Whining About How Supposedly Great Hair Metal Was Until Mean Old Grunge Wiped It Out C/D?

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Admittedly I didn't come of age in that era, but it's so annoying to me when I hear people go on about that. Especially on those VH1 specials. But I'm sure many of you disagree and have your own perspectives. Please discuss.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 7 March 2004 22:56 (twenty-one years ago)

When it comes from musicians who seem to think their era of fame is the only one of musical merit that matters, dud (the same applies to whatever the people in bands like the Gin Blossoms or Stone Temple Pilots or the like are also saying nowadays, etc.)

When it comes from people remembering joys of youth, perfectly classic and understandable.

When it comes from Chuck Klosterman, theoretically great except for all the ham-handed apologetics and conclusive defensiveness.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd still take LA Guns over Disturbed any fucking day.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd take the rotting corpse of Buster Bloodvessel's roadie over Disturbed, this isn't saying much.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Dud of course. For years those hair band posers were THE ENEMIES OF METAL and now we're supposed to feel sorry for them?
- caricature of self anno 1988

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

the stories of the hair-metallers themselves are pretty entertaining. and it's still fun to make fun of them. and i DID kinda like motley crue and poison.

other than that ... there WAS a reason why the demise of hair-metal was greeted with much rejoicing. guess you had to be there -- and be in yer 20s.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

My only problem with the genre known as "hair metal" is that on the whole the form had been pretty much perfected by 1983. So, um, then it kept going for another 9 or 10 years.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm all for people sticking up for the music that they love and trying to fight a decade of revisionist history with their own revisionist history, but personally, it makes me cringe a bit because I do think that the overwhelming majority of hair metal was godawful.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I was listening to Hell Hath No Fury by Rock Goddess the other day and that came out in 1984 and in a lot of ways it's a precursor to a ton of stuff that came out 5 years later and in a lot of ways its even better than the stuff that would come out 5 years later and it's not even a great example of the scene/genre/sound. So, yeah, I mean by the time that all the L.A. stuff hit it big it was pretty much a dead end anyway and i suppose the same thing could be said about 80's alt/grunge/touch&go sludge taking that particular backwoods noiserock sound to its logical conclusion long before grunge hit it big. None of this is news though. It's the story of rock & roll.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:46 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, i don't really wanna listen to Poison or Mudhoney to tell ya the truth. But i was listening to scratch acid and hanoi rocks the other day.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Dud. I mean it took me a year (and may I add a year when I was young and immature and not yet accustomed to the whims and trend-infected aspect of the music industry) to stop whining about the fact that ska had taken grunge out of the airwaves, so I think TWELVE FUCKING YEARS!!! is enough time to get over the fact that Nirvana made Poison look like the idiots they were.
Anyway, 60's psychedelia ran over 50s pop, which later transformed into 70s classic rock, which was ran over by disco, which was ran over by 70s classic rock again, which was ran over by punk, which transformed into new wave, which was ran over by hair metal, which was ran over by grunge, which was ran over by ska, which was ran over by nu-metal, which is being ran over by corporate emo influenced bands (well, I don't know, I don't know what the kids listen to this days). This is the historical road map of music for MTV.
I learned a long time ago that by actually giving a shit about the music that was in or 'hot' at the moment would impede with my appreciating a lot of music out there that most people didn't give attention to, but that was worth much more than the crap they play on the radio.

― Cacaman Flores, Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Now THAT'S s post.

regards,

REB

― Rik E Boy (Rik E Boy), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I sold my NUKE SEATTLE shirt a few weeks ago -- no, I never wore it once. This is a rich vein for comedy, (Stryper with beards, classic!) but honestly I think thrash killed glam. Nirvana were never as big as Metallica, except on TV. So Dud, with an asterix that sez read chapter XIII of your favorite HM history book.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Nirvana were never as big as Metallica, except on TV.

Perception is sometimes all. As it stands, Metallica are pretty much the oldies circuit now -- friend went to a show the other night and was amused at how much of the setlist was strictly eighties -- but Nirvana WILL NEVER GROW OLD MAN etc. etc. like I really care.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Am I imagining it, or is there a bit of an upsurge in glam metal at the moment?

