Help Me Understand Why Reissues & Remasters Are So Important To So Many

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1) People who claim not to care about sound quality ("I use a broken boombox from '89 and I don't give a toss -- it's the music that counts") re-purchase CDs they already own because they've been remastered; and

2) People take time to download 192kbs MP3s ripped from remastered versions of CDs, (these are albums they already own or have already downloaded) which they then listen to on their computer speakers.

I don't get it. Why?

Wouldn't you rather spend time & money on something you haven't heard before?

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 1 April 2004 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Just doing your part to keep Columbia solvent?

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

People have been duped into thinking that "digitally remastered" means "stupendously modern, sleek, updated, and supercool". That's the CD age in a nutshell.

Of course, it basically means "slightly less background noise".

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

when cd's were introduced and all the record labels scrambled to release their entire catalogues, SHITTY and RUSHED mastering jobs were mostly what we got.

case in point: PiL "second edition" US version

cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

But even as CD's were being phased in, digitally remastered cassettes were popping up everywhere. So it's not just a CD thing.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

sometimes it fixes shit that was wrong with the original pressing (cutting Sara on Tusk, for example)

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Some re-masters either improve the sound quality so drastically that it's worth picking up the title again (eg: remasters of "A Love Supreme" and "Liege and Lief", or the remasters of Hendrix and Zeppelin where the initial CD issues were transferred from vinyl-equalized masters) or actually correct more serious problems with the initial releases (eg: the latest CD issues of "Kind of Blue" and "Dub Housing" corrected tape-speed discrepancies which appeared on earlier issues -- in the case of the former, this had even appeared on the extant vinyl versions).

Incidentally, I do care about sound quality, have an expensive stereo system, don't listen to MP3s, and only use my computer speakers for listening to things online, never for other music. Perhaps that skews the theory.

Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

May fix a bad original transfer to CD, extra material included, deluxe packaging (I still like packaging, feel free to throw rocks at me), lets me feel that much closer to an original vinyl copy of albums without having to actually carry around a 12" disc.

Oh, and I actually do own moderately decent speakers and headphones in addition to the mp3 player, so I might be the minority.

mike h. (mike h.), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never claimed to not be interested in sound quality, so perhaps this thread wasn't directed at me, but even if you discount the value of good sound (which I don't), some re-issues bring other things to the table. For instance, the latest re-issue of Monk's Straight, No Chaser restores large chunks of the original takes that were edited out in order to fit everything onto the 45 minute maximum length of an LP.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think I fall into the group addressed by this thread because I do care very much about sound quality. However, I want to clear up a point that Barry Bruner made. "Slightly less background noise" is the least of the issues that a new master can improve.

With care and attention, along with assistance from the latest in digital technology, extremely sophisticated things can be done to the frequency balance and attack response of the music so that the new master can sound almost entirely different. This is why Bob Dylan's acoustic guitar is so much more present in many of the CD remasters from last year (I'm not even talking about the SACD layers), or other recordings seem "warmer" or "more detailed".

I think it is awful that many original CD masters were not attentively done, but there also have been technological improvements that were not available in the late 80s.

southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

When I say "entirely different" above, I actually mean "much closer to the original intent of the recording than the original CD master".

southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

One more point - at 192 kbps mp3, you will be able to tell the difference between a really attentive remaster and a shitty rushed one. And you even might be able to on computer speakers.

At home, I listen almost exclusively now to well-made MP3s (--alt-preset standard VBRs) through a very good amp on very good speakers - MP3s do not equal computer speakers.

southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 1 April 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I wasn't referring to a good remastering job, more like the crappy ones in the early CD-era with less hiss, flatter freq. response, and so on.

Still, people would buy something like that if it had a "digitally remastered" sticker on it. I took Mark's question not as "why do some audiophilically (?) informed music fans value remasters?", but "why do people who really don't know or care about sound quality believe that a remastered version of a record is something worth buying?"

There's all sorts of "5 CD's a year" music buyers that would purchase a Beatles remaster because a) it's the Beatles, and b) they'd heard from someone that digitally remastering is the shit.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 1 April 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Not just buying but re-buying, that's what I don't get.

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 1 April 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I get you now, Barry. The whole 'hiss' thing is strange - I guess I understand why some people equate background noise with sound quality, but sometimes you have to live with a little hiss to bring out the right frequencies, especially if the original recording was made at a certian time or with less care than it might have been.

Plus, for me, hiss = rock.

southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 1 April 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Not only that, hiss = VINYL. (although I think that's what you're implying with "bring out the right frequencies").

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 1 April 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

so many records have been improved by remastering...i won't list them all cos you know who they are. suffice to say i can now listen to 'visions of johanna' with some form of enjoyment as a result.

de, Thursday, 1 April 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

1) People who claim not to care about sound quality re-purchase CDs they already own because they've been remastered.

