who the hell likes both indie AND mainstream rap nowadays?

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It's like you either have to be a super-scientifical wheat-grass beatnik free-jazz poetry slam boho who gags at the mere mention of crunk or booty videos, or you're a superthug who lives to mock the fifteen people who still buy Anticon albums and retroactively claims Blueprint is crap because Kanye turned out to be all "conscious". Am I the only one who's doubly fucked, catching guilt from the De Palma's-Scarface casualties for liking Aceyalone and getting limp-noodle merked by backpackers for liking David Banner? Will there be tears before bedtime?

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

www.nme.com

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:15 (twenty-two years ago)

that makes me feel better, as soon as I discover a definition for "better" that means "like smashing a beer bottle over my kneecap and stabbing myself in the stomach with it"

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i have seemingly become unstuck in time and have ended up back in ~~1992~~ ~~1997~~ ~~2000~~ 2002.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

where is mr. peabody?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

(this is known as "hillbilly seppuku")

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

hey I love BOTH Outkast and Atmosphere, I play both sides of the field!

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

billo pilgrimton

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

nate...take a deep breath....also, what does this have to do with the Strokes?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

me too Nate, except that no one listens to me and therefore no one cares, so I'm allowed to go on my merry way all unparanoid and stuff.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

was about to say, Nate, are you a previous Nate that just escaped a long lost period of time or something?

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

chance of this discussion going anywhere < chance of Nas and Slug collab

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought this was what Kanye West was supposed to take care of.

― Mitchell (Mitchell), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.travismorrison.com/

― LITTLE LAMB [Jon Williams] (ex machina), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean he says he has a Benz AND a backpack.

― Mitchell (Mitchell), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I would probably like some indie rap if I heard it, but I get all my rap info from 106 & Park so that's all I know.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I was actually kind of hoping this would be a "let us discuss, and perhaps come to terms with, a division in hip-hop that appears to be the most contentious issue since the East Coast/West Coast beef, and see if we can come to an understanding" thread and less of a "That Wacky Nate" thread, but whoops.

I don't hear nobody complaining about Kanye's Benz.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

to be honest nate, its only really you that brings this up anymore, its like a stick that is used to beat you with, but you are the owner of the stick and you rent it out to people

really, i'm not so sure why you are so focussed on this

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

We got a little bit of everything...we got country AND western!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.rjyan.com/

― LITTLE LAMB [Jon Williams] (ex machina), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

chance of this discussion going anywhere < chance of Nas and Slug collab

more seriously, I think the answer to your question is lots and lots of people (including lots of MAINSTREAM RAPPERS), just this issue seems to get ridiculously overblown on ILM...I mean like the Radio K guys that do the Beatbox (for a MN-centric example) don't seem to shy away from more mainstream stuff alongside their usual diet of indie stuff....I guess I was just joking because the whole idea of having to pick sides like a pick-up basketball game and define yourself as undie or anti-undie is pretty silly....just like what you like.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, anyway, Kayne West is the new Will Smith or something, anyway, the wars (which, basically, never really existed) are over.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I was thinking about checking out that Diverse album after I saw that the Chicago jazz crew helped produce it, even though what I remember of him on than Urban Renewal comp was 'meh' as can be.

(but really, I thought the rap wars had settled down into pleasant tolerance by now)

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

BOTH are CRAP

― sexyDancer, Friday, 12 March 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post etc.)

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway i dont like rap anymore

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate, I think your perspective here is really skewed, probably by ILM more than anything else. the boundaries have eroded considerably, even from what they were 2 or 3 years ago. it should go without saying that yes, there will always be uptight genre gatekeepers, but Trife isn't exactly an accurate representative.

― Al (sitcom), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I just realized that I'm not even sure if I've HEARD indie rap before. Except maybe 2 seconds of Company Flow.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

unless crunk is indie. it's on tvt!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Jon OTM for trying to kill this thread with a shot of Cex being "trimmed".

