Music trends timeline

c. 2000 BC
The trumpet is played in Denmark

1322
The Pope expressly forbids counterpoint

1990
The peak of twee pop's popularity. In the UK, it is centered around Sarah Records (Heavenly, The Field Mice (Skywriting), The Orchids); in the US, a much smaller fanbase is centered around Olympia, Washington's K Records and includes bands like Beat Happening
Groups like My Bloody Valentine, Lush (Black Spring), Ride (Nowhere) and The Boo Radleys (Ichabod & I) begin to emerge and come to dominate the British mainstream

Music of the United Kingdom
Runrig's Play Gaelic is the first major album in Scots-Gaelic

Music of the United States
Gary Numan (Tubeway Army), Human League ("Being Boiled") and similar artists pioneer the development of New Wave and synth pop....

I'm sorry? Would you like to run that by me just one more time?

Aaah yes, that'll be the legendary Bauhaus from Northampton Massachusetts of course.

Aswad's "Don't Turn Around" is the first chart-topper from a British reggae band and marks the peak of popularity for mainstream reggae

That ain't right, is it?

Music of the United States
....
Releases by Hüsker Dü (New Day Rising), The Replacements (Tim), The Pogues (Rum Sodomy & the Lash)...."

Oh, so The Pogues were American too were they? Presumably those would be traditional Native American folk songs they used to played then?

Sorry, am I being picky?

Music of the United Kingdom
New Wave bands like The Cars (Heartbeat City), General Public (All the Rage), Spandau Ballet (Parade), Adam Ant (Strip) and A Flock of Seagulls (The Story of a Young Heart) achieve their greatest mainstream success.

when the cars moved to the UK, did they have to start driving on the other side of the road?

"why not?? the first part i have no idea, the second part seems about right ( a few years)"

Well, plus at least 10 years minimum I'd have said!

First UK reggae chart-topper? "The Israelites" by Desmond Dekker in 1969 if I'm not very much mistaken; followed by Dave & Ansil Collins' "Double Barrel" in 1971....

k.d. lang (Shadowland) and Tracy Chapman (Tracy Chapman) release albums that help to kickstart a new female singer-songwriter scene

a particularly amazing feat for k.d., inasmuch as she didn't write any of the songs on shadowland.

nickb - yeah, 1983 would fit into my " a few years" as i was thinking of it. i think ub40's "red red wine" charted in 1988 at #1 in america. i'm also thinking that between labour of love and "here comes the hotstepper" you have sort of a ten-year arc followed by a few years of silence where the harder dancehall sound sort of alienated stateside listeners OR the emphasis in reggae/hiphop crossover was on the hiphop end. the middle of that arc being 1988?

The Eagles release Hotel California, one of the best-selling albums of the year and all time; this is the commercial peak of southern rock

So did I - I was trying to point out that that (apart from being incorrect as you've already pointed out yourself) was hardly a watershed in the UK's listening tastes.

That said, I think you'll find that although Mr Dekker himself was of course born in Jamaican, by 1969 he was living in England and the hit version of Israelites was (re-?) recorded in the UK with a UK backing band.

Have you noticed how important folk music is made to appear wrt to the UK when actually, of course, it just ain't?

Well, it certainly was in the UK (Trojan).

Soul music begins to develop out of gospel with recordings like "Cathy's Clown" (The Everly Brothers) and "Chain Gang" (Sam Cooke)

note to vahid: from now on, please refer to the everly brothers as the pinnacles of soul music.

the originators: everly brothers
the innovator: lulu
the elevator: paul anka

1982: the Straycats, on the other hand, are British

1985: The Pogues are Irish now.... (funny I thought London was in England?)

it's under developments in 'Music of Ireland' rather than in ireland.

would you call the pogues music 'of ireland' or of 'of england'?

I think developments in music of ireland is a better category for the pogues than of england, perhaps its the cuchulainn song, or the cats of kilkenny etc but they don't sing about carnaby st.

this thing is impervious to any criticism!

Music of the United Kingdom

David Bowie releases Ziggy Stardust, which marks the height of glam rock and is an important influence on the development of punk rock; similarly influential albums by Lou Reed (Transformer) and Mott the Hoople (All the Young Dudes) are also released

And apparently (aside from the gems already mentioned upthread -- I mean, the Pogues! WTF?) Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle, Whitesnake, Psychic TV and Def Leppard were all American.

In fact, the list seems to be curiously hellbent on not giving the UK much credit for its pop/rock output/influence since 1960. It's often oddly worded, and UK acts are sort of thrown into an undefined "international trends" category without mention of their origin.

And as far as I can tell, the Smiths don't even get a mention until Morrissey leaves.

But then, to be fair, this is a pretty big undertaking, and is a decent start. They probably shouldn't have put it out on the interweb until they'd fully fact-checked, though.

stereolab really should release another metal album.

I think developments in music of ireland is a better category for the pogues than of england, perhaps its the cuchulainn song, or the cats of kilkenny etc but they don't sing about carnaby st."