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Only this weekend I saw a band that were like Motley Crue, playing to an audience of 150 like they were 150,000.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 02:17 (twenty-one years ago)

well the darkness are doing rather well.

― ..., Tuesday, 9 March 2004 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I know these things endlessly swallow each other in twenty year cycles...

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

You guys are missing it: Mike Monroe of Hanoi Rocks is upset that Motley Crue is titling its upcoming boxset 'Music to Crash Your Car By." Okay, it's in bad taste considering Crue singer Vince Neil did a bit of vehicular manslaughter in the mid-80s that killed Hanoi's drummer and put the driver of the oncoming car in a wheelchair. So Motley Crue might change the title, you think? No way, Jose! Nikki Sixx's bandmate Tracii Guns unleashes a scathing rebuttal, mocking Mike Monroe and saying things like "man, we were gonna cover 'Until I Get You' to slide you some publishing...kiss that goodbye!" Whoa. So if you like catfights, glam's not really dead at all.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 04:40 (twenty-one years ago)

So I see you check Metal Sludge every day too.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree that grunge was, on the whole, much better as an overall genre. But does this really happen all that often?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 05:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Dud. But can someone explain to me the second coming of Pour Some Sugar on Me?

― Shaun (shaun), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 06:39 (twenty-one years ago)

classic. i've never whinged that particular sentiment myself, but i'd give anyone who did a medal.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 08:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt is OTM. An unfortunate side effect of the VH1 specials is that they are a forum for hair metal alumni to spout revisionist history. Guys are on there saying how punk they were, or how much they sounded like 60's garage rock instead of the hand-on-my-cock-and-girls-on-my-lap crap they were actually playing. It's just smacks of someone trying to convince themselves/us that they were more important and influential than they actually were.

But if it's all in good fun, then huzzah, classic, like Ned said. Hair metal bands always have the best groupie stories.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 09:37 (twenty-one years ago)

but honestly I think thrash killed glam

I never really bought that theory, the heydays of thrash were 85-90 (ie the same years glam was popular). Unlike grunge, thrash never got any airplay on radio/MTV at any stage. And it was never aimed at the general (pop) audience either.

― Siegbran (eofor), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

At the time (12) Nirvana was exciting/loud, hair metal boring and quiet, so dud

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 11:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Headbangers Ball on MTV covered thrash pretty well at the time. "Peace Sells" was a huge video. It wasn't absent from MTV at any rate. At least in the states.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, i never would have seen Testament, Slayer, Exodus, etc, videos if it weren't for MTV. Anthrax were popular on MTV. Again, this is just the states. I don't know about the rest of the world.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

And there was lots of thrash on college radio, if not commercial radio.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Guys are on there saying how punk they were, or how much they sounded like 60's garage rock instead of the hand-on-my-cock-and-girls-on-my-lap crap they were actually playing.

I remember a MM piece with Bon Jovi (of all things) back in 93, 94 when he was insisting with a straight face that Bon Jovi had inspired grunge. Desperation tactics ahoy!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe as a reaction against Bon Jovi. He might have a point.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

nine months pass...

Matt is OTM. An unfortunate side effect of the VH1 specials is that they are a forum for hair metal alumni to spout revisionist history...
I always loved how the cock rock behind-the-musics (Poison, Motley Crue) would follow the same scheduled set of events...
5 Mintues into the show: Band is a bunch of nobodies playing in a garage.
15 Minutes into the show: They put out an album and start getting lots of money and poonannie.
Minutes 16 through 45: Kings of the World, Babay!
Minutes 46-55: Shocking drug revelation followed by more King of the World nonsense.
Minute 56: Band members sitting on tall stools looking all dejected while the frontman solemnly intones "Yeah...Nirvana pretty much ended our careers."
Minute 57 until the end of the show: Voice over narraration intones "But they soldiered on, putting out their most (giggle) adventurous album yet, 'Complete Irrelevence!'; Unfortunately, it sank without a trace....but the band still tours (on the oldies circuit) and will continue to rock you like a hurricane...or something. (background music swells) Through the heartache and the pain, they still keep rockin' on..." Credits roll.