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

unless crunk is indie. it's on tvt!

no way that makes it industrial!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm...give head like a ho, black as your soul, I'd rather die than give you control...sounds crunk to me.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i) this morning i was wondering if we could come to terms with or better understand undie rap by treating it as an american take on british hiphop.

ii) anticon has certain flaws

iii) i'll agree with everyone else that you've blown it out of proportion, nate

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.loadrecords.com/bands/hawd.html

― LITTLE LAMB [Jon Williams] (ex machina), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

KMFDM is crunk!

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, there's other message boards and other blogs and other media outlets; don't assume my only experience with music fans is this very board. ILM isn't the only place where people went "Jay-Z likes Kweli? EW ICK BLECH".

I'm guessing some of the animosity in this has to do with some indie groups' decade-old continued insistence on pop-rap's awfulness (dating way back; post-traumatic Hammer syndrome or something) and insistence on "skillz" over hooks, but that attitude doesn't seem as pervasive these days as it was in '97 or so (and has seemed to turn to infighting over who's more raw/less nerdy or whatever). The anti-backpacker attitude, meanwhile, has exploded like fifteen-fold even as indie rap is still mostly a strictly critical/cult phenom and a commercial near-non-entity (with a few Jux and Rawkus albums nudging the 100,000 mark a couple years after release, if that). It reminds me of a bunch of Judas Priest fans bitching about Black Flag. I just wanna yell "THEY BOTH PLAY SABBATH-DAMAGED GUITAR RIFFS AND WHOMP ASS IN A SOMEWHAT HOMOEROTIC MANNER, DAMN IT".

I'm guessing that nobody in the "blowing it out of proportion" crowd is all that heavily into indie rap.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

the terrowrists have already won

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha KMFDM/Lil' John mashup NOW!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm guessing that nobody in the "blowing it out of proportion" crowd is all that heavily into indie rap

that's kinda right for me...I was pretty into it around the Rawkus heyday...around the time Funchrusher Plus came out...Black Star...those first few Soundbombing...NY Reality Check (I think that what it's called had Braggin' Writes by J-Live)...early Atmosphere....

Lately, I guess my interest has waned somewhat. I still make it a point to listen to the local college raps show most Saturdays, but it's infrequent that stuff motivates me to buy it. I've been meaning to pick up the Mr. Len and Sage Francis stuff to play a little catchup...last thing I probably bought was the J-Live full lenght. I liked it mostly, but satisfied seem to stand head and shoulders above the rest.

Of course, I fully realize that this lack of interest in mostly me not hearing stuff I should be rather than a decline in quality of the genre.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't like most of the anticon-type undie rap, but I like most Def Jux albums I've heard, Deltron/HBMS/Dr.Octagon, the Coup, etc. about as well as I like Jay-Z or Wu Tang.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Lately I've realized that I actually really do like a lot of Doseone's shit, requiring that I'm wasted baked at the time.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

anyone who wants to see that Nate isn't talking out of his ass should check the message boards on Okayplayer.com sometime, there is still schism even without bringing in the Twin Cities / Def Jux thing

but at this point it's less contentious than the yawning chasm of Nashville vs. alt.country, that shit's gettin' GANGSTA, I'm expecting someone to get shot any second now

probably Robbie Fulks

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Dudes I rhyme with stopped calling me "indie" and "backpacker" about this time last year. They're current favorite insults are "Mr. Rogers" and "Izod-wearing motherfucker".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe I am blowing it out of proportion. I dunno... maybe it seems so significant to me because it's just so damn stupid.

xp b2d: look, and despair

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha, holy crap -- it's like those '02 trife-Nate fights but with severe head trauma involved

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

fuckin' A, Nate, no WAY am I getting mired in that shit. I'd end up posting and then it's all over. it'd be fun to go on Okayplayer and start a thread called "cLOUDEAD is better than the Roots" and feel the heat / honour the fire / run.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

They're current favorite insults are "Mr. Rogers" and
"Izod-wearing motherfucker".

