Let's Talk About Kraftwerk

You scare me. And clearly you don't collect Muslimgauze releases.

Favorite moment? Oh easy, opening two/three minutes of "Europe Endless," building up to and then a little while into the drum beats. Perfect bliss. *floats*

Early albums -- quite good, actually, Krautrock weirdstuff. I'm into it.

Not very detailed, but my attention is split here waiting for the Corey Haim Burns Out Badly bit. The best parts so far are the scary pictures of Corey Feldman looking like Michael Jackson in 1995...in 1988.

Ned, you must realize that compared with the rest of the ILM collective, my CD and LP collection is straight up PALTRY--puny--a wee corner of the musical universe. My collection could be swallowed several hundredfold into the gaping and ever-hungry maw of the indomitable Raggetstacks.

Early albums -- quite good, actually, Krautrock weirdstuff. I'm into it.

I agree wholeheartedly. I just got Kraftwerk 2 the other day, and I'm surprised at how sparse and post-rocky in a Chicago (but without the trite jazziness and cute referencing, and much "deeper") the second half of the record is.

Not very detailed, but my attention is split here waiting for the Corey Haim Burns Out Badly bit. The best parts so far are the scary pictures of Corey Feldman looking like Michael Jackson in 1995...in 1988.

Ummm, yeah, sure Ned... am I missing some crucial tie-in here? ;-)

That being said, that's the only negative thing I can say about them. Otherwise I enjoy their music immensely and wholly agree that they were ahead of their time. Although I don't think Computer World was a very good album, compared to their earlier works, if that counts as slagging them.

When I 1st read that I thought you meant the band Chicago. You don't tho', huh?

That's *Raggettstacks* you incorrectly spelling punk. But I forgive you, as that's quite a good name for these towering collections looming over my desk and all...

But I forgive you, as that's quite a good name for these towering collections looming over my desk and all...

Yes, Ned... you have one of the most prefixable and suffixable names I've ever encountered. "Raggettism is threatening our political hegemony." "I'm going to the hospital for a Raggettoscopy." "That guitarist is steeped in Raggettronics." "Our army was Raggetted from all sides." "Only in a Raggettopia would you find such a sight." Und so weiter...

Second-most revered band on ILM though? Who is first then? MBV? Or Britney?

My only other complaint is that "Electric Cafe" sounds like it should have been released in 1983, when in fact it was released in 1986. What a difference three years make... woop. But they're forgiven, as a 45 rpmed version of the title track became the "Sprockets" theme.. yay.

(Yeah, I know, bad example picking Arthur Baker, I've got "Planet Rock" going on in my head now... forget I mentioned him, OK?)

Given that I had to hunt high and low for copies of "Kraftwerk" (being a Brit, I didn't know about "1" and "2" until I saw them at record fairs later on, it was just a bizarre double album on Vertigo that made no sense in relation to anything else they did) and "Ralf and Florian", but loved them even more. I could probably say I think "R&F" is my favourite album of theirs, for the sheer musicality of it, the movement from natural sounds (the flute, that strange guitar) to electronics. "1" I love, if only for the utterly funky "Ruckzack" which pounds along like nobody's business, and "Stradivarius" sounding more Stooges than anything else. "2" is peaceful and strange and yeah, I can see what you mean about it being post-rock. But "R&F", from end to end beauty, without any of the grating moments that popped up before, as if they've got all the ugliness out of their system and wanted to concentrate on melody now.

"Radioactivity" doesn't get mentioned too often either, because it's probably too strange, and some of it sounds remarkably dated. I had a mid-70s Roland monosynth for many years and could make the sounds from the likes of "Airwaves" perfectly. Oh, "Airwaves" what a tune! And when those two synths start soloing against each other in the middle from either side of the stereo spectrum, it sets my heart aglow. And the finale of "Transistor" and "Ohm sweet ohm". Can I add that my first exposure of "Transistor" was sitting in the back of the car travelling home down the motorway going across the Severn Bridge at night, the sodium lights reflecting off the water and in my eyes and ... beautiful.

