Site New Answers Search Boards ILE ILM Answers New Question New Questions New Poll Blog View Register Login

why are music fans so eager to reevaluate famous failures of the past when they're happy to shit all over whatever's bombing right now?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
kind of a rhetorical question, really, but what the hell.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Instant schaudenfruede now, whereas later when the musician has been dropped/entered rehab/died/otherwise been ground into the dust/ignored, then you can feel better about saying nice things.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

also, distance, perspective, all that stuff

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:11 (twenty-two years ago)

some albums genuinely take a long time to get into

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Which albums by formerly revered artists are currently being reviled, anyway? Apart from N.E.R.D.?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

That sounds snippy - it's not meant to be. I'm sure there are lots but my brain is mush right now.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

isn't there something sort of smug and snide about people who go around saying "_____ was reviled when it came out but mwahahahaha we know better, don't we?" all this is very subjective, but i always wonder what such a person's opinion would have been when said record first came out.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Instant schaudenfruede now, whereas later when the musician has been dropped/entered rehab/died/otherwise been ground into the dust/ignored, then you can feel better about saying nice things.

People still say nice things about Weiland?

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:15 (twenty-two years ago)

re-evaluation is for chumps

― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:17 (twenty-two years ago)

what about the opposite? how often does that happen?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:17 (twenty-two years ago)

how often does what happen?

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

fans re-evaluating albums that were initially critically acclaimed and finding them shitty

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

People still say nice things about Weiland?

Chuck Eddy to thread!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

fans re-evaluating albums that were initially critically acclaimed and finding them shitty

That's ILX right there!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

fans re-evaluating albums that were initially critically acclaimed and finding them shitty

that's what i thought you were asking. (ilm to thread.)

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

XPOST

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess so!

(double xp with a cherry on top)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

would you say that was more common in the world of ilm than in the other world of music fandom, wherever that world may be?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

NEW THREAD: Look back at albums that critics liked but you hated and that now you've realized are genius and go "Jesus, this is really great. . . WTF was wrong with me for not realizing the critics who praised that were right all along? and then kill yourself. Please.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

why are music fans so eager to reevaluate famous failures of the past when they're happy to shit all over whatever's bombing right now?

it's hard to re-evaluate new stuff.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the climate's changing as music fans distance themselves agewise and timewise from "the boomer years," the rock-not-being-dead years, etc.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

it's hard to re-evaluate new stuff.

but how about just evaluating it on its own terms, independent of how well it's selling or what the consensus on it is?

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:23 (twenty-two years ago)

People like seeming all iconoclastic and individualist.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i always wonder what such a person's opinion would have been when said record first came out.

in most cases when this happens, those people weren't buying records yet.

the people doing the reevaluating are rarely the people who did the shitting first time around, who by this time are much older, and probably still hate the records but aren't publishing as much pop music criticism as they used to

but how about just evaluating it on its own terms, independent of how well it's selling or what the consensus on it is?

something to shoot for

― (Jon L), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:24 (twenty-two years ago)

who doesn't think they're evaluating an album on its own terms?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like some specifical examples of this type of "music fan" actually. I'm having a hard time thinking of people who really fit this bill.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:28 (twenty-two years ago)

specifical

*bows*

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Detail their names, addresses and rough class rank.

― Dare, Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

type of straw too

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:34 (twenty-two years ago)

who doesn't think they're evaluating an album on its own terms?

this sounds very teenage and angsty, but i don't give a fuck about record sales and i find it all extremely boring when people use poor sales as a stick to beat an artist with, especially among music fans who (a) profess to take pop seriously (b) listen almost exclusively to things that never got anywhere near the charts. i've been seeing a lot of this in the media lately, more than i feel comfortable with.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Like a zombie, this thread requires BRAINS!

― Dare, Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like some specifical examples of this type of "music fan" actually. I'm having a hard time thinking of people who really fit this bill.

fine fine strawman blah blah. fine i don't have anything specific in mind YOU WIN OK? it's just more of an environmental thing that i'm noticing lately, something that's definitely a product of major labels tightening their belt and making sales a bigger priority than ever.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, if this is what I think you mean: when I first bought Cream "Wheels of Fire", I was about 14 or 15 and had an appreciation of 1960s top 40 radio and perhaps a little classical knowledge. That was about it. I didn't really get into any of the album aside from White Room until I was in my 20s when I developed an appreciation for blues.

Same ears, older brain.

― jim wentworth (wench), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:43 (twenty-two years ago)

actually, Jody, now that you've specified what you're talking about (Critics bringing up sales) I understand. I only do it when I want to say stuff like America only liked the two good Oasis songs or something. It's a valid complaint.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Did the ILM hivemind like or hate the new Liz Phair? Did it join the critical consensus that it was horrible, or did it bravely perform instant re-evaluation?

― Sym (shmuel), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the hivemind agreed that she looked hot on the cover.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Well let's look at the ILM hivemind rating scorecard. Oh someone made a takeout order on it. Nevermind.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

haha I was just reading all the old Liz Phair threads. It took me three listens to like it personally, but it looked like most people just hated it period. and I definitely don't recall her getting any positive comments about her looks. Chuck E even noted you can look up her nose!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

and actually, now that I think about all the people who really piss me off by laughing about how Phair's album hasn't sold that much (though she's all over the radio in town these days), I apologize for bringing up the straw man thing earlier. I just needed it clarified that we were talking about critics rather than "music fans."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

the line between the two gets blurry sometimes, especially 'round these parts...

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I consider everybody who ever posts in paragraph here a critic. They're practically blogging.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha uh oh

― (Jon L), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

(I don't want to be a music critic, I want to be a fan. But ILM is too much for me to resist and brings out frightening tendencies)

― (Jon L), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 01:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Technically everyone who thinks is a critic.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 02:01 (twenty-two years ago)

y'all be PUBLISHED critics though.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I write post it notes to my girlfriend too. Stuff like "need milk"! I'm a regular HEMINGWAY!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I said paragraph, you contrarian doink.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Some of the post it notes get pretty detailed. Especially if I am out of face soap.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 02:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I might like this thread better later on, but this other thread totally rocks. And it's completely underground shit:

Deerhoof Song ID

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm confused, is this thread about "blue album deluxe" ??

― reo, Tuesday, 23 March 2004 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"Some of the post it notes get pretty detailed. Especially if I am out of face soap."

Have you never received / read any of those other post-it notes demanding re-evaluation and re-appraisal of the stance you've taken on a particular subject, along the lines of "why don't you get your own face soap for a change, you idle bastard; I'm sick to death of always being the one who has to get the face soap - I'm leaving you and running away with your best friend; your dinner's in the chip shop; goodbye forever"?

Don't you hate it when amateur so-called "critics", with no real understanding, attempt to force their idiotic and ill-conceived opinions on you like that?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 10:20 (twenty-two years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.
Site New Answers Search Boards ILE ILM Answers New Question New Questions New Poll Blog View Register Login