But if it's all in good fun, then huzzah, classic, like Ned said. Hair metal bands always have the best groupie stories.
I thought the Mud Shark incident pretty much topped any groupie story that could ever come after that.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe as a reaction against Bon Jovi. He might have a point.

No, this was as straight-faced claim.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

but Nirvana WILL NEVER GROW OLD MAN etc. etc.

Am I gonna have to be the totally un-PC person who points out why that is? (And yeah I know Ned wasn't seriously saying it.)

I'm not gonna conjecture about what would be happening if Nirvana (or at least Kurt) still existed, but please...

C.C. is one haggard motherfucker now, but I still think he's about as punk rock as they come. (I do however recognize that he does not accurately represent most hair metal survivors.)

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I knew it was time to get out of Austin when I read the posting on the Sound Exchange window that said Kurt Cobain of Nirvina (sic) had died.

― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 22 December 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

If Kurt were alive . . . he'd be Stipe's lover, right?

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 23 December 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

And Morrissey would write bitter songs about it all.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 23 December 2004 01:53 (twenty-one years ago)

That's the plot of Velvet Goldmine II: Eclectic Boogaloo right there.

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 23 December 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

And Morrissey would write bitter songs about it all.

"Seattle, So Much To Answer For."

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Thursday, 23 December 2004 04:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"Atlanta Spawned A Monster"

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 23 December 2004 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

"I Have Forgiven Krist Novoselic"

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 23 December 2004 04:36 (twenty-one years ago)

And Morrissey would write bitter songs about it all.
"Seattle, So Much To Answer For."
and will the answer song will be called "Johnny Marr will get his Revenge on Manchester"?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 23 December 2004 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

The problem with this as a musician's whine is, well, what idiot baboon of a musician doesn't have some inkling from the get-go that styles do in fact change? This complaint seems particular to hair-metal bands because they somehow developed the fiction that what they were doing was some natural good-time extension of classic rock and even punk, despite its being one of the most ridiculously stylized and affected fantasy-music genres of all time -- and so when the ground was, as always, pulled right out from under them, they seemed kinda comically baffled: "What the hell? People liked us! We were having fun! Fuck grunge!" It was kinda the biggest irrational overvalued music "bubble" I can think of.

Except! Funnily at the same time there was a completely parallel shift with hip-hop, right? Surely there is plenty of footage out there of MC Hammer and Heavy D complaining about NWA or Public Enemy or somesuch. I spent a lot of last year watching documentaries -- long story -- many of them from the early 90s, and what started to strike me after a while was that across the first half of the decade the entire national culture seemed to be going through a process of de-cheesification, a big sudden shift from "entertainment" entertainment toward entertainment with pretensions toward something more, even if it was just "lifestyle" stuff. (There's an age-demographic shift that went with this, I think, but that's another post.) Biggest indicator of this shift, weirdly = conceptions of typical "hot girl."

― nabiscothingy (nory), Thursday, 23 December 2004 05:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you mean Tawny Kitaen to Courtney Love?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 23 December 2004 05:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure Courtney Love was considered a "hot girl" type at that point, Custos: I'm just talking about generic nameless "hot girl" placeholders in films and on TV and such. Hair and breasts both seem to deflate violently around 1993.

― nabiscothingy (nory), Thursday, 23 December 2004 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I suspect that the Kate Moss/Heroin Chic thing has to take alot of blame for that.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 23 December 2004 06:51 (twenty-one years ago)

And now we have J. Lo and Beyonce bringing back hair and breasts? Am I reading culture correctly?

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 23 December 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Cindy Crawford beat up Kate Moss and Anna Nicole Smith swallowed her whole.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 23 December 2004 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Point, nabisco.

However, can we get back to making fun of both genres? Preferably with as little taste as possible?

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 23 December 2004 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh classic, natch. Anything that involves whining is obviously so classic.

― Angrymatopoeia, Thursday, 23 December 2004 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, what about the hair metal survivors who have actually started new bands? How come none of them seem to have caught on? Cause say what you will, but some of those guys are actually pretty damned talented musicians.