"TEE" is odd, it DOES sound gay in retrospect but the intro of "Europe endless" also sounds gay in the old meaning of the world, incredibly happy, joyous and free, the possibilities of the future unfolding. I had a French copy of "TEE" for years, so know the words to "Showroom dummies" in French. Ho ho. "Man machine" is more streamlined and a bit less perfect for it, over-exposure to "The model" has dulled it for me, but "Neon lights" is still a moment to treasure no matter how many people try covering it (OMD respectfully, Simple Minds not so respectfully). "Computer world" was perfectly timed (I bought it the day my brother bought an electric guitar, showing our divergence in life), it sounded intrinsically modern and - oh my god - am I the only person here who watched "The computer programme" in the early 80s, Fred Harris showing us all how to program a BBC Micro? Well it had "Computer world" as it's theme, an animated owl flying through someone's window, and it's always going to remind me of that. Side two is flawless. "Tour de France" equally so, and I wish oh wish oh wish that the recent CD single had the original 1983 12 inch mix on it, because there's a section of electronic drumming on there which is heartstopping, during the first orchestral section in the second half of the song.

And then "Electric cafe" - a long wait for not a lot of music. I found it very disappointing at the time, at points it sounds like a demo record for the Yamaha DX7 (the part of "Techno pop" where the lead sound changes on each repetition), and by 1986 that was WAY out of date, showing how a few years time had passed them by completely, but it still had "Sex object" and "The telephone call" so I can forgive it, and listening to it more recently, it sounds more contemporary than ever (Timbaland listened hard, I suspect). Then "The mix", a nice idea and some good remixes ("Radioactivity" updated completely) but still too in thrall of the current styles and technology, and as Kraftwerk had proved already they were always ahead of the game there, they didn't HAVE to prove themselves. I've got a great bootleg video of a show they played in Nottingham Uni in '92 as warmup for the Greenpeace show, which has lots of tracks in "Mix" style. As for "Expo 2000", it was nice to have them around again, and nice to hear they hadn't really progressed. Let's face it, if Kraftwerk never made another record after "Tour De France", nobody would really have cared that much, their place in history is assured, we don't need them any longer, but heck - we're always going to wonder what the hell they're going to do next.

Sorry if I've gone on a bit, but... hell, do I care about it really? No. Love and peace, folks.

Oh yeah now i also remember: worst Kraftwerk song ever: The Telephone Call. Now that one sounds positively gay! ;)

As for Radioactivity: that's probably my favorite album, although it has less, you know, proper tunes and songs (one of the reason i guess it is mentioned less than the others).

Most Revered? Must be Kraftwerk or JoyDiv. What about Lloyd Cole though?

"Radioactivity" is the odd one out and I'm sure some people will say it's their weak spot, though I don't agree - in the context of what's happening right now in electronic music it's probably their most influential record, though nobody really directly claims them as an influence any more.

I don't like "Electric Cafe" or "Expo 2000" much - though I do very much enjoy "The Mix".

My fave: The Ralf and Florian alb. I prefer some of the 'versions' on 'The Mix' to the originals (esp. 'Autobahn'). And I'm with Tom on 'Expo 2000' and 'Electric Cafe' being (relative) let-downs, space as a music parameter (???) notwithstanding. But just for re-defining the idea of 'soul' music, they reign supreme.

Yeah, I've heard that's a good read... but dirt of Ralf and Florian? This I've got to know!

I love the first four bars of "Pocket Calculator," the synth sounds so stark and pure and chillingly beautiful--it really seems like they're creating a new kind of world in those first few bars.

Also, although I guess it can be slightly corny, I still LOVE Florian's Funky Flutework on the first LP, especially "Ruckzuck," and it's a treat to hear Klaus Dinger drumming for them.

I love the song "Antenna" from Radio-Activity like nobody's business, especially when the octaves enter in sync with the lasery sounds-- awesome.

The main melody line of "Pocket Calculator" was played on a tiny portable kid's toy synth from the late 70s called...(wait for it) ... The Bee Gees Rhythm Machine.

The Mix is good, a bit better than I expected overall although I was a little disapointed b/c I thought all the sounds flowed one into another. You know, like A MIX for Christ's sake. But still some good stuff. It seems like much of it was actually re-recorded and not just re-mixed (like vocals in "Pocket Calculator"). Is this true?

