David Bowie's roundly maligned, nazi cocainey live album, STAGE: Classic or Dud?

pretty good IIRC. I'm suprised this is considered a dud. Maybe one of those you-like-the-versions-you-hear-first moments but I was kinda dissapointed when I finally got to hear the studio version of 'Station To Station' (and 'TVC15' too btw.)

YES!

More of this.... http://www.miromi.org/img/draw/journal_drawings/2001/07/bowie-eberlin.jpg .... less of this.... http://davidbowielp.chez.tiscali.fr/video/15.jpg

Stage [RCA Victor, 1978]
If James Brown is the only rock and roller who deserves more than one concert album, then the Bowie to ban is David Live. Stage kicks off with some well-chosen Bowie oldies before moving into refreshingly one-dimensional versions of his best songs since 1975, including the key Eno collaborations, which were often oversubtle to begin with. For fans only, of course. I'm one. B+

Anyway, as noted above, the version of "Station to Station" is just MONSTROUS -- hands down one of Bowie's best numbers ever. It, "Warszawa" and the spectacular version of "Breaking Glass" were the three tracks from Stage that appeared on the original teaser Sound and Vision box from 1989 which heralded the reissues -- my eighteen year old self was blown away and eagerly looked forward to the full reissue, only to be a little disappointed with the rest of it. Still, it's been a while, might have to give a go again.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000635M.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

and i seriously doubt that stage is worse than david live.

Alex, I seriously think you got your David "Coke" Bowie live records mixed up. David Live suffers from mediocrity and coked up urgency that undermines the performances.. whereas Stage soars.. in my opinion. Also, did Bowie clean up right around Station To Station/Young Americans anyway?

first, stevie ray vaughan; and then, charlie sexton. 80s bowie sure had a weird thing w/ rootsy texas guitarists, no?

The thing that really bugs me about Hendrix is the way that he's always asking me questions. "Are you experienced?" No. "Have you ever been to Electric Ladyland?" No - I didn't even know that studio was still around! "Can I stand next to your fire?" No! I paid a lot of money for this fire, and I'd rather not have you vomiting all over it. (A TRUE conspiracy theory = A. Jimi Hendrix was afraid of his manager, who had been linked to the mafia and the CIA. B. The amount of alcohol in Jimi Hendrix's stomach was more than a human being could drink in the time period it would have taken to cause his vomiting death; in other words, the wine was FORCED down his throat. C. Jimi Hendrix's manager made more money from releasing postmortem Hendrix releases than he ever made while Jimi was alive. IT'S TRUE! I heard it from a source of questionable reliability!). So whenever I'm in the mood for some good old black person funky rock music with SOUL, I turn to David Live.

I bet you're thinking to yourself, "Gee, I've never heard anybody make that argument about this album before." Well, that's because IT'S NOT FUCKING TRUE!!!! WHY THE FUCK HAS "THE GREAT WHITE MORON" DECIDED THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO TAKE GREAT OLD GLAM CLASSICS LIKE "REBEL REBEL," "SUFFRAGETTE CITY," "ALADDIN SANE" AND "ROCK AND ROLL SUICIDE" -- AND COMPLETELY REMOVE EVERY SEMBLANCE OF "MELODY" THAT THE SONGS EVER HAD?!?!?!?!!? DOES HE HONESTLY THINK THIS IS "SOUL" MUSIC BECAUSE HE'S GOT THE "MEDIOCRE WHITE DUKE" DAVID SANBORN PLAYING A SAXOPHONE? OR BECAUSE HE TOLD THE GUITAR PLAYER, "DON'T PLAY THE ACTUAL MELODIES. JUST PLAY REALLY REALLY LONG SOLOS THAT DON'T GO ANYWHERE"? OR BECAUSE HE'S WEARING A STUPID WHITE "MATURE" SUIT AND REDUCES THE VOCAL MELODIES TO HIS MISGUIDED APPROXIMATION OF "SEXY" HALFASSED SPEAK-SING? THIS ALBUM IS A PIECE OF SHIT ALL DRESSED UP LIKE A FANCYPANTS! LOOK AT THAT DUMBASS PHOTO OF HIM ON THE COVER!!!!