The Mothers (C.C. DeVille's band) are actually pretty good, but what was the deal with Tommy Lee's other band? I don't even remember the name of it. I just know there was a song used in Crazy Taxi and some other videogame.

I mean out of both genres who has survived with a second career other than Mr. Grohl? I guess you can count that freakish abomination that is Velvet Revolver...

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 23 December 2004 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"C.C. is one haggard motherfucker now, but I still think he's about as punk rock as they come."

he also has possibly the coolest speaking voice in rock!

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 23 December 2004 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, Tommy Lee's band... nobody look it up. Can anybody just remember it? I bet you can't. I cant. It's like Monsters of Mayhem or Mothers of Mayhem or something. They sang that song "get naked."

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 23 December 2004 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

methods of mayhem? i saw 'em (along with a bunch of other shitty bands) at ozzfest 2000, which is kind of embarrassing to admit. it was worth waiting through ll that to see pantera, who completely pwned that day though, i'll tell you what.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 23 December 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

the cloud of weed smoke hovering above the crowd during their set was so large it seemed to move in an almost intentional, dare i say "sentient" manner.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 23 December 2004 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't remember the name of Tommy Lee's band for the life of me, but I'm ashamed to admit that I remember that one of the guys from hed(pe) was in it and that there was a video with L'il Kim riding a giant cock.

― ng, Thursday, 23 December 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"C.C. is one haggard motherfucker now, but I still think he's about as punk rock as they come."
he also has possibly the coolest speaking voice in rock!

CC DeVille and Johanna Newsom -same person??

― LSTD (answer) (sexyDancer), Thursday, 23 December 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

CC DeVille was AMAZING on Rock'N'Roll Jeopardy.

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 24 December 2004 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Tommy Lee's band was called Methods of Mayhem.

― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Friday, 24 December 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

TS: Vixen vs Hole

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 24 December 2004 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i think hair metal was the unsung progression of power pop. Listen to "Feel" by Big Star and tell me that ain't Def Lepard '72.

Anyway, I always liked this bit written by glenn mcdonald about a memorable Lita Ford TV interview... just because I found it a memorable moment as well and I don't know why.

http://www.furia.com/twas/twas0459.html

-----
One of the most oddly and enduringly moving things I've ever seen on television was in a VH1 retro-special about the vanished age of heavy metal. Most of it was about old hair-band veterans playing bleary nostalgia package-tours, but there was a short interview with Lita Ford, and at one point there was a shot of her huddled on the beach in what was plainly not beach weather, earnestly telling the camera that some day metal will be back. On the global scale of human pathos, this isn't much, and for what it is it was probably even staged, but it got to me anyway, as if it was the sun that had died, and nobody had really explained it to her, and she was going to slowly freeze to death there on the sand still believing that it would flare back into life any moment.
--------

The band Betty Blowtorch wrote a song referencing this. It's called something like "Big Hair, Broken Heart".

― ouou, Saturday, 25 December 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

Admittedly I didn't come of age in that era, but it's so annoying to me when I hear people go on about that. Especially on those VH1 specials. But I'm sure many of you disagree and have your own perspectives.

I was around then and knew people into it , and its still annoying to me why they whinge about it. Like I said on Why is The Genre Of 'Metal' so maligned?

The funny thing is I don't remember any of the grunge bands moaning how nu-metal killed grunge off. So why the hair-metallers felt they have a divine right to success is beyond me.

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 6 January 2008 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

Funnily at the same time there was a completely parallel shift with hip-hop, right? Surely there is plenty of footage out there of MC Hammer and Heavy D complaining about NWA or Public Enemy or somesuch. I spent a lot of last year watching documentaries -- long story -- many of them from the early 90s, and what started to strike me after a while was that across the first half of the decade the entire national culture seemed to be going through a process of de-cheesification, a big sudden shift from "entertainment" entertainment toward entertainment with pretensions toward something more, even if it was just "lifestyle" stuff. (There's an age-demographic shift that went with this, I think, but that's another post.) Biggest indicator of this shift, weirdly = conceptions of typical "hot girl."

Is the cheesification back yet?

