Muddy Waters' "Electric Mud" - C/D?

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No, it's not the Muddy Waters of the 1950s, but that's a good thing. EM sounds like a Funkadelic album from 1970 with Muddy on guest vocals, and if that doesn't sound good to you, well, you're just wrong. Pete Cosey was one of the most unfairly ignored and/or maligned guitarists in the history of black music for years, and this is his show as much as it is Waters's.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

has it been reissued or something? has the howlin wolf album?! (plz god say yes.)

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like to hear this album

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

There's been a reissue available for a couple of years.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

But not the Howlin' Wolf...

NickB (NickB), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

sigh.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I'd like to hear that Howlin' Wolf too.

'Electric Mud' is available, and lists cheap, at least in the States. It really does sound a lot more like a Funkadelic record (not least as 'Tomcat' was plagiarized by George--unless vice versa--for "I Call My Baby Pussycat") than it does any other Muddy Waters record I can think of.

And yep, it's classic in my house at least.

M Specktor, Friday, 26 March 2004 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

What's the difference between This Is Howlin' Wolf's New Album and The Howlin' Wolf Album? Each has its own entry on AMG, but the second one also lists Pete Cosey as the guitarist. So I'm wondering whether it was reissued with a different title, or whether there are two over-the-top Howlin' Wolf albums I need to find.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

What else did Pete Cosey play on?

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/drf900/f949/f94965zhvt1.jpg

I was hoping that this was going to be another psychxxxploitation monster - Lightning Hopkins with some of the 13th Floor Elevators, released in 68(?) on International Artists, but it turned out to be mostly pish. Bastard.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

"What else did Pete Cosey play on? "

Most notably, he was a member of Miles Davis's greatest electric band. He can be heard on *Agartha* *Pangea* *Dark Magus* and *Get Up With It*...check out *Agartha* first. Completely agree with Phil Freeman on Cosey. He's unbelievable. Pfunk and Miles Davis were the two best rock bands of the '70s IMO.

Not That Chuck, Friday, 26 March 2004 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

What I should have said is what did Pete Cosey play on apart from Miles.

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

STONE COLD CLASSIC! THAT SOUND!
man, it's like all you black rebel motorcycle whatevers and fucking stripes and turbonegros and what have you - take a listen, this is how you make DIRRRTY r'n'r.

Jay Kid (Jay K), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

"What I should have said is what did Pete Cosey play on apart from Miles. "

Oops. Sorry. He plays on at least one of the Burnt Sugar records.

Not That Chuck, Friday, 26 March 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

He was one of the founders of Earth, Wind and Fire, but before that he played on lots of blues and soul things - Al Green, Etta James, Fontella Bass...

None of it is anything like Electric Mud though. That records is nuts.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 26 March 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

There was another Muddy Waters album with the same band called After The Rain, but like the Howlin' Wolf album it's out of print.

Hayden Nicholls (Pop the Weasel), Friday, 26 March 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm intrigued by this but I haven't heard it. I know there was a whole episode of Martin Scorsese's recent blues series on PBS that was dedicated to this album, but I missed that night. It seems that the more traditionalist Muddy fans disdain Electric Mud as a misconceived Chess gambit to appeal to a younger market.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 26 March 2004 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Man, I've always wanted to hear this record for the Pete Cosey factor, thanks for reminding me about it.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 26 March 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

His playing on Pangaea is just off the fucking chain.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 26 March 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I bought this for my sister but haven't heard it yet. I remember it getting a bad review on AMG.

oops (Oops), Friday, 26 March 2004 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha! Yeah, I just read this from AMG:

In an attempt to make Muddy more sellable to his newly-found White audience, Chess lumbered him with Hendrix-influenced psychedelic blues arrangements for Electric Mud. Commercially, actually, the results weren't bad; Marshall Chess claims it sold between 150,000 and 200,000 copies. Musically, it was as ill-advised as putting Dustin Hoffman into a Star Wars epic. Guitarists Pete Cosey and Phil Upchurch are very talented players, but Muddy's brand of downhome electric blues suffered greatly at the hands of extended fuzzy solos. Muddy and band overhaul classics like "I Just Want to Make Love to You" and "Hoochie Coochie Man," and do a ludicrous cover of "Let's Spend the Night Together"; wah-wah guitars and occasional wailing soprano sax bounce around like loose basketballs. It's a classically wrongheaded, crass update of the blues for a modern audience. The 1996 CD reissue adds interesting historical liner notes. — Richie Unterberger

It gets 1.5 stars. After The Rain gets just one.

NickB (NickB), Friday, 26 March 2004 16:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Who the fuck cares if it's 'authentic' 'downhome' Muddy or not? just tell me if it sounds good, y'know?

oops (Oops), Friday, 26 March 2004 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate the capitalization of races in people's writing. It's "black," not "Black." (As a side note, ever noticed that many writers who capitalize "black" don't capitalize "white"?)

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Friday, 26 March 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

>just tell me if it sounds good.

