Three quick Joy Division related questions

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1) Is the JD version of 'In A Lonely Place' available anywhere? A couple of years ago I found on a site a one and half minute MP3 of this, and it certainly wasn't a hoax or a cover. Why am I asking this when I could use Napster/Morpheus/Audiogalaxy (etc), you may ask. It's because you'd be amazed at how many people don't seem to be able to tell the difference between JD and New Order.
2) Is Ceremony available anywhere apart from 'Still'? The same download problem applies here.
3) Is the 'Warsaw' LP worth buying?

― DG, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

123) Buy the box set.

― Andy, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What Andy said.

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

dg, get thee to a nunnery (or record store) and buy that bastard box set, or up the mizzenmast you go!

― jess, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The box set will be less expensive for you anyhow, DG, since you're in England. It's import-only in the US :(

― Ally, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ah, but the boxset is now available from Rhino for you US folk. Still somewhat pricey (US$59 list?), but no longer an import, at least.

Dan Gibson

― Dan Gibson, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Polite question - are Joy Division one of those holy ILM bands that nobody dare say a word against (see also: The Pixies, My Bloody Valentine)?

― Andrew L, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Polite question - are Joy Division one of those holy ILM bands that nobody dare say a word against I am not 100% sure Andrew but I bloody hope so. In terms of holiness I would place them high above the Pixies which are high above MBV.

― alex in mainhattan, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the Joy Division CoD/SaD thread was the only one we've ever had where no one said anything bad about the band in question.

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

most of us just have a "thing" for postpunk. joy division just crosses all sorts of boundaries so me and dg and ally can all like it. like fuzzy kitties. and iced cream.

― jess, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And they even appeal to us who were pseudo-goth back in the day. Doesn't the Warsaw LP have them at their punkiest? Thats my favortie stuff.

― bnw, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Always found them a sludge of grumbly, arrested 4th-form inconsequentia myself. Teeny-bop for wilfully and self-consciously alienated adolescent boys. All that overblown Teutonic imagery (like Throbbing Gristle and half the Mute label in those days), all that coercive greyness, all that badly-produced chundering so mystifyingly revered by (mainly) boys. Yuk! Ian Curtis's rather squald political leanings don't help me incline towards them either.

― Sweetie, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Teeny-bop for wilfully and self-consciously alienated adolescent boys, exactly. I mean, that's why I like them.

― Otis Wheeler, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

all that coercive greyness

Not when reinterpreted by Grace Jones. Then it's just coercive. You WILL dance!

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i talk shit about the pixies any chance i get.

― ethan, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

to each his own. it just so happens in this case that you've both been smoking crack with the dad from alf outta a soda can.

― jess, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Reading Deborah Curtis's memoir was very disillusioning for me as a typical depressed, over-sensitive adolescent who idolized Ian and Richey Manic and all the other usual suspects. Still like Richey just as much, but have mixed feelings about Joy Division now. Some of their lyrics seem a little forced to me, though still light-years ahead of the likes of Patti Smith and all the other self-conscious rock 'poets'. I've become more interested in their musical side - Unknown Pleasures is brilliant post-punk, and Closer is just gorgeous, especially The Eternal.

― Justyn Dillingham, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

DG - as everyone sez get the box-set. If you have any pennies left get the Warsaw album as well. There are only 3 or 4 trax from it on the box-set, and the rest are worth having. There's a bizzarre version of Transmission with synth which reputedly was added by the producer without the band's consent. I think it sounds quite good! Ditto for a version of "No Love Lost" which is longer and spacier than the Ideal for Living version. The only duds are the VERY early tracks tacked on the end (Inside The Line, Gutz etc) and even then they're not totally awful.

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ethan are you being positive or negative. Anyway, the Pixies are overrated crap, so there.

― Bill, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If you're going to talk shit about the Pixies, you must make sure that the shit is directed at the correct time period. Most of the stuff they did up through _Doolittle_ was really good, but the general fan favorite _Tromp Le Monde_ is really, really pathetic. The only songs on it that I can even bear to listen to are "Planet Of Sound" and "Alec Eiffel". That "U-Mass" song can suck deze nutz.

― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Not to add to the chorus saying "just buy the boxed set," but just buy the boxed set--it's not all great, but it's all at least worth hearing, and the great stuff is overwhelming.

The Warsaw record is sharp and illuminating--it doesn't have the sort of gravitas of the JD stuff, but sometimes it's what I want to hear.

