Drexciya vs. Plastikman

From Detroit you go SOUTH to get to the Canadian border. Is that weird? Talk of 'clash of civilizations', as well as the Earth v. Atlantis thing. Aqua boogie!

Mr. I Hate Techno keeps amazing me. ;) Still bad blood after all these years? That would be pathetic. The whole thing was a bit overblown as Mad Mike once explained, something to do with one of Drexciya not allowed to enter a club or something because of skin colour. Why Hawtin was scapegoated still remains a mystery. Hawtin has been very protective of Detroit techno, always pays respect to those who earn it. The way I see it you have your minor players like that paranoid fuckwit Eddie Fowlkes who are always obssesing over Hawtin. Kenny Dixon different story (great producer but his comments about techno being black music were totally out of order). In the end Hawtin it seems is respected by yr Saunderson's, Craig's and May's, they are able to look past petty details.

This is what I've picked up through the years but no doubt Michael has far more details re. the Detroit feuds.

I didn't know of any bad blood, but I'm sure it's just part of The Plan - if Mad Mike is indeed the one and only Drexciya member.

Mmm, I thought Drexciya were two? De:Bug last year got the main dude to confess that the other one is Dopplereffekt. But you never know if it's true (although soundwise it does make sense).

Plastikman's out-put is more varied. It took me a couple of listens before my head caught up with the 'Consumed' LP, which then opened me up to more 'micromusic': click house, Pole, Basic Channel, whatever you call it. But I don't for a minute think he's made of plastik.
Drexciya occupy a smaller, more specific area of the dance spectrum, but to my mind, they own it (you could almost say they hold that territory with utter conviction.) ;-)

RE: Mad Mike = Drexciya. That's only what someone told me (he used to Dj at LOST in the mid-90s with Mills etc). I'm sure Mike revels in all Drexciya related disinformation.

err...but Doppplereffeckt is made up of 2 white people - 1 male and 1 female..or am i wrong? and I'm pretty sure they have nothing to do with U.R.

Mmm, the picture on the Gesamtkunstwerk cd is a bit shady in that sense, I always thought the guy was black. But those two *may* be fakes to give it that nice German touch, yeah?. I quote from AMG:

"Dopplereffekt are yet another robotic electro act from Detroit to file alongside Drexciya, Ectomorph, and Flexitone. As is par for the course in the Motor City electro scene, identities are unknown, but the emphasis on precise drum programming and effects sounds barely a year or two removed from the classic electric-funk days of 1982."

Anyway the Drexciya guy in one of his rare talkative moods clearly said it, that was also the reason I finnaly checked on Dopplereffekt. Again Michael should be albe to clear this up. He always posts on dance-topics, so lets see. :)

As for the musical side of the topic: I like them both equal really. Actually they're probably my two favourite Detroit artists.

I have never knowingly heard Drexciya. Place to start wd be?

a. who is drexciya:

If Drexciya wanted you to know who they were, they would tell you. I do know who they are, and I respect their wishes to remain anonymous. As we say in Detroit: Those know don't tell, and those who tell don't know.

And no, Mike Banks is _NOT_ Drexciya.

As for Drexciya SoD's, Search "The Quest" and "Neptunes Layer" Also, on various 12"s on the Submerge based SID(Sold in Detroit) label, good luck getting ahold of those.

Also, One half of Drexciya just released a new album on Warp under the name "Other Peoples Place."

B. Why do folks hate Hawtin?

It goes back to the old days in Detroit(re late 80's) Techno was essentially a black scene, with the exeception of KGB, then only white 1st wave Detroit Techno outfit.

Techno does not start in 1985 with Metroplex records, or 1981 with Sharivari, it goes back into the club scene of the late 1970's. All the main players in early Detroit techno cut their teeth playing in clubs and house parties, and they all knew each other from back in the day. That means that people like Derrick May, Juan Atkins, Shake, Saunderson, Blake Baxter...are in their late 20's when everything starts.

In 1990 Hawtin releases the first +8 record, Elements Of Tone. In the run off groove it reads "100% Pure Detroit Techno." First of all it is not a Detroit Techno record, it was heavily influenced by the early Sheffeild Bleep sound. Second, at the time Hawtin puts this record he is about 18 or 19, there is a huge generation gap. On top of that, he is white, upper middle-class(pops Hawtin is an Electrical Engineer for Ford Motor Company), and he has claimed a decade old scene that he has paid no dues in.

The other thing that people do not realize is exactly how bad his early discography really was. You look at things like Technarchy, or his track as Zenon on the first Zoo-Rave Comp, to things like his Dominator remixes as Richie Rich, he put out a lot of junk tracks that bared no relation to the true Detroit sound. It is flat out Rave music, and in Detroit that is a seriously dirty word.

Beyond that, in 1992 +8 went on their first international tour of Europe, and they took everybody along except for Kenny Larkin, who was the only black person in the +8 camp. That did not sit well at all with the black Techno community in Detroit whatsoever.