This is trickier than it might seem. Depends on what you want out of an album. Does Pete Cosey sound good on Electric Mud? Absolutely. Does Muddy Waters? No.

Sanctimony about Da Blooze has waned a lot since the album was initially slammed. And, any misguided marketing strategy behind it can be ignored now. It's easy enough to lift it away from the Muddy Waters catalog entirely.

Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Friday, 26 March 2004 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

this album is amazing - I would kill to hear the Howlin Wolf as well, been lookin for it for many a moon...

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 26 March 2004 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

more props for EM, even if Muddy wasn't particularly fond of it. (per the re-issue liner notes).

I hate the capitalization of races in people's writing. It's "black," not "Black." (As a side note, ever noticed that many writers who capitalize "black" don't capitalize "white"?)

I agree. Of course I've busted myself doing it more than once.

Will (will), Friday, 26 March 2004 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah this album is pretty good for a Charles Stepney record (since that's what it is). Not the first thing I pull out when I want to hear Muddy though.

Pete Cosey also plays on the two Phil Cohran Artistic Heritage Ensemble records (one of which has been reissued). He *might* play on that Spencer Jackson Family record; I'd have to check my copy and it's not to hand.

I doesn't surprise me that Unterberger doesn't like the record, that joyless bastard.

Broheems (diamond), Friday, 26 March 2004 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I love that Message To The Young album by Howlin' Wolf. I love After The Rain too. I'm just a sucker for fuzz. I love that Bo Diddley fuzz stuff as well.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 26 March 2004 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey Scott did anyone put this one on the top 1001 list? It should probably go on there...

Broheems (diamond), Friday, 26 March 2004 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't remember. someone should have.

scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 26 March 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I heard part of this on my local public radio station's broadcast of that Scorsese blues series and I was intrigued. I forgot about it until seeing this thread, so now I may have to investigate further. Thanks ILM!

Jeff Sumner (Jeff Sumner), Friday, 26 March 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's the blurb about that Scorsese episode:

In "Godfathers and Sons," director Marc Levin ("Slam" and "Gladiator Days: Anatomy of a Prison Murder") introduces Public Enemy rapper Chuck D to Marshall Chess, the son of Phil Chess, who along with his brother, Leonard, had the prestigious Chicago blues label Chess Records. The two go on a journey to revise public opinion of one of the worst blues albums ever issued, "Electric Mud." Produced by the younger Chess in 1968, the set featured Muddy Waters in a psychedelic-jazz fusion setting.

It turns out this is the album that started Chuck D's relationship with the blues so he and Chess work to make a contemporary version of the set by pairing hip-hop artists with some of the original "Electric Mud" musicians. The premise is crazy but Chess and Chuck D so admire "Electric Mud" and think their plan is so great that the viewer learns to love their scheme.

o. nate (onate), Friday, 26 March 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I've heard "Electric Mud." I'm no fan of blues purism, so I like it OK. I'm of the opinion that Howlin' Wolf is the man, not Muddy Waters...and Wolf's electric record is better, Wolf could've recorded with the Incredible String Band and came off well.

If I'm not mistaken, the revisionist view of "Electric Mud" comes from the efforts of Robert Gordon in his bio of Mr. Morganfield; an effort to grab some turf, you know? It ain't all that, that LP. But I do love Pete Cosey.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 27 March 2004 17:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw the PBS episode and Chuck D. sure loved Electric Mud. I haven't heard more than excerpts yet but I might be one of those "joyless bastards" who is bored by the extended fuzzy solos. Regarding Phil's comparison, I must confess to liking Parliament's more straightforward songcraft better than Funkadelic and having gotten sleepy-eyed by the extended solos when I saw P-Funk in '81(I think).

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Saturday, 27 March 2004 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I have the Gordon book but haven't yet read it all. At the instore appearance I saw him do for the book I don't recall him talking about Electric Mud much. I know he helped write one of those PBS episodes but i don't think he wrote the one with Chuck D. visiting Marshall Chess.

I'm not sure who was playing guitar for P-Funk when I saw 'em live way back when. Maybe sacriligeous me needs to listen to Cosey some more.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Saturday, 27 March 2004 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

probably Mike Hampton, he was w/PFunk when I saw 'em in 80.
Ironically, those pre-retirement electric Miles albums were dismissed as misbegotten sell-outs (like Electric Mud) in the early 70s. Though who exactly Miles was selling out TO with the likes of On The Corner/Big Fun/Get Up With It/Agartha/Panagea is anybody's guess...not exactly crossover fare, then or now. Purists, go figure.
I'm still trying to decipher where Reggie Lucas' bits end and where Pete Cosey's begin. You could spend a lifetime w/these albums.

lovebug starski, Saturday, 27 March 2004 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

The issue of capitalizing "black" and "white" is not as, err, black or white as suggested above. Techinically, "Black" is often being used not to describe a race but an ethnic group, like "Hispanic" or "Latino," which are traditionally capitalized. But this then raises the question of whether "white" can be taken to represent one singular ethnic group, etc.. it's a messy business no matter what solution you choose. See the ongoing debate here: http://www.poynter.org/article_feedback/article_feedback_list.asp?user=&id=51320

The bottom line is there can never be a single correct answer to questions like this, because our systems of racial classification are basically a bunch of arbitrary BS, and have no basis in logic or science.

