Twelve

Having played one occasionally (in moments of rare acoustic quasi- wussiness), I like the fact that you've got plenty of strings in reserve when you bust a few. I realize that's not the point of them, but then not everyone plays guitar like me.

'Cuz it's a BITCH replacing the li'l tiny strings. Plus, it's like a banjo, you can't ever sound 'moody' on it.

Q - your point re moodiness is interesting.

C - don't think I knew you played. I am surprised at your defence of the 12-str, anyway! Not one I'd have thought up.

Part of the problem of electric 12 strings is the pre-eminence of the Byrds and '64 Beatles. As soon as anyone picks up an electric 12 string, they feel compelled to play either the opening chord of "A hard days night" or the intro to "Mr Tambourine Man". And then any reviewers who sees a band playing a 12 string goes on about the Byrds and the Beatles like the band is adding to the lineage (for example, Stone Roses, early REM, anyone else with a 12 string Rickenbacker). As for acoustic 12 strings, sod it, go and play some Tim Buckley or something, that's moody and 12 string isn't it?

And yes, I love the way they sound, my perfect guitar would be one of those late 60s cherry red Gibson 335-12s, like Julian Cope used from about 1982 onwards (see sleeve of "You disappear from view" and the photo inside "Repossessed"). I would KILL for one.

But which Roses exactly had 12-strings on them? There's a lineage of bright arpeggio sounds which seems 'Byrdsy' but is strictly 6-string. I always thought the Roses were in that category. Perhaps you can put me right.

(cf also: rarity of 12-strings on Smiths records?)

John Fahey's version of 'America' (NOT the S&G song) on 12-string is pretty 'moody'. Seem to recall it's the only time Fahey played a 12- string on record, but maybe Otis knows differently.

Yes, PF I 'play' after a fashion. I've been in many bands of mainly abject mediocrity since 1977. Highlights include a few records,two items of fan mail from France in 1985, a review by Jerry/Everett in the NME (which he doesn't remember, not surprisingly), supporting The Primitives a few times, and that's about it! Oh and an article in The Reading Evening News - "Reading Band about to sign to Factory Records" - we lied! Main periods of activity were 1983-1986, and 1995/6.

Actually, breaking the habit of a musical lifetime, the last band I was in (Electric Rembrandt) was bloody brilliant, mainly due to a fantastic singer. Described in a review as "indignant microdot punk- pop", we imploded soon after when the singer decided she hated the rest of us, and cleared off.

After half a decade off, I'm planning to start up again soonish.

Like Q said they always sound "sparkly". If you don't want your song "sparkly" then it's not on.

Hey - who wouldn't want their song "sparkly"??

Well there you go.

LIMITED ENGAGEMENT

The Pinefox's "Dimes in a Trashcan Trio"

banjo
12-string guitar
harpsichord

(All songs guaranteed to contain a melody)

here comes treble?

please, don't pay me any mind.

"I like the fact that you've got plenty of strings in reserve when you bust a few. I realize that's not the point of them"

I've seen Arto Lindsay live - that *is* the point of them.

Ahh, you've gotta love a Rick electric 12 string. I have one of the little ones and basically any random thing you play sounds cool. I guess it's a bit like a specific effect though, gets old if used too much. Oh, and they are a bit difficult to keep in tune and restring...

g

12 string acoustic guitars are VUNDERFUUL! I borrowed my mom's for the longest time, and used it on several recordings.. but she wanted it back...

Was I the only one who saw this thread title and thought of Sesame Street and pinball?

No, but I did think of Sesame Street and that guy who keeps falling over while he's holding all those pies. Back to 12-strings? Did anyone read the 'New Statesman' piece where the writer said he could know longer listen to Alex Chilton due to Chilton's suspected paedophilia?

'where he could NO longer..." of course! Goddam phonetic typos!

Speaking of which, you also could've named the thread 'Thirteen'!

Dr C, what was the name of the band you had 85/86 it's possible (but unlikely) that I may have one of your singles?

A Nation Mourns. No singles. Some trax on indie comps and also for some reason we did a couple of joint releases with other bands on European labels. One was some sort of EP packaged in a box which came wrapped in a net - I think it had Lustmord or Muslimgauze or Legendary Pink Dots on it as well. I never actually owned one, but I think TH, our singer has it. Don't even know the label - it's probably highly collectable!

Maybe you can re-unite, and A Nation Mourns can tour with I Am the World Trade Center

Ow!!

I am impressed by C's pop past. The Primitives bit is just the icing on a tasty cake. 'Respect'.

I am not sure I understand what Hand is trying to tell me, esp. the 'Limited Engagement' bit.

I like Bill Clinton.

Could our vocab re. the 12-st do with some more adjectives?

I think the reason 12-sts are underused is that it's hard to be subtle on them - they encourage a certain kind of forthright, clear playing - which sounds fabulous, but is not, perhaps, that variable, or given to nuances of light and shade.

**I am impressed by C's pop past** Yes, but you didn't hear us!

**Maybe you can re-unite** - We are, we are. Back in early 2002! Want to play 12-string for us, Pinefox?