― Douglas Wolk, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dan, I have one thing to say to you: Grrrr.

― Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

There's another Richey fan here????

Anyhow, I don't like the Pixies OR MBV. Let the vegetable throwing begin.

― Ally, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I used to love and even worship the Pxies and MBV at their time. But they were like sparkling wine of the kind that does not age well. Whereas JD is like a bottle of Bordeaux. The older the darker, the better.

― alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thanks for your help you lot, but I really don't want to buy the box set cos I already have UP, Closer, Still and Substance, and the BBC sessions, so spending £30 for two songs is a bit wasteful, I think. I might well get the Warsaw thingy though.
BUT! To follow you off on that tangent - with regards to what someone said above, in my experience more gurls like JD than boys. So there. And as for the Curtis biography, it was written by his cuckolded widow, so I think a lot of it could arguably be taken with a pinch of salt.

― DG, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

There's over 20 tracks which aren't on anything else, although about 15 of these are live tracks. There's also the some of Martin Rushent demos, and 3 or 4 Piccadilly radio tracks.

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

DG! There are loads of things on the box set that aren't on the CDs, I mean I have two JD best-ofs plus the regular albums but you don't see me going all, "Ooh, I'm not buying that box set, because I have those things!" now do you. NOW DO YOU?

― Ally, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, no. But...but...I dunno. Perhaps I'll get the box set then, despite the terrible photo on the front. If I were him I wouldn't want to be remembered like that.

― DG, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, he kind of forcibly took himself out of the running for the "having a say in things" sweepstakes, eh? I mean, if I was him I wouldn't want my ex-bandmates running around barking that horrible football winning it for Engerland song either but they still do that.

― Ally, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

He should haunt them then. He should be a poultrygeist.

― DG, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Woooooo....woooooo....*rattles chains*...your new single is crap, what's the matter with you all...wooooooo". That's scary shit, that.

― Ally, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Now Ally, you know very well you're imitating Richey there and not Ian. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Richey would just cry.

― Ally, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Andrew: What do you think of them?

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What is 4th form?

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Why don't you sell the album versions and use the store credit you get to fund the box set?

― JM, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Adopting DJ Martian 'voice of authority' persona :

The not-available-elsewhere trax on "Heart and Soul" are :

Insight/Glass/Transmission/Ice Age : Martin Rushent Demos

Dead Souls/Something Must Break/Walked in Line : Martin Hannet demos

Ceremony/In a Lonely Place

These Days/Candidate/The Only Mistake/Chance (Atmosphere) : Piccadilly Radio session

As You Said : from the Factory Flexi (Weren't Incubation and Komakino on "Substance"?)

Also Disc 4 has 19 live tracks from 4 gigs.

That makes a total of 31

Also were Autosuggestion and From Safety to Where? on Substance? They were originally released on Earcom 2 and if not on Substance should be added to the total above.

The only stuff NOT on Heart and Soul is the Warsaw demos (apart from The Drawback/Interzone and Shadowplay which ARE), the live disc of Still, 5 or 6 tracks from the BBC sessions and the version of "LWTUA" on the b-side of the LWTUA 12-inch, which is not available anywhere else. It's the best version too!

― Dr. C, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

At one point, New Order were going to do a Heart and Soul style box. Anyone know what happened?

― Dr. C, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dr. C: couple of other things which I think the boxed set doesn't have... (i) the Les Bains Douches recordings and (ii) the song ("At A Leter Date"?) from the 'Short Circuit: Live at the Electric Circus" 10".

Apologies for dull info-posting.

― Tim, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i'm going over to my friends house today to borrow some cd's.

what can i say about joy division to him that will make me look smart that i can't get off of allmusic.com?

i'll attribute it to you guys, i swear.

― Todd Burns, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, I wasn't counting Les Bains Douches even though it's utterly essential to own. Likewise, I also left out the Live at Preston album.

But yep, I forgot the live version of 'At a Later Date' (the 'You all forgot Rudolf Hess' version).

― Dr. C, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My big brother has a copy of the Electric Circus LP, and I remember finding the words "Warsaw on the night" which began the Joy Div write- up mysterious and fascinating (I was little and had no idea about JD's history). I thought that there must have been something about the music which made everything seem like Warsaw. And try as I might, I just couldn't hear it.

― Tim, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I've got the box set now, it arrived this morning and I'll go through it later.

― DG, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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