More importantly though, the Electric Mud album is fantastic. "Tom Cat" kills me when the saxophone in the left channel starts wylin out at the end of the first verse. That record gets me amped like an MOP track.

Jay Smooth (jsmooth995), Saturday, 27 March 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

>I'm still trying to decipher where Reggie Lucas' bits end and where Pete Cosey's begin.

It's simple, really. Cosey's the one shooting out all the wildass post-Hendrixian fireworks, and Lucas is doing all the one-chord James Brown comping that anchors the music, along with Michael Henderson's bass.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Saturday, 27 March 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm one of those people who like the electric Howlin' Wolf record (This is Howlin' Wolf's New Album and He Don't Like It)alot more than Electric Mud. As a vocalist Muddy doesn't hold a candle to the Wolf especially not when the Wolf's croaking over top of some psych-funk spuzz. Muddy's After the Rain is worth seeking out just to hear "Bottom of the Sea".

Bill Mills (dialecticbricks), Sunday, 28 March 2004 01:00 (twenty-two years ago)

>As a vocalist Muddy doesn't hold a candle to the Wolf

The idea that there's any meaningful rivalry between these two singers … well, died with both of them. Folks like one or the other, but the universe would be an even more wretched place than it is without Burnett and Morganfield in the house together.

Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Sunday, 28 March 2004 04:14 (twenty-two years ago)

eleven months pass...
EVERYTHING...

EVERYTHING GONNA BE ALLRIGHT THIS MORNING

OH YEAH.

mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 3 March 2005 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...

I got a copy of After the Rain on the street in Brooklyn for $6 - pretty good, altho it sounds like Cosey's only on about half of it. Second side is pretty tame.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 22:20 (eighteen years ago)

wtf Howlin Wolf's Message to the Young not domestically available...? every copy I see on ye internets is like $30+, with no artwork or reviews or personnel info or anything

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 22:26 (eighteen years ago)

No way the music on Mud could ever be nearly as humiliating as that absurd kaftan-and-pompadour getup Muddy sports in the back cover photo. (And it isn't, thankfully.)

I've got the "Evil"/"Tail Dragger" single but still kinda regret not buying the only copy of Wolf's New Album I've ever seen. But it was 20 years ago and the critical consensus hadn't yet reversed itself back then.

Myonga Vön Bontee, Thursday, 27 September 2007 04:14 (eighteen years ago)

The best thing about ILM is stumbling on these old, revived, threads about shit you never get to talk about.

Only heard the Mud once or twice but the Wolf is one of those few legendary titles that not only can you pull out to amaze your geeky friends, but when you play it for them... it actually lives up to the hype.

Pete Cosey is rumored to still be living in the Chicago burbs somewhere. I got to go to the Bill Laswell soundstage filming out at WBBM, which was somewhat of a clusterfuck, as you can imagine, Cosey turned up, weighing about 300 lbs and spend most of the few minutes he had on stage (at the end, during some jam redux) sitting in a chair trying to lean over and fiddle with some guitar effects. I surmise that that means he's on a Laswell production somewhere (anybody?).

There're also some boot Miles DVDs with him wailing away.

There's also been a 2nd Phil Cohran CD reissue since the above comments and the Aestuarium one is slowly fading out of print w/Jaime having moved to Rotterdam and Hefty apparently calling it a day. We're down to our last few vinyl copies (the label is out) and I don't know how ther CD stock is and you should really own this album as kind of the missing link between Sun Ra and Earth Wind and Fire (or something).

And in the same lineage check out the Pieces of Peace album that's beng reissued, or been reissued, or something.

factcheckr, Thursday, 27 September 2007 04:25 (eighteen years ago)

Muddy's After the Rain is worth seeking out just to hear "Bottom of the Sea".

i'm sure i've said this before myself (especially since someone emailed me about it years ago). absolutely love this song and it's on my site right now (will be taken down on monday)
http://www.robotsinheat.com/trax/BottomoftheSea.mp3

jaxon, Thursday, 27 September 2007 05:25 (eighteen years ago)

haven't heard Cosey on any Laswell stuff but its been awhile since I bought any Laswell... last I saw Cosey was on that Electric Miles DVD and yeah he's like 300 lbs but still great

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 September 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

Phil Cohran...? I don't think I've ever heard of him (unless he's mentioned in Serious As Your Life somewhere) but love this pic

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200/drp600/p649/p64935ca7nb.jpg

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 September 2007 16:12 (eighteen years ago)

On Aghartha Pete Cosey makes it sound like he's playing guitar from another dimension. That shit's insane.

Bill Magill, Thursday, 27 September 2007 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

two years pass...

Can't believe anyone with even a passing interest in the blues (or rock and roll for that matter) could dislike After The Rain.

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Saturday, 21 August 2010 19:12 (fifteen years ago)


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