NOW FOR THAT PHOTO TO HAVE APPEARED ON THE COVER MEANS THAT MR. BOWIE MUST HAVE LOOKED AT IT LONG AND HARD AND THOUGHT TO HIMSELF, "MAN, I LOOK REALLY GOOD WITH MY TIMELESS WHITE SUIT AND "SHORT IN FRONT, LONG ON THE SIDES" HAIRCUT. AND THAT LOOK ON MY FACE? I LOOK LIKE A FULL WEEK OF NONSTOP ASSFUCKING HAS CREATED A BACKUP OF HARDENED FECAL MATTER IN MY LOWER INTESTINES! AWESOME! LET'S GO WITH IT!"

Having said that, David Live (to my ears much more cokey than Stage) is my favorite regular Bowie live album, though that may very well change once I’ve seen the Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars DVD I bought today...

(x-post: Eisbär; hilarious review! I do love that album though...)

Oh don't get me wrong, man. I know there was still a Himalayan-sized mound of coke involved with David Live, but by then he'd renounced his love for Kraftwerk and Teutonic Totalitarianism in favour of polyester leisure suits and bullshit Philadelphia Soul (sorry,but I fuckin' hate that shit!)

Beyond that, I quite enjoy the longer "Breaking Glass", prefer the "TVC-15" to the original and love the hyper-fast version of "Hang On To Yourself."

xp really think the 2000s reissue/remix/rework is an improvement over all earlier versions

Is this album called STAGE because of the Elvis album ON STAGE?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b0/On_Stage_February,_1970.jpg/220px-On_Stage_February,_1970.jpg

that's half a heroes pose!

eheh. indeed not far from the heroes cover !

and on Bowie RIP thread was suggested a rumour that Elvis had reached out (?) for Bowie to produce an album for him

there's this part during an interview with Conan where he was talking about Elvis (starting at 1:10) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4d8QrRJvsE

musically, I could imagine something circa young Americans/Station to Station.

lots of fun clips in that one

(xpost) I imagine more like Bowie's version of "God Only Knows," i.e. not good.

and on Bowie RIP thread was suggested a rumour that Elvis had reached out (?) for Bowie to produce an album for him

― niels, Friday, January 22, 2016 5:25 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I imagine this sounding like Scott Walker's Nite Flights tracks. Elvis was still in peak voice in '77, and likely eager to get off the treadmill -- sobriety in Berlin with Bowie would've done him a world of good. But the Colonel wouldn't have entertained such an idea for more than half a second.

come on, "golden years" IS an Elvis track !

hey yeah that actually makes sense

ahah, this is so lame !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPdGVbxqtCE

Not clicking, think I already listened to something like that.

Love this video of Bowie skulking about the Hansa studio playing/recording "Sense of Doubt":

http://youtu.be/IocSP9Mp-Dk

Think it's safe to suggest that had Bowie released The Gouster instead of YA it would have been more of a novelty/cult classic than YA... it's... kinda boring?

yeah, I was curious about that, having no idea what it was all about, but it's just some kind of alternate YA (no better nor worse, afaic).
there's something else that grabbed me on the new compilation.
it's the StS 2010 Harry Maslin remix : what's that ?
It's really different from the original mix.

yeah sry should have posted in the RIP thread, the Maslin mix is mentioned there - apparently it's more in accord with Bowie's original vision or smth?

And it's TVC15, not StS, isn't it? I don't have the reissue to check

it's the whole album ! (yeah, I guess it's not the proper thread to discuss that)

Oh yeah it is the whole album! (It's on spotify)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/8980/thread/1474856664/last-1475166652/Station+To+Station+%28Harry+Maslin+mix%29

I found this discussion about it.
I haven't listened to the whole remixed album yet but I did notice that the drums were further in the mix and sound very different.
and many new things appear (like the "TVC15" intro, etc).

