bloated hippie in tiresomely predictable guns/drugs non-shocker

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

― spittle (spittle), Saturday, 6 March 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh what an utter, utter asshole. I thought he was supposedly "a new man," after all that BEHIND THE MUSIC business. Someone please harpoon this irritating whale.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 6 March 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah. As a matter of public policy, I heartily endorse the disarming of David Crosby. My streets are safer. (Literally -- I'm currently sitting about two blocks from where the fathead was busted.)

― spittle (spittle), Saturday, 6 March 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

How to make yourself vomit -- consider that this man:

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2004/03/06/crosby-inside.jpg

...wrote and therefore could still sing these lyrics if he wanted to:

You want to know how it will be
Me and her, or you and me
You both stand there, your long hair flowing
Your eyes alive, your mind still growing
Saying to me what can we do now that we both love you
I love you too
And I don't really see
Why can't we go on as three

You are afraid, embarrassed too
No one has ever said such a thing to you
Your mother's ghost stands at your shoulders
A face like ice, a little bit colder
Saying to you, you cannot do that
It breaks all the rules, you learned in school
But I don't really see
Why can't we go on as three

We love each other, it's plain to see
There's just one answer that comes to be
Sister lovers, water brothers, and in time maybe others
So you see what we can do is to try something new
If you're crazy too
And I don't really see
Why can't we go on as three

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 6 March 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I blame it on gangsta rap.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Saturday, 6 March 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

leave him alone. he rules

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Saturday, 6 March 2004 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I just wish him and grace slick would go out in a blaze of glory and try and take the white house or something. give us something good to remember about their dotage.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 6 March 2004 23:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Funny thing is that the pot is only a misdemeanor, but the weapons charges are felonies. Make love not war, David.

― spittle (spittle), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i've never minded david crosby. and now i feel bad for him, actually.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't really understand why he brings out such venom in people (Ned!), and it's not like I'm a fan.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

ilm haterz shouting "vade retro rockism"=ultimate yawner.

― you will be shot (you will be shot), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't get the crosby hate, either. wr2 crosby stills & nash, i find stephen stills to be IMMEASURABLY more detestable and smug and graham nash must more annoying.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Crosby has written some lovely songs (I should probably d'l If I Could Only Remember My Mame one day), but "Triad" is truly detestable and creepy. I don't especially care that David Crosby always looked like a doughboy or that he wanted to have sex with two women at the same time WHILE he looked like a doughboy, or whatever, that's not what makes him a bad person. No, what's fucked up is how nakedly he's playing to the girl's sense of hippy non-conformity, how she likes to act "crazy" and "rule-breaking" and "alive," just so he can fuck her the way he likes. (You know, he sounds like a cult leader.)

God, think of history would've been different if, instead of writing a song about pushing a girl into a ménage à trois he did a straightforward voyeuristic lesbian fantasy...he'd be thought of as slightly less creepy (of all things), even remarkably prescient given, you know, how 'hot' lesbians are in the straight mind these days.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I know he's a habitual drug user, so the dope isn't really my sticking point. It's his fascination with fuckin' guns that is so utterly mind-boggling.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I should probably d'l If I Could Only Remember My Mame one day

That's the most beautiful accidental misspelling ever.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, go and play Qix OLD MAN.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

God, think of history would've been different if, instead of writing a song about pushing a girl into a ménage à trois he did a straightforward voyeuristic lesbian fantasy...he'd be thought of as slightly less creepy (of all things), even remarkably prescient given, you know, how 'hot' lesbians are in the straight mind these days.

Especially considering what he contributed to one lesbian relationship in particular.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't think I wasn't thinking of that...

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Bless your heart, sir. I couldn't figure out how coy you were being.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.footlightsgallery.com/imagelg/mame.jpg

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I always wondered why a Confederate military legend ended up writing on Broadway.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Or what Bea Arthur was doing in the middle of it.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess I don't get folks who get worked up over lyrics. Like, I can't believe Daddino just wrote two paragraphs about "Triad" being this creepy song. *shrug* I mean, I don't take a purely Raggettian stand towards lyrics - Bob Dylan is absolutely one of my favorite artists of all time - but for the most part I could care less.

I mean, walking around thinking that David Crosby is "creepy"? What a weird way to approach music, songs, words. Grace is the one that chose to sing "Triad" herself, is she "creepy"? For all time? Heck, she changes the words, so in fact it could be about a woman wanting to get with two guys. How dare she!!! Jagger sang about fucking 16 year olds and it really doesn't bother me. They're just words.

Anyway, Crosby would be unbelievably classic for all his work with the Byrds and If I Could Only Remember My Name alone.

― Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael Daddino, I know exactly what you mean about that line "that is if you're crazy too."

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

If I Could Only Remember My Name = classic
guns = classic
drugs = classic
threesomes = classic
Hanging out with Neil Young = classic
Kickass harmonies = classic
Thug Life = classic

I reiterate: LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Right on, man. Fuck this shit, I'm gonna listen to Younger Than Yesterday right now.