Maybe not Carnaby Street but they certainly sang about The Dark Streets Of London, The Leaving Of Liverpool, Lullaby Of London, London Girl, A Rainy Night In Soho, Birmingham Six and Misty Morning Albert Bridge!

There again of course, they also sang about The Battle Of Brisbane, Greenland Whale Fisheries, Turkish Song Of The Damned, Fairytale Of New York, South Australia, USA, Night Train To Lorca, Summer In Siam, Girl From The Wadi Hammamat, Pont Mirabau, The Body Of An American....

It hardly matters, I was just saying that as factually incorrect slips in the timeline this one barely registers. Can we call them 'London Irish'? the irish tree, planted on english soil.

how birmingham six could possibly be interpreted as english is odd to me, but perhaps doesn't immediately scream irish-men wrongfully imprisoned to you, as it does to me. the lyrics might paint it better:
But they're still doing time
For being irish in the wrong place
And at the wrong time

Lullaby of london is an Irish emigrant's song:
Though there is no lonesome corncrake's cry
Of sorrow and delight

and so it goes

the pogues name comes from an irish word sure.

but anyways.

Not a band, but "Silly Games" by Janet Kay? Was that a number one? An awful lot of UK chart reggae between 1967-1987 (and there was a lot of it) was British - either British artists or British-resident artists, British studios, British musicians.

I was actually being flip (esp. re: Birmingham Six fwiw) - I don't think our points are actually dissimilar; I was really just groping towards the observation David A made later that "the list seems to be curiously hellbent on not giving the UK much credit for its pop/rock output/influence since 1960".

Of course if we're going to look absolutely logically at where the ancestory of the musicians lies then The Pogues are almost unquestionably Irish - and by the same token North America's contribution has actually been pretty much negligible.

On the other hand, if we're going to look at where the origins of the musical styles come from then I have an unpleasant feeling that The Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who, Eric Clapton, Yes, Genesis, Elton John, Sex Pistols and U2 (just for starters) are all going to end up being identified as USA!

A mere no. 2 (1979) I'm afraid.

So, who was your favourite in 1988 - Verve or Oasis?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/rockandalt/

There's a strong argument to be made that 1982 was some sort of high point for reggae sounds in the UK charts (I'm not trying to argue that this was a creative highpoint though!). Check out these *consecutive* number ones:

Musical Youth - Pass The Dutchie
Culture Club - Do You Really Want To Hurt Me? (does that count, I dunno)
Eddy Grant - I Don't Want To Dance

That was two whole months with skank-pop at number one. What the hell was going on?

I loved that when I was a kid.

Smiley Culture?

Don't you mean Exquisite Corpse as the Bauhaus track? Although I'm struggling to think of anything else easily described as goth-reggae. The Sisters Of Mercy's version of Emma ?

Uptown Top Ranking - which IIRC was a minor re-write of an earlier JA hit called.... oh no, my mind's just gone blank again.... Three Piece Suit And Thing by Trinity

Mystery Beat / Machines In Motion by Red Beat?
Possibly even Turn To Red / Almost Red by Killing Joke?

The Wailers - Mr. Brown

Now I think of it, there's a 1919 single which has distinct reggae overtones (although I can't think which one - did it have wolves on the cover?). Other possibles - Don't Leave Without Me by Play Dead, and I'm sure Balaam & The Angel released at least one cod-reggae b-side at some point.

I'd like to pint out that I did use a "?" in the vain and feeble hope that this might somehow provide me with something to cower behind to escape the full force of his mighty wrath in suggesting this!

"Now I think of it, there's a 1919 single which has distinct reggae overtones (although I can't think which one - did it have wolves on the cover?)"

The one with Wolves on the cover would have been Cry Wolf. After The Fall (B-side of Caged) had a decidedly reggae bass-line too, as did a couple of songs on the album (Alien and Earth Song spring to mind but there could be more - I haven't played that album for years!)

Actually I tend to think Killing Joke and their ilk (e.g. 1919, Red Beat, Ski Patrol) as well as some of the anarcho-punk bands (Epileptics / Flux Of Pink Indians, The Mob, Rudimentary Peni, Zounds) and even to some extent The ((Southern) Death) Cult and Theatre Of Hate; were in some ways almost a missing link between reggae (via punk) and goth.

There again, that's probably just complete arse.

How do those Danse Society records hold up Stewart? Keep seeing that one with the blue cover (on Arista?) going cheap...

Red Beat were great too but sadly I think your chances of finding anything by them are slim.

Danse Society released some great independent singles and a mini-album called Seduction; but when the signed to Arista the album itself was actually quite disappointing (the title track and a couple of other tracks excepted).

You should definitely get the (hugely expanded) reissue of Seduction (with all the pre-Arista singles and B-sides) before Heaven Is Waiting

I remember a little insignificance called People's Instincrive Travels And The Paths Of Rhythm .... not to mention 3 Feet High & Rising ...