Wiley - Treading On Thin Ice

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holy crap its the return of CONSCIOUS RAP

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

(only half kidding. is great. full-er report later tonight.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

talk more plz.

(I am at work, but I left my slsk on all day, meaning that this will be waiting for me upon my arrival home)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

How many R&B tunes are there?

How many vocal tracks?

Is Tinchy on it?

Has anyone seen the artwork yet?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm comin' a-callin' @d@m!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i have to go finish law & order and i have only given it one cursory listen.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I so so want this to be good, but I have a few doubts. I hope I'm wrong. And I'm not just covering myself so that I can look all hip if it's a dud!

(s1ocki- be my guest. though it often crashes during the day)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i often crash during the day!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i know!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

also i won't be on hi-speed again until tomorrow

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm close to crashing now as i just ate a gigantic roti & some fried potato & green onion balls.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

*still trying to think if the return of conscious rap is a good thing or not*

as long as it doesn't sound like Definition Of Sound.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

It's really good. Not as abrasive as I'd expected... very poppy in places. Tinchy is on it, on "Next Level". All vocal tracks except a couple of instrumental interludes. Have only listened to it once (got it today, was going to start a thread but forgot) so no fully-formed/coherent impressions yet!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

adam you'll be happy (?) to know there is at least one MASSIVE r&b cut-up (track #7) ala "you were always"...except imagine that 10x bigger sounding with an opening that sounds like seefeel or fennesz or something.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:55 (twenty-two years ago)

yes yes yes very happy going home now thanks bye!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 00:59 (twenty-two years ago)

The R&B track ("Special Girl") is my favourite on first listen!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

did this actually leak or did you guys just get promos we can't have? :)

― adam west (adamwest), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

it leaked! for all the press i've given xl over the last year they really owe me too.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:23 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck! why did this happen today!

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:24 (twenty-two years ago)

daaamn. who has this on slsk then? been dying to hear this one.

― adam west (adamwest), Thursday, 25 March 2004 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

How long are the interludes - 30seconds or a couple of minutes?

― Jedmond (Jedmond), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I've listened to it twice now! haha Jess is otm about 'conscious rap' on a couple of the tracks, "Doorway" especially. "Problems" isn't on it but should be.

On a couple of the songs Wiley reminds me of Mike Skinner in terms of both delivery and lyrics - the ones where he's larking around, where he probably sounds most British ("Goin' Mad" and "Pies"). His voice is really compelling over a whole album - it's kind of underwhelming at first esp. compared to MCs with really distinctive flows like Dizzee and Lady Fury, but there's this kind of laconic, understated refusal to be all hysterical which I like. There might be a comparison to Tricky in there somewhere.

Maybe it's just cos it's the obvious comparator, I have no idea whether this is a conscious thing or even a relevant point, but he refracts a lot of the themes on Boy In Da Corner through different perspectives - the closing track "I Was Lost" is definitely Wiley's "Do It" or "Stay Positive", the ones about dealing with life's pressures do it in EXACTLY the opposite way to Dizzee. The ones about girls are really sweet. Wiley just wants a special girl, awww.

On one of the songs there is this fantastic moment where everything's slowed down and Wiley e-nun-ci-ates every syllable really calmly.

I'd share it on slsk but I have no idea how to upload songs from a CD and I'm going to bed now anyway, as can be gathered from the incoherence above I am pretty much asleep right now.

(xpost the interludes are all about a minute long)

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Being terminally behind I heard "Wot Do You Call It" for the first time yesterday. Chorus is excruciating yes, but everything else about it was great! "Igloo" cleaned up ever so slightly so that, while still being deliciously dirty sounding, it now booms and glowers to best possible effect. Wiley's rapping on it actually sounds quite Dizzee-esque I thought - no longer emotionless robot a la "I Will Not Lose" or "Ice Rink", and with slight twinges of high-pitched and cracked expressiveness halfway between ridicule and pain.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:08 (twenty-two years ago)

tim you're going to be really surprised by "goin mad" then...it's quite a performance...imagine a grimey "too much brandy"

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:12 (twenty-two years ago)

except, since wiley's a real deep thinker/feeler, he's all keeerazy because there's so much drama in his life, not because of booze

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreeing with Tim, the chorus is easily the worst bit, with Wiley sounding better the faster he gets (maybe only because I can't understand what he's saying - but still). And the beefed up production makes it that more danceable.

