Ornette Coleman/Pat Metheny - Song X (and general RFD Pat Metheny)

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I thin this is great, the two drummers totally forceful and booming, Metheny and Coleman connecting right on or running rings around each other, usually noisy and violent but sometimes quiet and . . . a little off in a good-sick kind of way. I like a lot of the noise and guitar-synth sounds PM gets. So far Metheny's batting 100% for me. I've only heard his noise records (and the Steve Reich one) but they're all really good. Do his mainstream releases really not contain any elements of this at all?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 28 March 2004 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

no.
have you heard zero tolerance?

― mullygrubber (gaz), Sunday, 28 March 2004 04:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I like it. And The Sign of 4, which I'm listening to as we speak. That's the thing - he's put out a reasonable amount of very well-done, distinctive and inspired noise improv stuff for a guy with an 'elevator music' reputation. It seems kind of hard to believe that his pop releases wouldn't at least be interesting sonically given the stuff I have heard.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 28 March 2004 04:47 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i know.
song x was a bit of an ear opener for me and i had a mate who had loads of metheny and i tried to find an inkling of goodness in it, but...
(this was maybe 10 years ago though, so i'm not really up to date)

― mullygrubber (gaz), Sunday, 28 March 2004 04:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw Metheny tour behind Secret Story (an "elevator music" record) ten years ago. At one point he sat down with an acoustic guitar and announced he was going to do a solo number. The audience settled in, thinking, "oh nice, this has been real purdy so far, he's doing a ballad." Metheny settled in, got ready - and then he SLAMMED out a chord, and then another, SLAM, SLAM, SLAM, really jarring dissonant sounds, and someone in the audience (I think) actually booed him - then he segued into the proper song, and the band joined in and it went back to something people could deal with.

I think he genuinely likes to play some noise, but I also think he digs fucking with people.

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Sunday, 28 March 2004 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Sundar, try 'Rejoicing', a 1983 ECM trio alb that Metheny recorded w/ Charlie Haden and Billy Higgins - it's not a noize-skronk fest like Zero Tolerance, but it's far from being just the elevator muzak of the Lyle Mays recs - the title track is another Ornette cover.

But the rec that sounds closest to Song X is Tales of Captain Black by James Blood Ulmer, w/ Ornette and Denardo also present and harmolodic

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 28 March 2004 06:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Captain Black has to be one of the best things to come out of the 70s. Ulmer had such a unique percussive sound. Have Freelancing and Revealing too. (Didn't some Ulmer actually make Stairway to Hell?) But you don't like Fuze at all? Grr.

Doesn't PM use guitar synths and stuff on some of his other records?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 29 March 2004 04:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Yep, there's Ulmer in 'Stairway,' though I can't remember what right now. Sundar, you should also check out 'Odyssey' -- my fave Ulmer.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Monday, 29 March 2004 05:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, he definitely seperates out his aesthetics. Some of his stuff seriously verges on smooth jazz, with a touch more integrity and better melodies.

I love his straight-ahead work the most, on Gary Burton's 'Like Minds' or any of his trios (Pastorius/Bob Moses esp, then Dave Holland/Roy Haynes and Larry Grenadier/Bill Stewart mostly). Not that I dislike the noise stuff, I just haven't come across much (I've been wanting to hear Sign of 4 for a long time though).

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 29 March 2004 06:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Pat Metheny- Bright Size Life:
This is a great stripped down guitar trio record with Bob Moses on drums and Jaco Pastorius on bass. Metheny uses his chiming electric tone and there is very active interplay between him and Jaco.

Pat Metheny Group- Off Ramp:
This is the record on ECM where Pat takes off with the guitar synth. The guitar synth solo on "Are You Going with Me" is one of my favorites. The title track is definitely influenced by early Ornette Coleman.

Pat Metheny/Lyle Mays- As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls:
The title track is as close to ambient music as Metheny usually ventures with a mixture of guitar synth, Lyle on Oberheim synths, some field recordings and Nano Vanconselos adding some very tasty singing and percussion. There is also a very nice guitar/piano duet tribute to pianist Bill Evans on this record.

Pat Metheny- Watercolors:
About half this record is the beginnings of the PM Group, as it is a trio and Lyle Mays. The tracks that I really like on this one are the solo guitar pieces like "Ice Fire".

Travels is a good live record of the ECM period PM Group.

What is good about the ECM albums is that if you listen to lps, you can find the vinyl cheap oftentimes, as they were quite popular in their time.

― earlnash, Monday, 29 March 2004 12:07 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

I enjoyed Trio 99->00. His playing has a lot of depth to it. I'll check out Off Ramp next probably. I hear there's a duet for guitar and coffee grinder on it!

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 04:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i watched this joni mitchell concert with pat and he looks like a dong

― big chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 14 September 2004 04:30 (twenty-one years ago)

three years pass...

this is great

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 26 November 2007 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

"Pat Metheny- Watercolors:
About half this record is the beginnings of the PM Group, as it is a trio and Lyle Mays. The tracks that I really like on this one are the solo guitar pieces like "Ice Fire".

Travels is a good live record of the ECM period PM Group."

Those two bored me a bit. I liked the one he did with Charlie Haden though.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 26 November 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

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