The finished version better motherfucking have "Beatles" on it.

Anyway, I think out of all the Wu-Tang stuff the solo Ghostface will always sound great and stand out to me. (x-post)

As for Wu signing to Aftermath. Oh man. I would kill for an album produced by RZA and Dre. I don't mean, RZA doing 8 tracks and Dre doing 8 tracks, I mean they sit and do each song together. Probably not very likely but.... RZA's crazy musical mind and Dre's ear for sound. Oh yeah and throw in a healhier Wu-Tang - RZA, GZA, Rae, Ghost, INS - and thats the blueprint for what could easily be one of the best hip-hop albums ever. But like I said not very likely.... at least not the way I would have it.

strangely seem to be the first of something, and the last of something at the same time. easy to say they were outside of things, but thats not true, its just that they seemed to close doors and open doors at the same time, to before and after...

possibly suffering now from being associated with a time (mid90s) that is viewed unfavourably at the moment, but, considering this, their stock is still comparatively high, i am sure it will rise more once re-appraisal and distance kicks in.

there were good records from this stable right till the end, but the world they inhabited had closed down, there wasnt the space for them to exist really, only ODB really managed to be something un-wutang, and even then, only for a while

however, this is still certainly a place for their clothing line, i see wu logos on clothes most every day

fwiw i thought "iron flag" was outstanding and an oasis of true hiphop in da mess of overproduction and r&bisation elsewhere

2) i'm thinking all eyez on me debuted number one, maaaaybe cauliflower and the infinite gladbags too? post soundscan era albums are considerably more likely to debut number one than to work their way up the charts to the top.

3) rza doesn't always speak like that.

the most wu-tang sounding thing before wutang was dj muggs. rza loved muggs.

This sentence is half-right (the first half) but the brilliance of that Trackmasters joint only made me want to hear a *more* R&B-ised Wu album!

Musically speaking, RZA rarely uses very noticeable hi-hats in the tracks on 36 Chambers -- he lets the kick and "snare" (not always a drum -- see "Bring da Ruckus") do the work. In contrast to, say, De La, whose production is very extroverted and jubilant, RZA's is very introverted, almost autistic at times. The introverted qualities belie a pretty complex network of samples and drums, though -- it just comes across as more minimal; the manipulations aren't "hey lookee!" but seem to be more organically inseparable parts of the tracks.

A few examples from the top of my head: the subtle and irregular phasing of the snare hits on "Clan in da Front"; the fingersnap snares peppering "Bring da Ruckus"; little ghosts and wisps of samples, nearly inaudible, on many of the tracks (especially "Can It Be All So Simple").

The production seems to have a real presence; it's not just neat sounds over beats (which, sure, I like too), but a physical soundworld it seems the MCs inhabit. It feels like they are *inside* the tracks rather than alongside them. The record feels almost overwhelmingly insular, inward-looking, but without being navel-gazing.

Certainly the PRODUCTION sounds like it could have been done ages ago but Ghost's rap style itself is incredibly groundbreaking and out of this world.

As an aside, the difference between the first Wu and De La was that the first de la was done on a Akai mpc60 which is why is sounds kind of grey and flat, it is like a clean 12 bit sampler with digital filters. De La always sounded cleaner because they used Akai stuff, and never messed with Emu boxes.

But on top of that the perfomances on that record were blazing. I mean you have a full length record and the harshest thing I can say about the vocals are that there are like maybe two 4-bar verses that were just good, not absolutely blistering. From start to finish that record just blazes, everybody is on point and you get the best performances in the best possible order. That record is not just a sequence of tracks, that evoked an entire world with that record. I don't see the suburban comic aspect on the first record, I can see the comic book style to it, but they were just way too dark. Wu was like a claustrophobic b&w film noir art house record. Rza had grit that Geoff Barrow wished he had.

To be perfectly honest, this is my one token favorite hip-hop record. Then again, I think that it is one of my all time top 5 favorites as far as production goes. I think this is one of the all-time best electronic music albums. If you want somebody to show you how to do it right, you could find worse examples. as jess once said, 36 chambers is about as perfect of a listening experience as you can hope to find.

And yes, I own a copy of it still.

36 Chambers has so much latent homosexuality. I think they only even mention women like once. Maybe thats why I liked it so much as a confused and troubled teenager.

-----there's a vvvv RZA sounding sample on "Follow the Leader", maybe there're more on the rest of the Lp, I'll listen out next time. It was more than enough to "remotely remind me" so yippee, I was pretty high tho.

Wu-Tang Clan ain't nuthin t' fuck wit.

Here lies a boatload of videos and shit.

All In Together Now
http://rapidshare.de/files/4010975/all_in_togeather.mp3.html

Those That's Bout It
http://rapidshare.de/files/4010670/those_thats_bout_it.mp3.html