Still wierd to see the video to it on Rage (What, Wiley isn't just some strange internet fantasy).

― Jedmond (Jedmond), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:17 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, that's the one thing, everything on this record sounds BIGGER: maybe it's just because i've gotten so used to poor mp3's of unknown origin, but there's like actual bass on a lot of these tracks.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Still wierd to see the video to it on Rage (What, Wiley isn't just some strange internet fantasy).

-- Jedmond (jedmon...), March 25th, 2004.

ahahaha yes, first time i saw it too! the video looks extremely budget.

― Mil, Thursday, 25 March 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Very low budget, but I like how the video runs around showing the method of production/distribution - I can't remember to much, it was around 4 or 5am while I was crashing at a friends place after a night out. There had been a huge run of Guns' N' Roses videos earlier, and now my mind has melted them together - I keep seeing Slash bent over backwards, with his legs splayed as he plays his guitar.

― Jedmond (Jedmond), Thursday, 25 March 2004 03:13 (twenty-two years ago)

OKAY - *phew*

I don't know about conscious rap, but the ghost of the young Ladies Love Cool James hangs over this record like a horny sprite. It's the gutter "Walk Like A Panther"!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 05:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Lex, do you have a different tracklist from me? - I have no "Special Girl".

Anyway, nice to see the originals of "Eskimo" and "Ice Rink" on there. Standouts definitely "the R&B track" which I know as "That's What I Need", which is on the Ruff Sqwad Deja session, and "Next Level", the posse cut with Kano, Tinch, and [someone else]. A lot of people will have already heard "Pick Ur Self Up" and "Happens For A Reason", both well worthy of inclusion (but no "Take Time"!). There's also a vocal version of what was called "Ate All The Pies".

Still getting used to the newer tracks, but this is very very good. Album of the year so far.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:03 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, agreed.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:04 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry junior boys.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't be the only one attempting to project themselves into some alternate universe where nobody has ever heard "Eskimo" and then somehow coming across this album...

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Also great - the chat at the beginning of "Goin Mad"! Wiley has a glowing future in children's television.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I know! That's what I was thinking yesterday! "Imagine if I was hearing this groove for the first time" - I'd have a heart attack!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I suppose I've going to have a heart attack, then? (ie, what is this "Eskimo" of which you speak?)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:38 (twenty-two years ago)

"Eskimo" = classic Wiley, er, riddim, originally appeared ages ago and host to a number of great vocal versions (my favourite being Jamaican DJ Harry Toddler's insano take, "Donkey Kick"). Pretty much the classic Wiley groove ("Ice Rink" equals if not surpasses it, but Eskimo is more representative of his general style).

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:40 (twenty-two years ago)

the version i downloaded has ice rink as an instrumental. i take it that it's not supposed to be..

― adam west (adamwest), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Clarity is mine.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:44 (twenty-two years ago)

No, Ice Rink is instrumental on the record.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:55 (twenty-two years ago)

@d@m, friday

― JaXoN (JasonD), Thursday, 25 March 2004 07:07 (twenty-two years ago)

friday. It is done.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 March 2004 07:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't have a tracklist on me, but the backing track on track 13 is one i've been trying to identify for over a year...

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 25 March 2004 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Really pretty great, although it doesn't have the immediate take-your-head-off power that Boy In Da Corner did the first couple of times you played it. I'd love to know what anyone outside of the Uk is going to make of 'Pies', heh.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 25 March 2004 09:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh and it's Tredding On Thin Ice, at least it is on my copy. Actually it's spelt two different ways on it. Hmm

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 25 March 2004 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

was the orginal vocal of pies (the sharkie diss one) v similar? i never heard it.

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 25 March 2004 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"Oi mayte, d'ya fink I'm a waffla mayte?"

"Well you do go on a bit mate"

"Well d'ya fink I talk a lot an' that?"

"Well yeah mate, you're always yappin' on about somink"

"You know why mate..."