The bottom line is that +8/Minus has always been about promoting itself and catering to whatever the white kids in the suburbs want this season. They have not been about creating an underground afro- futurist electronic sound. They have always been the label that has been available to the uninformed. The tensions that were going on in Detroit in the 90's are pretty much gone, as far as Minus is concerned.

People in the city know to keep away from Hawtin because he makes a lot of promises that he does not keep, and that he will turn his back on you in a heartbeat. That culture around that label is a very holier-than-thou, look-at-us-we-are-so-cool type vibe. In my dealings withh them I always felt that I was being looked down upon, and I know that I am not the only one in this city who feels that way. I think the way they carry themselves has a lot to do with the hostility they generated in the 90's. +8/Minus is not Detroit, I mean that as much culturally as I do geographically. They do not have the down-home grit and warmth the characterizes Detroit, it just is not in them.

I have probably said too much already...

As for Hawtin SoD's, Search Sheet One, Musik, Sickness and Artifakts BC as Plastikman, Dimensional Intrusions as Fuse, Loop/LFO Vs. Fuse. Destroy:all Cybersonik material, Consumed, Concept series, The Namlook colaborations.

I am ambivalant about either one, I am more of a Kenny Larkin, Derrick May, Carl Craig, and Neil Oliverra man myself.

Tracer, good point to start with Drexciya = always The Quest compilation. Don't know how hard it is to find these days. Otherwise check 'Neptune's Liar' or The Other People Place albums both easy to get since they are release on Tresor and Warp.

Thanks Michael, nice to get an inside view. As always I can't agree with you on some points since Cybersonik is holy music in both Amsterdam and Rotterdam (probably one of the few artists to have done so), Consumed of course is the best Plastikman album, IMHO. (and let's face it for the longest time the biggest rave-favourites were produced by Underground Resistance).

Now for the Drexciya/Dopplereffekt connection here's the original quote from De:Bug 28 (in German, jawol!)

--------

De:Bug: Wer ist denn eigentlich dein Partner?

Drexciya: Du weisst, dass ich das nicht gerne sage, aber gut, es ist Dopplereffekt. Als wir vor einer Weile Drexciya wieder mal auf Eis gelegt haben, um Research zu machen, hat er sich entschlossen, sein eigenes Projekt zu machen, und daran ist auch nichts falsch. Aber wir halten die beiden Dinge sehr stark getrennt. Vielleicht arbeite ich eines Tages auch solo, aber dafür bin ich jetzt noch nicht bereit. Drexciya kann nur mit uns beiden entstehen, denn alleine ergibt das einfach einen anderen Klang

------

Basically says when Drexciya laid low for awhile the Other One did a solo-project as Dopplereffekt. Also reading it now he already seems to talk about doing The Other People Place.

I don't get it. Why would a bunch of white kids from Windsor be interested in making an "underground afro-futurist electronic sound"? Then people would be talking even worse shit about them.

The bottom line is that +8/Minus has always been about promoting itself and catering to whatever the white kids in the suburbs want this season. They have not been about creating an underground afro- futurist electronic sound.

I've just discovered my new way of dismissing all the artists and bands I dislike. Witness:

Person: The Beatles were the best band ever.

Me: No, they suck.

Person: Give me one good reason why they suck.

Me: Because, duh, they have not been about creating an underground afro- futurist electronic sound.

Heheheh...

btw. anyone hear that Japanese Telecom album 'Virtual Geisha'? Supposed to be Drexciya related.

Tim - what about "Tomorrow Never Knows"? That's more on an Outcaste tip, tho.

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that they were all about catering to what the white kids wanted that season.

Damn white kids! KILL 'EM ALL! (Being thirty, I nobly exempt myself from this group.)

WATH THE F*** HIS THIS... WHY DO YOU WANNA KNOW ...YOU WANNA KILL THE MAGIC?? JUST LISTEN AND LET GO YOUR IMAGINATION.ENTER THE WORLD THAT THEY PROPOSE YOU WITHOUT QUESTION... WHO IS DREXCIYA?...WHO KNOWS...

WHY DO YOU WANNA KNOW

for my secret plan mr wilson!

who is Drexciya? what is the secret of the caramilk bar? to be or not to be? what is the secret plan of wilson? on s'en calisssse....

In response to the person who said Dopplereffekt were 2 white people (1 man, 1 woman) - the models on the cover of the Gigolo lp are the same models used on orginal Dataphysix 12"s (and the male model is black). I have always assumed that they were models, and Dopplereffekt is one person.

I have also been told that the female voice on 'Porno Actress' is Nicola from Adult., though honestly you never get a straight answer from any of them. Makes sense though, as even though there is a female on the covers and labels of Dplrefkt records, there is no strong female presence (not saying a girl can't program dope beats).

The only thing I'm fairly sure of is:

Dopplereffekt is Japanese Telecom (that is a given)

Drexciya is a core of 2 people

1/2 of Drexciya is Transllusion

1/2 of Dreciya has gone by the name of Heinrich Mueller (Der Zyklus)

Proof to me is simply the amount of times the names have been linked and the similarities in music, nothing more.

-d