The vocal break on The Mix version of "Autobahn" is certainly one of their finest moments. That about brings me to tears.

Favorite Krafwerk moments for me are the sentimental, folky closing songs. Like the last track on Autobahn (I remember the Eng. translation as "Morning Walk"). I love those flutes! They realized the flute is the most electronic-sounding instrument, probably cuz it's close to a sine wave. Also "Ohn Sweet Ohm" at end of Radioactivity. Wouldn't you love to hear either of these covered by Albert Ayler? That German folk song thing. Also, "Franz Schubert" is my favorite track on Trans Euro.

Really??? The very first thing you hear on the song? I don't think we're talking about the same thing. The first part, that goes (in intervallic terms) 7-root-5-5-4-7-root-4-4-3... that probably doesn't help at all. Just listen to the track, it's the very first thing you hear.

I don't understand why the cover of T.E.E. is being termed gay and laughable; it's a really nice formal portrait. It also introduced their new image; previously they were long-haired and bearded. I think the front, back and inner sleeve photos are very nice.

Yes, Sean, but they're so very... nice, as you say. Genteel, clean- cut, sober--not at all like anything else from that point in the 70s, but now that I think about it quite possibly one of the most punk- rock album covers ever.

That said, it's really hard to be negative about anything before The Mix, except for patches of Electric Cafe. I personally love the first three LPs, because they're hypnotic and organic at the same time. But The Man Machine is THA SHIT. It's GRATE. C'mon now.

I do understand why they do not release as much as they once did. I think they had their say, and they are interested in other things. This may shock some ILM'ers, but the music business is not nearly as interesting from the inside as it is from the outside. They had a strong 15 years or so, and I can understand why their priorities would change. It must be so bloody boring to be them, and have every creative step you make second-guessed by somebody who does not even know you because it does not live up to their expectations because the music press decided that a record you made 20 years ago is the pinnicle of all recorded electronic music. Better to be free and unknown than revered and trapped under the weight of expectation.

No, according to group mythology, it was played using a Texas Instruments calculator that the group picked up in the late 70's/early 80's while doing Christmas shopping. They also picked up a Speak and Spell or whatever that toy is called, and Florian re-programmed it to say other things (birth of 'Numbers' anyone?)

As for their music, well I couldn't possibly put it better than Rob M. From now on every time I listen to Transistor, I too am gonna be driving across the Severn Bridge, watching the lights twinkling in the water. Just want to add: Kometenmelodie 2!!!! Tho' has anyone else noticed how much of a debt that owes to 'Somewhere' from West Side Story??

Nor will you — though I feel like maybe the Bussy book has some photos of them cycling. As I recall, Flur and Bartos left in part b/c Hütter insisted they cycle, Dexy's-style, everyday...

Just flagging this wireless broadcast up:

Kraftwerk: We Are the Robots

Thursday 22 November 2007 11:30-12:00 (Radio 4 FM)

Marc Riley traces the career of Kraftwerk, whose 1970s electronic music owed more to the experimental German classical compositions of Karlheinz Stockhausen than to any pop tradition. They were part of a new generation of young West Germans, living in the shadow of the Cold War, who identified with the need to recapture a German cultural identity distinct from that of Britain and America.

Might be heisse, might be scheisse, who knows?

Marc Riley traces the career of Kraftwerk, whose 1970s electronic music owed more to the experimental German classical compositions of Karlheinz Stockhausen than to any pop tradition

But this is scheisse, nein?

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What you selling those for, ya diddy

I have LPs.

(OK, not the org one, but hey it's 1) boring on tape 2) cha cha cha)

oops boring.

But this is scheisse, nein?

I think it's oversimplified at least, but this isn't something I'd claim to know a whole heck of a lot about TBH.

Well, that Organisation one is more Stockhauses than Beatler, but I don't know much stockhausen tunes TBH.

Sounds more like the Beatles than Stockhausen

OK, if you say so.

Mark your pictures on your Dawnrazor listing are all fucked up (wrong thumbnail in Shop view then Bauhaus Kick in the Eye EP vinyl pic in the main listing)

oh ta.

OK, if you say so.

I admit the only Beatles album I've ever owned is the Yellow Submarine soundtrack, so maybe you shouldn't take my word for it