That's a bit of a silly question. Some of us DO care about sound quality, and welcome the opportunity to replace poor-sounding CDs we originally bought 15 or even 20 years ago, when quality standards were much lower, not only WRT sound quality but also packaging, art, etc. In 1986, it didn't matter that the Velvets' Loaded sounded like crap - the mere fact that it existed was miracle enough, and so we jumped at the chance to buy it.

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 2 April 2004 08:18 (twenty-one years ago)

1) People who claim not to care about sound quality re-purchase CDs they already own because they've been remastered.

That's a bit of a silly question. Some of us DO care about sound quality, and welcome the opportunity to replace poor-sounding CDs we originally bought 15 or even 20 years ago, when quality standards were much lower, not only WRT sound quality but also packaging, art, etc. In 1986, it didn't matter that the Velvets' Loaded sounded like crap - the mere fact that it existed was miracle enough, and so we jumped at the chance to buy it. If we coulda seen 10 years in the future that Atlantic would release a brand-new, elaborate version of "Loaded"...well, you get my point.

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 2 April 2004 08:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I care about sound quality, but generally it would have to be: an extraordinarily good album to start with; an appallingly badly mastered original that I'm convinced can be dramatically improved on; extraordinarily cheap; and / or have something pretty bloody special in the way of bonus tracks before I'll be prepared to actually spend money re-purchasing something that I already own rather than spending it on something that I don't already own and just harboring a slightly wounded, resentful feeling about the reissue.

I've already been through this once when I finally had to concede defeat in my battle against CD's and had to start resisting the urge to repurchase albums I already owned on CD the first time round.

Of course there are always a few exceptions.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 2 April 2004 09:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Have the people who complain that music sounds crap through standard pc speakers (which it does) never tried listening through a half-decent set of headphones plugged into the speakers? The difference is huge.

slb, Friday, 2 April 2004 09:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not convinced the set of people who listen on late '80s boomboxes and don't give a fig for sound quality and the set of people who repurchase albums when they're remastered have all that much of an overlap. Extra material/restored versions can be the only incentive here.

The buy-each-iteration-of-a-classic-LP folks, in my experience, are borderline audiophiles. (But then I used to hang round in those dodgy corners of the web where such people gathered and this is a lot of what they talked about. It's a skewed experience.)

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 2 April 2004 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

OK I'll bite, xince I've been banging on about reissues a lot of late.

Most of the best reasons have been mentioned already. As it happens I have only recently started to buy CDs that I already own on vinyl - (a) I can afford to now, and (b) the technology has advanced enough that it's worth doing so. That said, it's generally the promise of bonus tracks of hard to find or previously unreleased stuff that tempts me to buy.

Jeff W (zebedee), Friday, 2 April 2004 10:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not too convinced about plugging headphones into PC speakers, the hiss and the slight but constant droney feedback gets in the way.

Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Friday, 2 April 2004 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

In regards to the original question, are you sure this is correct that 192kbs signifies mp3s ripped from remastered cd's?

I've downloaded songs at 192kbs that I'm almost positive are not available as remastered cds. Some even sound like mp3s transferred from vinyl - that sound damn good.

pheNAM (pheNAM), Friday, 2 April 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I meant that I've seen people get excited about 192kbs rips that happened to come from remastered CDs. What I was saying is that once you're talking about downloaded MP3s, who cares about the source.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 2 April 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

It really depends on the album.
In some cases, the remaster is really necessary. Many of the early
CD's were cynically produced without much concern for quality; some were
ripped directly from the vinyl, pops, clicks and all!
But in most cases, I agree that the constant wave of remasters and
"special editions" are rather silly. Do we really need a new version of
_Dark Side Of The Moon_ or _Aqualung_ every 2.5 years?
I guess they're worth it if you're a Japanese-original-gatefold-edition-
buying fanatic.

192k mp3s are, thankfully, starting to gain ground against the 128k standard.
But they still can't compete with uncompressed CD quality. Pink Floyd's
_Wish You Were Here_ really made me realize how limited MP3s are;
the 192k files clearly lacked the grand, spacious feel that I was so accustomed
to.

Of course, if you smoke enough weed none of these really matters.