― tinman, Thursday, 25 March 2004 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The Pies diss track was similar, but Wiley aimed the pie eating directly at Sharky (although he readily admits that he's a man of girth, so I don't think his feelings were hurt too much by that in itself).

― tinman, Thursday, 25 March 2004 12:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Favourite bits so far:

the zippy synth melody on "Reason"

the sort-of creepy self-help recitation monologue in "Goin' Mad" - "Get up. Off the. Floor. Pick. Yourself. Up. Dust. Yourself. Off. Realise. I'm someone. Yeah. Yeah!" - exploding into a wave of braggadocio. "I'm Wiley! I'm grimey!"

the bass coming in for the quasi-dancehall chorus of "Treddin' On Thin Ice" while those gorgeous metallic sounds sway above it all

the strings on "I Was Lost"

the tirade of abuse on the answerphone message at the start of "Pick Ur Self Up", that girl going "get a fucking life, get a fucking career, you're not even motivated, get up off your fucking arse and do something!"

the entirety of "Special Girl" and "Pies"

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 25 March 2004 13:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 198 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

sorry i'm dyslexic

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 8 April 2004 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

gelid eel!! a few more puns and i can rvw this without hearing i reckon

shystie to play samus in east end epic metroid: prime steak pie

― prima fassy (mwah), Thursday, 8 April 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i've been trying to think up a good shark major as super mario joke for about five minutes now

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 8 April 2004 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

this ain't a game

er... shark majora's mask?

― prima fassy (mwah), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

jeez and that was 20 minutes of hard thought

― prima fassy (mwah), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

bravo

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

>wiley may be the og grime progenitor and dizzee more removed in comparison but can you really say you won't be repeating the same contexts that dizzcrit already has? unless u were to take the snoozy "my gran chucked me out" inspirational angle of >course

>-- prima fassy (giaou...), April 8th, 2004.

i was the first person to write the "gran chucked me out" angle so i'll take that angle as and when, thanks.

> c) Dizzee is a lot more conflicted as a persona. As others have noted Wiley is more like a geezer down the pub, seems like a charming bloke and all but that's as far as it goes.

>-- bugged out (bu...), April 8th, 2004.

i said it above but it still holds: wiley is more than his album. just because wiley seems "nicer" on his CD dont be fooled. i'd say he's just as conflicted a person. he's very complex to interview as events change, stories change - everything in his life is very hard to pin down. his life, his truths and values are very fluid sometimes which makes interviewing him all the more complex and his persona just as conflicted. just because he sounds composed on his album, don't be fooled.

― martin (martin), Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

well frankly i dont really give a fuck about his life, just his album.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, when he rings me up to ask me about how my move went or if i've found a job yet, then maybe.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

pick ur self up...

― martin (martin), Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

hence why i have been really enjoying this album!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

he's like my own personal self-help guru

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 8 April 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

but the pies.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

the pies will always get me in the end

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, he's destroyed my life. I spent all Monday afternoon looking for a meat pie because he reminded me how good they are.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 8 April 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

idea stolen down the pub just now: wiley's predecessors = billie (because we want to) and carter...

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 8 April 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

i love that there are two threads being spun here, sometimes almost an update of the R&B-esque 2-step and the reallllly early mc garage that got sidelined (especially when Tinchy comes in ... that's what i realized i liked about him -- his enthusiastic tone, like one of the Heartless Crew), other times it sounds like it should be soundtracking Metroid. i don't know if the synths just sound that way because of the software or whatever, but they really strike a chord with me.

― ryan kuo (ryan kuo), Friday, 9 April 2004 10:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"i was the first person to write the "gran chucked me out" angle so i'll take that angle as and when, thanks"

oooo burn! so what, i 'invented' the conflicted grimerapper angle, and postdizz now that's corny too actually! so er... hey i know, devil mixes etc, make out like he's the new lee perry! astounding, it worked for rza huh!! ps don't be fooled

― prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 9 April 2004 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

i met wiley in uptown records once and he tried to explain to me how timbaland/magoo 'indian flute' was a future classic, i told him to get juelz santana 'down' instead but he couldn't concentrate on anything, you know that sort of annoying selfabsorbed higher level flittyness that heavy weed dudes have? yeah

― prima fassy (mwah), Friday, 9 April 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I met Wiley in '98. I told him, "don't do it that way, you'll never sell a record."