― Broheems (diamond), Sunday, 7 March 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

if this was keith richards...

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Sunday, 7 March 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I forgot about the Jefferson Airplane version, but the fact that a woman is singing it (to a man or woman, it's left ambiguous IIRC) doesn't entirely mitigate the sense there's something exploitative going on. Especially since they're supposedly in love, I think the way the singer (or songwriter) equates the doubts of the lover he's addressing with big bad authority figures -- school and a ghostly castrating bitch mom -- is weird and cruel and fucking insensitive.

They're just words.

If being peeved by a song's lyrics is a silly, inappropriate thing to do, then I can't see how any kind of strong emotional reaction to a lyric wouldn't be silly either.

What does "water brothers" mean, btw? Is it an astrology thing? Isn't Gemini a water sign? Or is it water sports between two gay guys?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 7 March 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Grace Slick is...hmm...well, maybe not creepy but like a lot of people I have to wonder how somebody can go from Volunteers to Knee Deep in the Hoopla.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 7 March 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

nah, there was a pit stop - a brilliant, mega-disastrous pit stop - called Manhole.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 7 March 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Crosby's a moderate talent (but only moderate -- he was the third or fourth most talented guy in the Byrds, and no more than second most talented in CSN, and therefore at most third most talented in CSNY). It's just that in every interview I've seen or read with him -- and certainly in everything I've ever read about him -- he comes off as the worst example of unctuous, self-important, opportunisic, faux sensitive hippie boomer dickhead.

― spittle (spittle), Sunday, 7 March 2004 04:09 (twenty-one years ago)

didn't he cut in line on the organ transplant list too?

― keith m (keithmcl), Sunday, 7 March 2004 05:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't believe they still arrest people for marijuana possession.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 7 March 2004 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

"Water brothers is a reference to Robt Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land. I'm embarrassed that I know.
The NYT reported that DC's possession of pot (one oz) was LESS than a misdemeanor. Under the Giuliani regime, any pot bust resulted in a mandatory night spent in a holding cell awaiting arraignment (and dismissal). Don't know if this rule still holds.
Why was this peace n love creep carrying a loaded gun around? Ex hippies can be such hypocrits.

― lovebug starski, Sunday, 7 March 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"Triad" vs "Are You Experienced"

― dave q, Sunday, 7 March 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

'ladyfriend', motherfuckers!!!

― stevie (stevie), Sunday, 7 March 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Why was this peace n love creep carrying a loaded gun around? Ex hippies can be such hypocrits

Apparently he always carries a gun in NYC, and has ever since Lennon was killed. Sounds like doper paranoia, but I've got no particular ill will towards the man.

"Everybody's Been Burned" is classic.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

He's always been a gun nut. A lot of those '60s guys, espcially those like Crosby who have a lot of burned-out, dirtbag, walking wounded-types for fans got really freaked out after Lennon was murdered.

― shookout, Wednesday, 10 March 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

The constant invocations to Lennon's murder bug me, only because it seems so utterly presumptious on Crosby's part that people would give enough of a fuck about him to want to stalk and summarily slay him because of how his music has touched their lives (...or whatever Mark David Chapman's excuse was). I mean, there are times when I think Crosby should indeed be stalked and slain, but for entirely different reasons.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

was Art Garfunkel packing heat when he got popped?

― lovebug starski, Thursday, 11 March 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I have to say that the only person who had much right to be really worried then was David Bowie, since apparently Chapman was going to decide between him and Lennon.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 March 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

destroy-David in a threesome imagery

search-Why? and Ladyfriend indeed. Perfect songs.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 11 March 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

Is it just me or does the Crosby-hate stem just from how
damn ugly he is these days? I mean, OK, he didn't age gracefully.
Seems unfair to hold that against him.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I think it has more to do with his hypocrisy and his drug-fueled paranoia, personally.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but if he a lean sexy beast would he get so much shit.
Upthread he was branded a "boomer, "doughboy", and "OLD MAN"

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Marijuana isn't a drug, at least not a real one. I know plenty of people who are anti-drug yet pro-pot. I mean...I'm not a David Crosby fan...but criticizing a hippie for smoking herb is like getting upset that 50 Cent was caught jay walking. You people just want a reason to hate.

― s>c>, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

He's done much harder stuff than marijuanna.

Stop hating hate!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

How is he a hypocrite? He's been pro-gun since before he was even semi-famous. On record. Even in the 'peace & love' sixties. And weed? Who cares? It's not the same thing as the hard drugs he abused for years. Like most hate-threads on ILM, the hate has everything to do with what the artist REPRESENTS to the hater than what he or she has actually done/produced.

― shookout (shookout), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't think of anything worthwhile that Crosby has contributed to music. Couple that with his obnoxious public persona (like insisting on carrying a gun on-stage while on tour w/CSNY) and voila! the hate just bubbles forth naturally.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

How is he a hypocrite?

