Just watch what you say

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A major label US artist e-mailed me privately today after I wrote that I "hated" one of his records in an ILM thread. And no, it was not Michael Jackson... (unfortunately)

― JoB, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You naughty boy! I wonder what Dave Q will get? ;)

― Omar, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You wanna be startin' somethin', mate?

― Michael Jackson, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What did said artist say, anyway? Share! And edit out names if you need to. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i know who it is!

― ethan, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

argh - the suspense!

― m jemmeson, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No threats or anything, just '"hate" is a strong word'. Because I didn't realise who the e-mail was from initially, I asked what it was about, and the artist replied 'nothing man. i'm [xxx] and it was interesting to read in the [yyy] vs. [xxx] thingy that you "hate" [xxx] and that I shouldn't be forgiven for my lyrics in [song]. the thing is those lyrics were written out of a love for hip hop and the power of words. so i found it interesting that they produced such hate in you. hate is a strong word.'

And that was it. Although I did write a slightly bitchy reply and it may not be the end of it. Good grief. Anyone else ever approached by an artist after shooting your mouth off on ILM?

― JoB, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

he has an e-z name to google (as do i)

― mark s, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Blimey, Noddy Holder reads ILM!!!

― Billy Dods, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i used to envy tom for getting an glowing email for the kid koala ihm thing until yesterday.

― ethan, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

by the power of Google/IL* Search i think i know now...

― m jemmeson, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yes, God bless ilm search. job: did he say how he came across your post? searching for his name on the internet? ;)

― fred solinger, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*everyone* does that, surely?

― m jemmeson, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hooray! I worked out who it is! I are Sherlock Holmes!

― DG, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well I have no clue but then again I am a moron.

― Ally, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Eureka. Search for Job and Hate and you find...

― nathalie, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Where are you searching? The google site? Or is there an ILM search page?

― Mark, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Anyone else ever approached by an artist after shooting your mouth off on ILM?

One time after I posted on a.m.a. about how I thought Brad Laner's stuff in Electric Company was great and miles better than the yawnsome crap that was Medicine, he himself posted to me saying, "Uh, thanks, I think..." To which I pointed out I was just being honest, and I figured he'd rather have that than brownnosing. He agreed and that was the end of it.

I still haven't figured out who the hell is 'the person' here.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

More importantly, how do we know that that person is the real guy?

― Mickey Black Eyes, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The person is Saul Williams I assume, who to his infinite credit replied on the actual ILE thread too.

I got e-mailed by David Cavanagh correcting the sense of a paraphrase I made of something he'd said in his Creation book. I had implied he was a crack-addled mentalist, probably, and accepted the correction with good grace.

It's always worth remembering that this is a public forum, as in really public, as in the right combination of google words will get us top of the list, cos greenspun.com is quite highly ranked. With small artists and most journalists that right combination = their name, often.

― Tom, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Does this also explain the resurgence of Lloyd Cole fans? Or is it just that the Negatives album is absolutely brilliant?

― youn, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'Saul Williams' = 'major-label US artist' = ???

Youn is on the dollars, of course.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mark, an easy way to search IL*:

go to this thread, scroll down, and drag the links i posted at the bottom to your browser toolbar. you'll get 'New Answers' for ILE and ILM, and an search on the whole greenspun.com site (which is mostly the LUSENET message boards) to search them both. this will work for IE 4+ and Netscape 4+

― m jemmeson, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

major label = island/def jam.

― ethan, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Who the hell is Saul Williams?

― Ally, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Good Lord, of course I had to receive a lenghty e-mail from the artist just a minute ago. I don't want to get into verbal argument with this guy over why I don't like his work. Grhmpf...

― JoB, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Saul Willams, ladies and gentlemen. Decide for yourself.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Job, just post it here. That'll shut the fucker up.

― Billy Dods, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And I should note in looking over Mr. Williams' page and that latest news item that I'd be embarrassed to have some of that puffery there. I mean, get this:

"Whether this is done to simply build a
buzz around an alternative act or to gage
the response of the public, Amythest Rock
Star is passing the test with flying colors
(chakra). It's 2001, so artists like Saul and
of this generation can no longer be
categorized as "ahead of their time". In the
words of Victor Hugo, "there is nothing
more powerful than an idea whose time
has come".

