Musicians playing "palindromes"

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I have read about musicians (such as wayne shorter) being able to play palindromes - the same note forward and then back. Could anyone point me in the direction of songs that contain an example of this?

Thankyou !

― Trilok Munoz, Tuesday, 6 April 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

same note forward and back = same note played twice in a row

Maybe you're referring to phrases, or a group of notes played forward, and then backward? (or maybe you're somehow referring to circular breathing, but I doubt it)

Of course, now I can't think of any.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Thelonius Monk's Epistrophy. The chords and melody for the first eight are reversed for the second eight (so it's not a perfect palindrome in the melody, but the phrases are reversed).

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Arto Lindsay's no wave band DNA did something like this, in that song "32123" (or whatever the numbers were) on their debut EP.

― chuck, Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Rather than just merely playing the same note twice in a row, wouldn't this also maybe imply an inversion of the attack/decay? But it's not as though that's extremely difficult or anything.

― Broheems (diamond), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

No, no. I think you are referring to the sequence, but i am talking about the actual note being blacked backwards in sucession to it being played forward e.g. a mirror

― Trilok Munoz, Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

erm...... Blacked = played !

― Trilok Munoz, Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm, can't really think of any examples of that either - like Broheems says, it wouldn't really be something that hard to do. If it was a vocal palindrome, that would be something. A whole song of backwards, mirror lyrics.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, so you do mean just playing the same twice. And, say, if there was a half-step bend up at the end of the note, playing it at the beginning?

x-post

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

This is exactly what was written (about Wayne Shorter) :

"On certain later Miles Davis albums, for instance, he produces a 'palindrome' by playing a phrase forwards and backwards to create a beautiful mirror-effect."

So, perhaps to refine my question, could someone tell me where specifically i can hear this taking place (preferably within one of the aforementioned MD albums, i guess).

― Trilok Munoz, Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Baby Gramps has a number of songs with palindrome lyrics. Otherwise, I bet you Eno's done some palindromic music.

― sexyDancer, Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, that's more what I was talking about, phrasing. I can't think of any solos offhand where he does that, but it's not at all uncommon. Just, say, playing C E F F# and then F# F E C with the same rhythm.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Weren't Sigur Rós supposed to have done something like this, on Ágætis Byrjun?

― Dare, Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way, this concept of playing with phrases like that isn't that uncommon. Bach would do the same type of thing in fugues, but get even more convoluted like playing a phrase, and then playing a version of the phrase upside down (as in, where the original went up and then down, the inversion would play the same intervals down and then up). Or he might play a phrase as a melody, and then double all the note lengths down an octave, and use it as a bassline for a new melody. Musicians = the world's finest nerds.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Osymyso's entire first album, "Welcome To The Palindrome".

Example titles: "God, A Red Nugget! A Fat Egg Under A Dog" and "Won't Lovers Revolt Now?"

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I really should read the post before replying to a thread. Yes.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i think iceburn collective did some of this on medativolutions.

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

bleeding brain grow by paul barman to thread

― autovac (autovac), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

milwaukee band ifihadahifi feat members reno loner, dr awkward, mr alarm, and yale delay, to thread, or something. www.ifihadahifi.net

― juiceboxxx (juiceboxxx), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Is this Juiceboxxx, comedy mc?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 20:11 (twenty-one years ago)

haha "comedy mc" yers

― juiceboxxx (juiceboxxx), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Red Nugget

Is this Ned's alter ego?

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

TS: palindrome vs reflection

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog!

― Sasha (sgh), Tuesday, 6 April 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

The Stone Roses - Waterfall/Don't Stop

― elvissinatra (elvissinatra), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

yea, it would have to be a phrase played backwards. you cant play a single note backwards except with like tape manipulation which would give you that sucking sound (john lennon, among others, exploited the shit out of this)

― tom cleveland (tom cleveland), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Greg Ginn ascends and descends like this a lot.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

This is really more of a side note, but the 11-minute Harry Smith film "Mirror Animations (Extended Version)" comments on the pallindrome tendencies in Thelonious Monk tunes by playing a music-video type animation of Monk's "Mysterioso" forward, then backward, then forward again.

― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog!

Thank you, I was trying to remember than palindrome all yesterday.

(Juiceboxxx, I'm good friends with Brian of the Gothsicles, heh)

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Schönberg to thread. His 12-note music used that strategy on several occasions, for instance in 'Pierrot Lunaire', je crois.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm still into the idea of playing an actual note backwards - isn't this the sort of thing Beefheart used to ask his bands to do?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 12:31 (twenty-one years ago)

If I remember correctly, the last song on the first Crimson Glory-album, Lost Reflection, is a palindrome. Right in the middle of the track the actual recording starts to play backwards. Then you hear that although the notes are played backwards, their position in the original melody is still the same.

― Roger in Mokum (Roger T), Wednesday, 7 April 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

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