About his drug taking. Check out the "Behind the Music" episode on him for details.

He's been pro-gun since before he was even semi-famous. On record. Even in the 'peace & love' sixties.

And that's fucked up, don't you think?

And weed? Who cares? It's not the same thing as the hard drugs he abused for years. Like most hate-threads on ILM, the hate has everything to do with what the artist REPRESENTS to the hater than what he or she has actually done/produced.

Would you fuckin' relax? I'm a fan of CSNY and the Byrds, but that doesn't make the man any less of a pathetic embarassment.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Since when was carrying a gun "obnoxious" ? It seems like
perfectly acceptable behavior to me.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

You east-coasters just have these bizarre gerbil-colony
phobias that I can't understand.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Young Buck smokes weed and carries a gun too, and y'all think he's
cooler than cool.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"Since when was carrying a gun "obnoxious" ? It seems like
perfectly acceptable behavior to me. "

As one of the CSNY roadies remarked about Crosby's insistence on going out onstage with a concealed weapon - "What's he gonna do? Whip it out and start shooting at the crowd?"

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

and I don't see how the hypocrisy of a "we stopped a war maaaaan" hippie carrying a gun could be any more obvious. Same with the drug thing - how many times have we heard about Crosby's "struggles" or how much he's helped other recovering addicts and what a hard thing it is to quit, but if Crosby did it you can to and he'll tell you how! And then it turns out he's still carrying around a POUND of weed. I mean, that's a lot...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Guns are practical accessories for an anti-government activist.
They are the perfect equalizer - the man can't fuck with you, or you
fuck with them.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"What's he gonna do? Whip it out and start shooting at the crowd?"

Take that one out of context and oh the fun.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

oh so armed revolt, THAT'S the real message of "Teach Your Children".

I think yr line of reasoning is highly suspect - Crosby wasn't an "anti-government activist" on a par with say, John Sinclair. He was a coked-up rock star with some pretty harmonies who was along for the ride. But feel free to prove me wrong offering anecdotes of Crosby on the front-lines with the Black Panthers, or him advocating armed revolution, or him ever even being arrested for something activist-related. His whole gun thing was an extension of his ego/cock/rockstar thing - ie, look at me I'm a badass with my sixgun. Too bad he didn't blow his own head off in some coke-addled "accident".

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, Shakey, now you're arguing with yourself. If he wasn't
an activist, there's no hypocrisy, since he didn't really mean
any of that peace & luv shit.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

In case you forgot what you wrote, it was

"and I don't see how the hypocrisy of a "we stopped a war maaaaan" hippie carrying a gun could be any more obvious."

If he didn't mean it, then it's not hypocritical.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

just disingenuous

― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:23 (twenty-one years ago)

no no no, you're missing the underlying point, which is that Crosby is ALL TALK. He *didn't* mean that peace and love shit - just like he didn't mean that anti-drug stuff - but he went ahead and said those kinds of things and grandstands in public like he means it. When it's clear from his actions that he doesn't. He would say things like CSNY helped stopped the Vietnam War, but that's just his inflated ego talking, assigning importance to a couple of their songs (and he didn't write "Ohio" btw) when there probably isn't any. Thus, the accusations of hypocrisy, being disengenuous, etc.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean if you're gonna portray yourself as a peace-lovin person, you shouldn't be waving a gun around. And if you're gonna tell people they shouldn't do drugs, you shouldn't be doing 'em yrself.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Gun issue: To me, personally carrying a gun does not contradict
an anti-war stance.

Drug issue: Pot is not a "drug" in the sense that the word is used.
The word is used to lump in pot, speed, meth, coke, vicodin and
any and all substance that the government has stamped "EVIL" in
bright red ink. In fact, pot has almost nothing in common with those
substances. The scientific evidence against pot is very shakey,
and quite a few scientists have started to come around on the
side of "pot is really quite harmless." The anti-marijuana
campaign has become a self-feeding cultural phenomenon that has
nothing to do with the facts.

So it is not disingenous to smoke pot and speak out actively against
"hard drugs" like cocaine and heroin. Not if you understand
the issue properly.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

If you want to debate the term "drug" we could be here all night... If Crosby's ever offered a nuanced explanation of how arming private citizens goes hand in hand with restraining the military adventures of an capitalist, imperialist country I sure haven't heard it. That's not to say that argument can't be made - just that Crosby doesn't make it. Probably because he was too busy snorting coke and having "Triads" with runaway hippie chicks to develop any semblance of an actual political philosophy.

(I feel I should point out here that I am both gun-friendly and a heavy pot-smoker, I'm not coming from some puritanical point of view here. My main complaint is that Crosby says one thing and does another and does them very publicly in a really irritating, self-congratulatory manner).

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Shakey Mo is My HERO!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 14 April 2004 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.