Seems like a lateral move on their part.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

damn I was hoping the "Typical Talib Qweli fan" thread on that site was going to be some Jeff Foxworthy type jokes, but it's just a picture of a chubby kid.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

like You Might Be a Backpacker If....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm guessing that nobody in the "blowing it out of proportion" crowd is all that heavily into indie rap.

If that's the case, Nate, what are you going to do about it?

Want me to start a "who the hell likes both Wax Trax! AND IDM electronic dance music nowadays?" thread to make my point to you?

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 12 March 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 29 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

(I should note that there is a chance the tenor of this thread as far as my whole approach is concerned may have been somewhat tainted by 64 ounces of Mountain Dew)

donut bitch OTM (PS: "Cutman" proves yr MBM/Bomb Squad thesis, you are not alone)

xp #1 (strongo): there's also the sense that the same kind of stuff that's considered "collegiate/boho" now was considered the backbone of hip-hop ten years ago (A Tribe Called Quest was hip-hop, but Black Star is "undie") and the people who listened to that Native Tongues/Heiro/Pharcyde style stuff back when it could still make it on the majors could be pissed at the whole marginalization of it, whether it's via label bullshit or just plain shifting tastes; also a lot of stuff gets pigeonholed unfairly due to indie label/collegiate fanbase status though some of it (Copywrite, f'rinstance) aren't that hugely out of place with hip-hop's current mode.
xp #2 (Broheems): I really wanna hear Chamillion now
xp #3 (strongo redux): You mean like the "sex offenders" strawman?
xp #4 (nickalicious): that's why the continued existence of the divide is so schoopid; also you need to say "shit" more

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha that's actually how I talk too Nate!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Nickalicious = shit-talker

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the new divide should be ear candy vs ear broccoli.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

but what about ear Cheese-on-a-Stick, or ear edamame?
Your aural foodist!

― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i am reminded of when trife started that "what happened to the underground" thread, re. when people like fat joe, ugk (underground kings, obv), mop, xzibit were the "underground". i think the "hardcore" underground (lame, i know, but i mean those 100k-out-the-trunk guys) has gone SO deep underground that it's below everyone's radar, maybe anyone outside their particular scene.

x-post: nate, i was mostly riffing on the "jess/trife aspersions" whatever the fuck that means, considering we both listen/listened to more underground hip-hop than you know that OTHER 90% of ilm who bought the college dropout with their shins record and thought they were the hottest thing since rosa parks.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

people who listened to that Native Tongues/Heiro/Pharcyde style stuff back when it could still make it on the majors could be pissed at the whole marginalization of it

or they could be listening to broken beat by now, or they could have grown up and be listening to adult contemporary, or they could have decided they didn't really like the fourth album and preferred jay-z.

which is really how the marginalization happened, anyway. looking at it like it's something external doesn't make sense.

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yo, yr ear broccoli son/ain't give a mufucker want they want/try to give 'em what they need/make their ears bleed/you think your shit sounds cool cuz you smoke too much weed/get yr face out the books/take a closer look/ear candy comin' down on you like Superfly Jimmy Snook/

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Strongo OTM bout the hardcore underground. I think a lot of that off-the-radar-ness might also have to do with lots of other dudes seeing how well others before them did doing shit like that and took that same approach, and now for every 1 Xzibit or Master P you've got like a bazillion, and with so many in the field it's harder for the individuals to stand out.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

there's also the sense that the same kind of stuff that's considered "collegiate/boho" now was considered the backbone of hip-hop ten years ago (A Tribe Called Quest was hip-hop, but Black Star is "undie")

Because ATCQ was making music that sounded like that in 1990, where as Blackstar was '98. It's regressive. No one thinks it's weird that E6 stuff is considered indie today, while the Beach Boys were huge in 1965.

― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

ear candy = MF Doom trax that sample '80s R&B and/or include off-key singing
ear broccoli = "Where Is the Love"

Anyways, I'm blowing shit outta proportion again and I'm not even stressed about jess/trife as much as I used to be. Enh. Fah. Hey, my favorite crunk comp is on the same label that gave us 3 Feet High and Rising, does that mean anything?

xp Colin: yeah, pretty much: "the people who listened to that Native Tongues/Heiro/Pharcyde style stuff back when it could still make it on the majors could be pissed at the whole marginalization of it, whether it's via label bullshit or just plain shifting tastes"

I can't really go at this much longer. My itinerary for the rest of the day:

4:15 -- get haircut (possibly a coming-to-terms-with-receding-hairline fuzzhead buzz)
5:00-5:15 -- work on last-minute Aceyalone feature for SW
5:15-12:00 -- stress
12:00-3:00 -- finish review

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Rap's corny now. Chris Martin is the only guy really holding it down.

― Sym (shmuel), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Cristal Martin

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think Nate is wrong. I have heard very little undie rap myself, so I have no idea if the haters are right, but the undie-bashing here does take on an extraordinarily vehement and ideological tone that goes far beyond "it just doesn't grab me", into making all sorts of loony assumptions about who likes it and why they enjoy it.

― Patrick (Patrick), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha minetinerary =

4:30ish - go home
4:30ish to 9:00 - record
9:00 - start drinking
10:00 - start dancing (regardless of whereabouts/music)
12:00 - begin drunk-dialing exes
1:00 - hit-up Popeye's
1:30 - bong-rips
2:00 - attempt to record wasted, ruin tracks I recorded earlier
4:00 - pass out in bean bag chair with shoes on

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

What are you doing at 4:20 nick?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost

4:15 -- get haircut (possibly a coming-to-terms-with-receding-hairline fuzzhead buzz)

ah...that's a big day in a man's life, nate.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

haha yeah, but at 26? FUCK. Anyways, I got a pseudo-fade with some bristle on the top and it looks a lot better now than that Jack Black bullshit I had going previous

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm 29...it was prob. about 25-26 for me too : (

not looking like Jack Black is a plus.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

ditto, mates = (

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

the sideburns more than compensate though. they're worth, like, TEN pompadours!

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

see -- ILM finally coming together!!

What male pattern baldness has joined, may no mainstream/underground rap beef tear asunder!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

But then there's me. Short hair and sideburns = ENEMY MINE. (Yet I love you all.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

we may look like your average undie rapper but we like everything!

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

except MBV

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

:-(

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I like some mainstream stuff here and there, but in general the production doesn't appeal to my tastes. I wouldn't like Jay Z any more if he stopped talking about hos clothes and bankrolls and I wouldn't hate Mr. Lif if that's all he talked about. Lyrics shmirics. That being said, most of the production on indie stuff nowadays doesn't do anything for me lately either. So I suppose I like as much mainstream as indie, but not very much of either. Rap schmap.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd love to hear an album these days that has as great production as "Efil4zaggin" or "Death Certificate" has

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 12 March 2004 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Wouldn't we all. But you can't make songs out of tons of samples anymore.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Saturday, 13 March 2004 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I enjoy both indie rap and mainstream rap. Nowadays and for always. I think I just like rap music in general.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 13 March 2004 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Can we all collectively skullfuck Gilbert O' Sullivan right here right now?

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 13 March 2004 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

alright, get a couple of spoons and some crisco

― Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, 13 March 2004 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Up his nose with a rubber hose (if you want to call it that).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 13 March 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, this is certainly a positive reinforcement in training myself to be desensitized to gory images.

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 13 March 2004 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

What Would Biz Do?

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 13 March 2004 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

DB, remember that it is shock treatment done solely and strictly out of love.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 13 March 2004 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Cool! can Mike Love be next??