Hadn't heard of this Maslin mix, listening to TVC now. Piano is pushed so far forward it sounded like a Professor Longhair record at the start. (A reference point I never picked up on before.) Will have to spend time with the rest.

I don't know where to post this but RIP Simon House

This album is a document of the greatest band ever assembled IMO

thank you, was thinking about that because I saw the RIP posts

In terms of live albums from this era, I actually prefer Welcome to the Blackout (Live London '78) which was posthumously released - it was actually meant to be a film, but apparently there are technical problems with the visuals. (I'm hoping it's something current digital technology can fix, because it would be amazing to get a great concert film of this tour, though tbf we already have good broadcast-quality footage of certain performances.) And naturally, Simon House is on the album as well.

I like both about equally (the most recent remix/remaster of Stage) but they’re surprisingly different from each other.

It’s got strong “We are going to stretch this jam out because it’s the last song before we come back for an encore” vibes but the version of “Stay” they added to later versions of this really cooks.

I remember being disappointed that "Breaking Glass" didn't have anything new in it - the band just repeats the ending. And yet how can that song be extended without ruining the effect? A while back I bought a cheap CD boxed set called Zeit that had the three Berlin-era albums plus Stage. It almost felt like a bootleg (the cover of Low had really bad printing) but it was apparently official.

I admire the guts of playing the ambient songs from Low, and the CD version has the tracks flow together instead of having gaps. I'm torn between a desire to try and say something new and original, which is hard because I'd have to do some thinking and it would be a lie, and "it sounds like the album versions", which is easy and basically true.

I just have a horrible mental aversion to Adrian Belew. I'm sure he's a great guy. I just can't stand people who play the guitar too much. No, I can't stand it when people play the guitar too much. I have nothing against the people. The people are good. People are an asset. It's the act I can't stand. It's the act.

Belew's Hawaiian shirts don't do him any favors either.

This album kind of sucks really. Best live Bowie album I've heard is Live in Santa Monica '72.

nazi
cocainey

This album rules

was it really "roundly maligned" at the time?

This is the live Bowie album that I listen to the least.

Wait a second. I was confusing Stage with David Live. Never mind!

David Live is one of the live Bowie albums that I listen to the most.

He's clearly off his face on coke though.

In terms of live albums from this era, I actually prefer Welcome to the Blackout (Live London '78)

https://i.discogs.com/IUQpGjlITjkqWmeVM-fDgwcsHDRLeqiDz4kIPXWAzHY/rs:fit/g:sm/q:40/h:300/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTExODkx/NDkyLTE3NDA5MzUx/NDktNTAyNi5qcGVn.jpeg

I can't believe no reviewer took the opportunity to use the descriptor "even more Nazi cocainey..."

Or at least Veronika Voss-y.

Welcome to the Blackout is p damned good. I played it at my Memorial Day BBQ yesterday and hardly anyone stopped their Mercedes to salute the Führer.
.

On the subject of cocaine-addled posh Nazis, one thing that haunts me is John Amery's epitaph, written by his dad. Amery was one of a handful of British people executed for treason as a result of his activities in the Second World War:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Amery

That article contains one of the few images of Alan Whicker arresting a turncoat Nazi propagandist. Amery was hanged in December 1945. His epitaph was:

"At end of wayward days he found a cause /
'twas not his country's - only time can tell /
if that defiance of our ancient laws /
was treason or foreknowledge. He sleeps well."

There's something deeply odd about the idea that John Amery was ahead of his time. Luckily fascism died a death in 1945 and hasn't returned. Something something David Bowie. As a closeted Numanoid it's obvious that Gary Numan based his 1979/1980 Teletour on the Isolar II stage set, with the neon lights. The bizarre thing is that Numan apparently wasn't off his head on cocaine at the time. He was instead off his head on Thatcherism! Which was powerful stuff back then.

The only song I return to from this is "Station to Station", which version I first heard on the Christiane F. soundtrack.
Visconti said that they purposely mixed each song in the style of the original studio recordings, which maybe explains why I'm content to listen to those studio albums.