If you're reading, Williams -- what the hell? Tell your flacks to remove their noses from your bum.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i don't like at all how this is being treated.

― ethan, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey Job! Tell him Alacrán said that he should put out a book of his poetry/lyrics instead of trying to sound like a second rate Living Color!:-)

― Alacrán, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

how about i tell him? oh, and he has two books of his poetry/lyrics out, 'she' (which i have and is beautiful) and 'the seventh octave' (i think it's called, i don't have it).

― ethan, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm with Ethan on this one. I've seen no evidence that Saul Williams has been rude to Job at all, he's conversing with Job off-board, and suddenly we're all treating him like he's Doom Patrol? I have never heard a note of SW's music incidentally, and from descriptions I doubt I'd like it, but come on people, anyone who has the balls to get in and answer critics on music boards in person should get at least some respect, surely.

― Tom, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i don't like at all how this is being treated.

There's an interesting irony in your statement, Ethan, that I need not point out. I trust.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The tone here seems to be "Har har one of those musicians has wandered into OUR TERRITORY lads, lets SCRAG HIM!". We've been here before with the "Simon Reynolds is a gobshite" thread, and I think there was a very rude one about Everett True, too. I would suggest that before making any more comments about this geezer people who haven't already go and read his original, public, humble and reasonable comments on the Roots Manuva vs Saul Williams thread. Thanks.

― Tom, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As far as I'm concerned, every musician ever who can be bothered should be on the board. I have nothing against Mr. Williams, but if we're talking public comments, said note on his webpage grates where the one here on ILM does not -- and again, I did say, perhaps not clearly enough, that it was someone other than him who wrote his news item note.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"That'll shut the fucker up."

That's not nice and I certainly had not intended to arouse this kind of reaction. I've written Mr Williams a polite e-mail stating what I think of his work. I don't think I should post it here. However, for your information, here are the lyrics to Coded Language, which I happen to think are pompous. That's all there is to this.

― JoB, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Let them read it and hear by God. Honesty is bliss.

― Luptune Pitman, Tuesday, 16 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What's the big deal here? Just be thankful you still aren't getting strange emails that "prove" Janet Jackson is better than Madonna.

― Nicole, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

On reflection i may have been a bit harsh, but I was in that mood last night (check out the Van M thread). It's not big and it's not clever and I'm sure Job is big enough to fight his own battles.

― Billy Dods, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

btw saul williams was very active in the ny poetry scene before ever making music, so snide comments about rappers making 'peotry' arent applicable really....

i really like 'elohim 1972'. i had to ship it from the states just to get it.

― ambrose, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Actually, following what Youn said about Lloyd Cole - one grate thing re. ILM is that it's probably THE ONLY MUSIC FORUM IN THE WORLD where Lloyd gets mentioned as much as he deserves, even by people who don't much like him. I wonder if Lloyd ever reads ILM and wonders why he gets mentioned so much here when the rest of the world has forgotten who he is?

― the pinefox, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And he would be mentioned even more if you'd write that Lloyd article. NB where did you write the earlier one - an issue of Papercuts I don't have?

― Tom, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I can give you a copy some time if you like. It was a sort of history of LC, among other things - not entirely a 'critical essay', but more a reminder who on earth he was. If you really want me to write something for ILM (and it's very nice of you if you do) it'll have to be somewhat different in emphasis. I had better stop going on in 'public' about putative and unwritten articles, anyway.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two months pass...

Return of the Brides of "Just Watch What You Say" Part IV:

I had a private e-mail from A Semi-famous-ish Musician over Christmas, responding to something I wrote on a C/D thread. Fortunately, I was on the "Classic" side of the fence, whew. Still, if you're looking for a new year's resolution other than 'I must hear more records this year', make it "Remember that the world is watching".

― Jeff W, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hmmm....I would say "remember the world is watching" & go on & write what you were going to anyway. It would be a shame if Xchange of knowledge & opinions was fux0red by ph34r of what some musician is going to think of you.

― Norman Phay, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That's what I meant, indeed. I was just offering a reminder to all based on my own experience.

― Jeff W, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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