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 13 March 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, but remember, this is going to hurt him more than it hurts me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 13 March 2004 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't like 'soft' and busy production, for the most part. That's what I hear with most indie-rap and 'conscious' tracks. Even with people who make busy tracks (El-P, Dan the Automator), it doesn't (usually) overwhelm the vocals.

That was a major problem with the last Aesop Rock album - other than "You're Famous" and "11:35" he got lost in the sub-El-P beats.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Saturday, 13 March 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

this country shit needs to be on a different thread

absolutely not, i'd say. part of the difficulty in assessing what exactly is going on with a scene split like the indie/mainstream hip hop one is that everyone who would bother thinking about it is so close that myopia takes over. hip hop (any music really) is something that people love deeply, intellectually, emotionally and to try to suss out why someone doesn't like something you do; or vice versa; AND take into account how that music is portrayed in the press, by itself, on tv, even how it's filed in the record store- winds up kind of dizzying.

so looking at a scene that is OBVIOUSLY NOT hip hop (nashville vs alt country) yet is enduring many of the same issues is pretty revealing, i think.

not to mention: both sundered genres have their origins in the same tools and circumstances (practically all hip hop was spit out of a sampler at some point, whether it became indie or mainstream later; practically all country was spit out of a martin guitar at some point, whether it became alt-c or nashville contemporary later). someone, i forget who, also mentioned that boy/girl collabs like sean paul & blu cantrell "breathe" just reinforced that the same feuding-relationship-songs crop up in hip hop and country.

― rgeary (rgeary), Saturday, 13 March 2004 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i didn't answer the thread question. i do.

― rgeary (rgeary), Saturday, 13 March 2004 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I listened to parts of G-Unit, Jedi Mind Tricks, Jaylib, Juvenile and Big Noyd yesterday. And Cryptic Slaughter and SLAYER!!!

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Saturday, 13 March 2004 16:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I like em both.

― djdee2005, Saturday, 13 March 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I like some conscious rap, but I dislike most undie. And I like lots of mainstream.

― Sym (shmuel), Saturday, 13 March 2004 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Record stores seem to like 'em both. Go into the Fifth Element store in Minneapolis (which is owned by Rhyme Sayers) or Fat Beats in NYNY and they seem to sell a lot of mainstream and undie stuff, side by side.

I like old mainstream stuff and new undie stuff. Chuck D and Dose One need to collaborate. Ice-T and Buck 65 could make a great fucking album. KRS-One and Sage Francis. Etc.

― subgenius (subgenius), Saturday, 13 March 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

subgenius, if the history of this internet music board is any indication, you're about to come in for a world of hurtin'.

don't worry though, play on playa, it's all good.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 13 March 2004 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate's gonna be the first ilxer with a Benz and a backpack.

― dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Sunday, 14 March 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Nate gets trife, puts him on threads with nickalicious

― Sym (shmuel), Sunday, 14 March 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually it'll be a De Tomaso and a duffel bag

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Sunday, 14 March 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Jess OTM about afro-futurist schtick taking over (and I like Dr Octagon and Antipop Consortium and Mike Ladd a bunch, but Jesus it got boring as hell when everyone and his Aunt Lilian decided this was the way to go--FUCK YOU DAN NAKAMURA and your and Prince Paul's DAMN concept albums to boot!) And Def Jux releases good stuff now and then (although not much lately it seems) but mostly their rapping annoy the fuck out of me. If someone did Native Tongues style stuff really well right now, it might be a welcome relief, but if it exists I haven't heard it (and if Dead Prez released a new record which sounded exactly like their last one minus the um vegan raps and including better um seduction tracks--or doing away with them altogether--I would probably really like it.) But underground/undie hip-hop is either on some tired tired (and I mean really EXHAUSTED far more BEAT than the slightly draggin'--outside of the South, anyway--mainstream) shit or it's so irritating that I could care less if it is tired or not I just want it to shut up (I'm looking at you Anticon.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

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