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 6 January 2008 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

also annoying were the 'tr00 metal' proponents bitching that nu-metal was killing the metal genre (even though in reality, the fact that metal was underground was self-chosen and usually celebrated by the most devout fans of the genre)...and probably introduced people into more extreme metal acts, also paving the way for more extreme music to get played on rock radio.

For the record, I HATED nu-metal, but the phrase "metal and nu-metal" cannot co-exist was ludicrous, especially since it was apparent that nu-metal would likely fade from the mainstream as any passing fad....

― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Sunday, 6 January 2008 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

Hair metal lives! It's just called "country" now.

― xhuxk, Sunday, 6 January 2008 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

No wonder I hear so many saying they hate country then!

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 6 January 2008 16:47 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1491200_desktop.gif

― I know, right?, Sunday, 6 January 2008 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

Whoops, wrong thread.

― I know, right?, Sunday, 6 January 2008 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

I thought you were saying the strokes were to blame for the death of hair metal.

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 6 January 2008 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

Anyway, I've heard way more stupid grunge fans gloating about how grunge supposedly killed hair-metal over the years than stupid hair-metal fans whining (much less "whinging," which I guess is only possible if they're British) about it. And, as I've said a thousand times before (and may even say above -- I didn't check), they're both wrong, because, duh, GRUNGE DIDN'T KILL HAIR-METAL. In 1990, the year before Nirvana charted, the biggest new loud-guitar bands were Faith No More, King's X, Jane's Addiction, Living Colour, people like that -- in other words, hair-metal was already on the way out (chartwise, anyway) by the time grunge finally starting selling. Add in the fact that Soundgarden didn't sound all that different from Whitesnake and Kingdom Come in the first place (they sure sounded more like Whitesnake or Kingdom Come than Poison or Bon Jovi did, anyway), and the fact that Warrant and Faster Pussycat made better albums in the '90s than most grunge bands did, and the fact that the best grunge records came out in mid '80s when hair-metal was still selling, and the fact that Stone Temple Pilots and Candlebox and Collective Soul had at much hair-metal as grunge in their sound...and I really can't believe people are still arguing about this ridiculous question, in 2008.

― xhuxk, Sunday, 6 January 2008 17:13 (eighteen years ago)

Guys are on there saying how punk they were, or how much they sounded like 60's garage rock instead of the hand-on-my-cock-and-girls-on-my-lap crap they were actually playing

As if they can't be both. (Poison borrowed riffs from the Sex Pistols; Ratt's "Round and Round" and Cinderella's "Gypsy Road" were the equal of anything on Nuggets. But maybe, two decades down the line, people have finally figured that out by now.)

― xhuxk, Sunday, 6 January 2008 17:17 (eighteen years ago)

my favorite example of this complaint is Mike Reno of Loverboy. Cuz you know Loverboy was HUGE when Stone Temple Pilots showed up.

― da croupier, Sunday, 6 January 2008 17:21 (eighteen years ago)

Maybe the reason some of the older fans of the bands stopped buying their albums was because the bands jumped bandwagons and tried to go grunge. So you certainly cant have any sympathy for those who did that.

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 6 January 2008 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

You can bet there was more than Bon Jovi claiming they influenced grunge.

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 6 January 2008 18:41 (eighteen years ago)

I said at the time all these bands would make a decent comeback in the nostagia circuit in about 20 years time. Motley Crue tour must've sold quite well.

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 6 January 2008 18:43 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/stadium/4389/miss.htm

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 6 January 2008 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

this is the part of the thread where we post old pictures of layne staley, right?

http://www.metalsludge.tv/main/modules/subjects/pages/ExposedLayne.jpg

― scott seward, Sunday, 6 January 2008 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.metalsludge.tv/main/modules/subjects/pages/ExposedLayne3.jpg

― scott seward, Sunday, 6 January 2008 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.metalsludge.tv/main/modules/subjects/pages/ExposedAIC2.gif

― scott seward, Sunday, 6 January 2008 18:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.metalsludge.tv/main/modules/subjects/pages/ExposedAIC.jpg

― scott seward, Sunday, 6 January 2008 18:56 (eighteen years ago)