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 9 April 2004 23:25 (twenty-one years ago)

haha

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 9 April 2004 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

your b-side is better

― prima_fassy (mwah), Friday, 9 April 2004 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Wot Do U Call It? has charted (in the UK) at number 31...

― JoB (JoB), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

dizzee announced on friday that his new album is coming out in july.

― Chris Houghton (chrish), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 10:04 (twenty-one years ago)

wow. that will determine his fate, no doubt.

luv the wiley album. there hasn't been much talk abouit his sounds on this thread. i'm surprised that the hataz haven't come up with the usual preset disses. anyway, it's damn effective, very musical and stripped-down, but how innovative is it, really?

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

It has a track about pies -> It is our generations Trout Mask Replica (possibly even Village Green Preservation Society)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 19 April 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

the pie track is fantastic

― chris (chris), Monday, 19 April 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

As, Wiley is popular on ILM: News Alert:

Wiley is on Xposure show with John Kennedy for a chat - NOW - tune in online:

Xfm
http://www.xfm.co.uk

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

For the most part, Treddin' on Thin Ice suffers from the same navel-gazing isolationism that afflicts most UK garage, according to the Independent reviewer, who gives it two stars out of five.

― JoB (JoB), Saturday, 1 May 2004 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha "navel-gazing isolationism"!!! Now, it's one thing to just assume that Dizzee Rascal is totally representative of all grime ever, but it's quite another to do so while pretending to have some authority on the matter.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 1 May 2004 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd forgotten that Andy Gill existed. He used to make me so so angry back in the day. Grrr.

― The Lex (The Lex), Saturday, 1 May 2004 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha "navel-gazing isolationism"!!!

Wiley is secretly a front for Techno Animal! Oh that wacky Kevin Martin...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 1 May 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

Hey, when does this album come out for regular people? Release date? I'm not in the UK.

― Debito (Debito), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 08:49 (twenty-one years ago)

It's already out in the UK, don't know about anywhere else.

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/review.php?ID=1968

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 08:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Release date in rest of Europe (Benelux at least) same as UK release date.

― JoB (JoB), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Just wanted to say that I love this album.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 24 May 2004 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Good.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

So do I

― Keith McD, Monday, 24 May 2004 04:26 (twenty-one years ago)

there are more thoughts on my blog now.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 24 May 2004 05:44 (twenty-one years ago)

i would post my voice review, but i'm not very happy with it.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Rumour has Roc-a-Fella chasing Wiley. This is from quite a reliable source. The reliability of Damon Dash, on the other hand, I wouldn't know about.

― JoB (JoB), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:47 (twenty-one years ago)

i think it's a fab record and i've written nothing about it, not even here. it's actually really nice to like a record this much, leave it the fuck alone and just enjoy it for myself for once. that's all i'm saying.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Monday, 24 May 2004 10:49 (twenty-one years ago)

It was nice, I enjoyed it more consistently than the Dizzee Rascal, though at the same time Boy in the Corner had more variety musically to my ears.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Can I just say that a Tinchy/Ruff Sqwad album would probably rule? Tx.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

I finally dled this and have been listening to it quite a bit. Otherwise I have nothing to add. Do wish I had some other grime to compare it to though. Someone smart say something.

― artdamages (artdamages), Saturday, 26 June 2004 05:40 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't listen to the whole thing but i like it.

― gaz (gaz), Saturday, 26 June 2004 07:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I often hear people say that they can't listen to the whole thing about Dizzee too. I can listen to the whole thing, but I understand where you're coming from.

Anyways, I finally got this, and I freaking love it.

― Debito (Debito), Saturday, 26 June 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I bought it on double vinyl for some reason and haven't really bothered to listen to it properly, nor as an 'album'. But. I do love 'Next Level' alot, and learnt Tinchey Stryder's verse after my first listen. His voice has changed alot since those 'ice rink' days.

― scg, Saturday, 26 June 2004 13:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it is still somewhat quietly great. What has the reception in the UK been like?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Pretty much just a token hipster hit i think, though it's quite popular amongst UK hip hop dudes that i know.

― scg, Saturday, 26 June 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

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