StS is definitely the high point for me

Waiting For The Blackout is good too! I got it as a gift a few years back and was pleasantly surprised.

"At end of wayward days he found a cause /
'twas not his country's - only time can tell /
if that defiance of our ancient laws /
was treason or foreknowledge. He sleeps well."

There's something deeply odd about the idea that John Amery was ahead of his time.

i thought it was an interesting epitaph and i looked up who wrote it

his dad, leo

i think of it as a personal question first and foremost... the fact that he was a tory, that he was an anti-nazi tory, that Leo's belief in the British Empire is more similar to John's belief in Hitler than Leo wanted to acknowledge, these are... important, but not _the_ most important thing to me.

i don't have any kids myself. it seems to me, though, that one of the most awful things a parent can suffer is the death of one of their children. when that death is... amery deserved to die. nazi propagandists deserve to die. most nazis were, uh, "rehabilitated", but the propagandists... when they put on the trials, priority was given to the propagandists. i think it's right to have a special disgust and horror for those people.

i have a hard enough time dealing with relatives my own age who cape for evil in various ways. not trumpism. there are many sorts of evil. that's another complicated thing for me. "the enemy of my enemy is my enemy" kind of thing. i don't lack in conviction, but what, exactly, am i supposed to believe in? who am i supposed to support? i see so much wrong and so little right.

but then bowie... so complicated. brilliant, protean, queer... traumatized survivor... occult nazi cocaine rapist. and how much of that was america? he idolizes america, and he comes to live here, he starts making soul music... how many fascists fetishize Black Americans?... and immediately the nazi coke shit comes out. there's always been something fucked about america.

i love so much of what he did, and he was a monster. i love so much about america, and america is a monstrosity. i don't agree with nietzsche. fighting monsters doesn't make me a monster. i just get too tired to fight, sometimes. particularly when i have to fight against people i love and/or people i admire. what am i supposed to do? take his place as a queer person? people need "heroes", and queer people are no exception.

blackstar scares me because that record... he talked about it being inspired by the vorticists. was it foreknowledge? no, but bowie's futurism was always fascist. "gotta make way for the homo superior" and all that. i'm not _superior_. he wasn't _superior_.

it's "all the madmen" that connects with me. what he saw his brother go through. that's what i mean by "traumatized survivor". you grow up with that kind of madness in your family and the unfairness of it, the suffering, the early death, and... i don't know about him, but there's part of me that's always questioned. could i be mad? could that be me, could that happen to me? because there's no such thing as madness, really. there are just people who go through some fucked up shit and have trouble dealing with it, sometimes deal with it poorly.

sure, i'd rather be a madman than a fascist. of course, it's always possible to be both. easy to be both. fascism is an addiction. cocaine... i don't know. i've never done cocaine. to me, having an unhealthy relationship with fascism is like having an unhealthy relationship with food. i mean you gotta eat, as the Rally's fast food slogan went. you gotta live with fascism, with fascists, every day, particularly in America. i'd be happier if i could get along better with fascists. if i could be a Bad Gay, if i could think of myself as a "homo superior".

i think _stage_ is good. my favorite simon house was his stuff with High Tide, tho. i think belew was at his best early on. i'm grateful to bowie for saving belew from the clutches of zappa. that he royally pissed zappa off by doing so is just a bonus. i also think belew is interesting for not doing a lot of drugs, as far as i can tell. he's a better guitarist for it, but sometimes i do find him disappointingly "normal". there's nothing wrong with being "normal", though!

David Live was the first Bowie CD I had. I must have gotten it as a pick of the month from BMG. I love it but that’s probably because I heard it early on.

The Cracked Actor and Soul Tour albums that have since come out are much better.

Yeah, I just listened to I’m Only Dancing (The Soul Tour ‘74) for the first time … I always felt slightly cheated that between that cover and the fact that it was recorded in Philly David Live wasn’t more of a transitional release for him. This one is.

The Soul Tour album is probably the biggest revelation to come out since Bowie died. His estate has put out a ton of extra releases but that’s the one I’d pick. Welcome To The Blackout is pretty close though.