Toughest question ever: Beefheart Vs. Sun Ra

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Well, how bout it, ILM? Two of the most enigmatic, hopelessly eccentric, brilliant artists of all time, pitted against each other once and for all!

Obviously both classic, that's a no brainer, but who do you prefer? This could be the new Beatles vs. Elvis. What does your choice say about you?

It's tough (duh) but I'm more of a Beefheart guy. Sun Ra is more consistent, and there are few things I wouldn't rather listen to that the Singles double disc, but aesthetically, Beefheart takes the prize.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 11 March 2004 07:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Talking about importance, the choice is hard to make. I'm inclined to think (wishfully?) Beefheart's blues- and garageramble did more for pop and rock (both being based on blueschords for quite a bit) than Ra's space jazz (that's the field where I place this guy). Aesthetically is definitely Beefheart for me. His songs, his voice, his raw edged rock, it's all so much closer to my heart than (again) jazz and Ra-jazz.

― Roger in Mokum (Roger T), Thursday, 11 March 2004 08:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Sun Ra. My knowledge of either artist is limited, but the eccentricity of Capt. Beefheart sounds more like a gimmick to me, whereas Sun Ra seems to have been a genuine eccentric. Also, I prefer good jazz over rock anyday.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 March 2004 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

They are both brilliant and they are both 100% "genuine eccentrics" - they were also both bullshitters and leg-pullers supreme.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 11 March 2004 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Sun Ra's great but there's no competeition for me - but then I'm under no illusions that I'm anything other than essentially a "rock" lover who dabbles in a bit avante garde jazz.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 11 March 2004 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Beefheart. Better tunes.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 11 March 2004 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

are beefheart and ra 'enigmatic' and 'eccentric' now? I wouldn't say so, with all the biog stuff/a zillion articles and most of the recs being fairly available.

The main point of comparison is that both were bullies who locked musicians together and got 'em to play/arrange their 'weird' stuff, and that both did fairly accessible stuff then avant-garde type stuff too (they'd zig-zag between those fields): I like 'em both and won't choose.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 11 March 2004 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn - this is a tough one. Sun Ra was much more prolific and he maintained a higher level of quality over a much longer period than Beefheart. In terms of historical importance, it's hard to make the call between Ra's innovations in big band free jazz and Beefheart's brand of fractured blues-rock. Both men were strong-willed and capable bandleaders, though Ra was able to hold together a very high calibre of players for a longer period. Both men were creative and original lyricists. I think I'm going to have to give the edge to Ra.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 11 March 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Beefheart was just an eccentric. Sun Ra was a visionary. Sure his music may have not had the same impact on what-was-to-come as Beefy's, but the way his connection to the universe beyond the material Now intertwined with his musical concepts is pretty unparalelled.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 11 March 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Sun Ra, without a second thought.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 11 March 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Sometimes Beefheart can tend to sound like a bunch of guys just randomly and aimlessly playing instruments, but with really good lyrics on top. Sun Ra can get a little too repetitive, and I haven't listened to him in a long time... but I still think he comes out victorious.

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 11 March 2004 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Sun Ra, easy.

― Jeff Sumner (Jeff Sumner), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I only own/need one Beefheart album (Doc At The Radar Station) but I only own/need two Ra albums (the twin volumes of The Solar-Myth Approach), so Ra wins in a close race to the bottom.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Now here's an even tougher question: TS: Sun Ra vs. Thelonious Monk

(I think Monk takes it, but it's a nail-biter.)

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

ts: stockhausen v lee perry

(now this officially reads like the editorial chatroom of the wire)

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Stockhausen v Perry is making my mind spin, holy shit. Very good.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 11 March 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

see i think one issue of the wire had an insert with four "trading cards" in it. beefheart, sun ra, lee perry and stockhausen. (actually maybe it was king tubby?? no probably it was perry). my friends and i have discussed for a long time whether it'd be possible to divide up all post-70s music into four boxes, one for each of those trading cards. we were also wondering if they'd be of equal size, and if not, how the rankings would run.

my answers were YES and NO, the rankings ran: perry > beefheart > sun ra > stockhausen.

for the record, i like sun ra better than beefheart.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 11 March 2004 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw Sun Ra perform in Central Park (opening for Sonic Youth) in the summer of `91 or so,....and funky space costumes aside, it was quite possibly the most boring few hours I've ever spent in my life (and that includes waiting around at the Department of Motor Vehicles). Sonic Youth were a mind-numbing snore as well.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 11 March 2004 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Sonic Youth are very...patient...in concert.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 11 March 2004 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Even quasi-rockists like me (fan of both, Sun Ra to the lesser extent) have to realize that there's really no comparison between rockers and jazzers. Thinking in terms of comparative size of bodies-of-work, hours of effort applied to being trained musically, years of dues-paying, potential for monetary rewards - there's no question that the jazz musician's path is the more difficult, and therefore the more remarkable achievement. Of course, these two certainly did themselves no favours and had more difficult roads to follow than the average rocker/jazzman by virtue of their being such spectacular, unrepentant nutcases. (And I mean that with the utmost affection, of course!) Anyways, I gotta take Beefheart, but only because his body of work is more easily grasped: I own a roughly equal amount of music by both, which means 75% of the Beefheart back catalogue versus what, 15% of Sun Ra's?

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Thursday, 11 March 2004 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

For anyone with a tendency to obsessiveness, the concept of becoming or wanting to become a "completist" fan of either Sun Ra or Lee Perry must surely represent the entrance to the asylum!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 12 March 2004 09:07 (twenty-two years ago)

was just listening to CD5 of 'grow fins' where's playing a mellotron (i think that's what it was), and someone shouted sun ra: 'shut up' *switches over to piano* 'Is that liberace (sp?)?'

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 12 March 2004 09:11 (twenty-two years ago)

five years pass...

Beefheart. Better tunes.

This is just mind-boggling. Sun Ra produced a whole catalog of catchy tunes. I don't hear anything equivalent in Beefheart. I have to wonder how much Sun Ra Alex "I saw Sun Ra perform in Central Park (opening for Sonic Youth) in the summer of `91 or so" in NYC has heard or had heard when he made that comment.

― _Rudipherous_, Monday, 18 January 2010 02:33 (sixteen years ago)

right?

― The Book of Eli Porter (ojo), Monday, 18 January 2010 02:38 (sixteen years ago)

The truth about the people of the planet earth is a BAD truth.

― _Rudipherous_, Monday, 18 January 2010 03:19 (sixteen years ago)

Judging by talent alone I would think it would be easy to choose Sun Ra over Beefheart?? But maybe I'm just saying that because he's a jazz musician... nahh he's definitely more talented

― CaptainLorax, Monday, 18 January 2010 03:38 (sixteen years ago)

I'd definitely take Sun Ra. Dude's a trip.

― dynamicinterface, Monday, 18 January 2010 05:02 (sixteen years ago)

Sun Ra. Because I am headache prone.

― Fuck Indiana. Seriously. (u s steel), Monday, 18 January 2010 11:41 (sixteen years ago)

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