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Friday, 9 April 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I dont tend to re-buy things i already own, but i do give priority to remasters in my purchase of older material. the sound quality is sometimes such an improvement as to make the music seem different. i love the remaster of Tin Drum, for instance, because it sounds so pristine, as if it was made recently. the packaging and extra tracks are also great.

jazz is probably the worst genre irt the constant re-releasing of old material, so i usually wait for something to be remastered before even considering purchasing it. i just dont like buying something and then seeing a (usually superior) new version of it within a few months. although i havent replaced older releases with new ones yet, i am tempted to replace some of my old blue notes with the RVG versions for the sound quality and also because older blue notes have the bonus tracks directly following original versions of the songs, instead of having them at the end, which can be annoying.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Friday, 9 April 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm generally glad about re-issues, as many recordings I love are stupidly expensive and subject to irreversible e-bay price freakouts, and I like the thought of them being available and affordable to non-wealthy people. I do get irritated with things that keep being issued in ever-expanding editions, though. Better sound quality I can do without if it sounds fine in an earlier edition, but extra music drives me up the wall. This happens a lot with film music, because the idea of what a "complete" edition is (as well as where all the tapes are!) is often so murky. Many of my film-music LPs and CDs have been superceded by longer CD editions I can't afford, and it bothers me that I didn't know to hold off when I first spent the money, 'cause I also never know what's going to become stupidly expensive again when it's suddenly not in print or receives the hype-treatment.

jazz odysseus, Friday, 9 April 2004 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I can imagine, though, how jazz could be the worst / best for this.

jazz odysseus, Friday, 9 April 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I only buy remasters if the original has serious flaws (Singles Going Steady), where the benefits can be heard on any stereo.

I bought the Illmatic 10th anny. CD because I forgot that I already owned the old one, and actually like the album a lot more now. The old one was a little muddy in comparison.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 9 April 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

'Do we really need a new version of
_Dark Side Of The Moon_ or _Aqualung_ every 2.5 years?'

Funniest question evah.

de, Friday, 9 April 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually like Theatre of Hate's "Westworld" less on the remastered CD than I used to on cassette. The production effects are so much more distinct on the CD, and it means I hear an instance as two or more recognizable sounds that have been superimposed onto each other, rather than as the singular, mysterious hybrid-sounds they were to me when I listened to it on headphones as a kid delivering newspapers. I can't go back!

jazz odysseus, Friday, 9 April 2004 18:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, 'so many' includes the rei$$uers and for that answer you've got a vulgar picture painted for you but the fans hate the song BUT THEY ARE WRONG.

Dare, Friday, 9 April 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

There are examples of far better sound quality that make it worth it for me to buy a record again. "Electric Ladyland" sure sounds better than it used to. On the other hand, I was listening to my old dB's LPs (the first two albums) the other day and comparing them with the remastered CD that came out on Collectors Choice a couple years ago, and I actually prefer the LPs. What I have a problem with is all the extraneous shit that gets tacked onto classic albums...the Byrds Legacy reissues can be annoying. Same thing with "Forever Changes." I would prefer to just have the complete record, or even simply two records on one CD, along with the relevant--relevant--B-sides and so forth. But people are such obsessives about all this, so you have to endure or skip over some Moog wankery that Jim McGuinn committed to tape...I mean it's fun to listen to Arthur Lee screwing around in the studio, or Brian Wilson, but I don't sit around worrying about such arcana at this point.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Saturday, 10 April 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...
to celebrate my 26th birthday i bit the bullet and got some records that i already own: 'soon over babaluma' and 'fear of music'. i don hope they're worth it!

a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

the talking heads remasters are fucking dualdisc and not worth it. In the US anyway. I think the UK has proper cds

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 25 August 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

Fuck dualdisc.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Friday, 25 August 2006 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

i *think* this is single-disc.

a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 25 August 2006 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

i think i should have got the dylan remasters now, but that's for another day.

a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 25 August 2006 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

the dylan remasters do sound really good. so do the rolling stones remasters. I can do ithout the last round of elvis costello reissues and adamantly refuse to buy anything past the ryko bowies, even though they allegedly sound better

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

adamantly refuse to buy anything past the ryko bowies

Ah good friend. I'm making an exception for the Aladdin Sane revamp since that has bonus cuts where the Ryko one did not.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:26 (nineteen years ago)

I think the concern with remasters is actually kind of a weird paternal thing. There is an album you love; the package it's reissued in pretends to be some kind of monument, the definitive complete set to tuck away into the archive. Lots of people seem to be interested in that process in the same way people are interested in their loved ones' funerals -- you want the memorial to be right. You're involved with this record now, and you want to see it preserved properly. (Especially if you're old and rooting for "the kids" to pick up on your old favorite.)

For other people it's possibly just that the reissue experience -- reading through new liners, going through bonus materials and videos, putting the remastered mix on your fancy stereo -- is an improved nostalgia experience (or just a different one) than pulling out your old dusty copy and listening to it the same way again. Or at least different enough to be worth $20.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

you want the memorial to be right

Why of course. Now please always mark every Cure reissue as 10/10.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 25 August 2006 16:02 (nineteen years ago)


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