Best feminist music of different genres

And I wouldn't call Mariah Carey a feminist by any stretch, but she's about as close as an R&B diva has come to a riot-grrl, with her hyper-femininity. That's the reason everyone hates her, too.

Like "Run For Your Life" and the song that goes "You take my self / you take my self control" - I like thet line that goes "I haven't got the will to try and fight..."

Bwahahahahahaaa

Grace Jones also

No-one meets my criteria for feminist musicians, but if they did, they'd probably pollute the environment or something anyway, I have to go

Am also a bit sad that some people here seem to have difficulties with taking this kind of question seriously. I think good music, even if it might sound a bit ridiculous, manages to deal with all aspects of our lives. Why should not gender be taken seriously as a theme in pop music. Without starting an argument about legitimizing feminism. I am so **** tired of doing that all the time.

yeah, and in any context! sometimes i get paranoid that my tendency to examine gender in most areas of my life is a kind of myopia, but i've come to terms with that because feminism is simply one of many ways in which i view the world, in the same way that marxism or apathy or whatever might function for someone else.

Are riot grrrls hyper feminine? I don't think so. Perhaps they are playing with hyper-femininity sometimes. (Perhaps that is what could make Mariah Carey interesting - she is so feminine the femininity seems absurd ---)

yeah, really. everyone should own a copy of penis envy. two copies even! Also see if you can find a copy of Flux Of Pink Indian's The Fucking Cunts Treat Us Like Pricks/The Fucking Pricks Treat Us Like Cunts and try to listen to the whole thing in one sitting.

My bitches my bitches that'll change the locks
My bitches my bitches that'll cut up your clothes
My bitches my bitches that'll steal your stash
My bitches are bold my bitches are cold
My bitches my bitches that'll smuggle your drugs
My bitches my bitches that'll hold you down
My bitches even when you out of town
My bitches is smooth my bitches is real
My bitches my bitches that take care of they kids
My bitches my bitches that you don't respect
My bitches my bitches that you always neglect
Yall niggas ain't real yall niggas ain't shit
My bitches my bitches let his ass go to jail
My bitches my bitches don't post none of his bail
My bitches my bitches teach him how that shit feel
Don't except his calls don't send him no mail
My bitches my bitches that'll fuck out your brain
My bitches my bitches that'll take the pain
My bitches my bitches that'll play the game
Ya'll niggas is weak ya'll niggas is lame
My bitches my bitches that'll stay in school
My bitches my bitches that can keep a job
My bitches my bitches that can raise the kids
My bitches are strong my bitches will live

For example, Bjork/Cyndi Lauper/Ari Upp/ other 'child of nature' semi-experimental performers: yes, there is a liberation in what they do, some departures from social mores, but why do they have to wear uncomfortable shoes? I have the same problem with eg the writer Colette

The Slits/Babes in Toyland/riot grrl/Courtney Love and others in the punk chronology - it's good that they are in touch with their anger and sexuality etc, but why do they have to wear uncomfortable shoes, and 'get their tits out' as reviewers of the period crudely put it about the Slits?

TLC/Salt'n'Peppa (sorry, I've forgotten the exact spelling)/Missy Elliot/others in the hip hop sorority - great music, but why do they have to wear uncomfortable shoes, and make-up, and not complain constantly about the version of women presented by hip hop?

Bessy Smith/... /Janis Joplin and others in the blues/country chronology, some brilliant and witty lyrics about the problems of being a woman, but again, why the shoes? Not to mention the cheesy airbrushed made up pictures, the lack of resistance across the body of the lyrics, etc.

So from my point of view, bands like The Breeders would be 'more feminist' in terms of appearance, but then there is the problem of the actual music. Music in the country and blues tradition might be the most satisfying sonically, but there is the problem of the overall lack of resistance. So I suppose what my problem boils down to is that only emancipated, university educated, brave women are likely to grasp the need to resist the superficial trappings of femininity, but these women aren't necessarily the most likely to make lively music, perhaps partly because the amount of time and energy required to educate and gird yourself 'against society' and posit your own values precludes a strict dedication to practising and playing music.

'Shoes' is just metonymy for all the ways in which society encourages women to compete against each other to be the most valued object rather than most powerful subject (in the sense of subject as actor and object as acted upon).

(Not that I think women should compete to be the most powerful subject either. Especially not as in the horrible formulation 'I use my sexual oppression to gain power'.)

My conclusion above was silly, - eg that only educated women see the need to abandon superficial femininity. Surely the cause of the problem is just that 'unfeminine' women can't get much media access.

But I oughtn't moralise, of course, I wear high heels and make-up and all that, I just wanted to present some ideals.

It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor
Or if you're smart or dumb
A woman's place in this old world
Is under some man's thumb
And if you're born a woman
You're born to be hurt
You're born to be stepped on, lied to, cheated on
And treated like dirt
Ah if you're born a woman
You're born to be hurt
A woman's lot is to give and give
And go on giving
A woman's got to love and lose
And go on living
Well I was born a woman
I didn't have no say
And when my man finally comes home
He makes me glad it happened that way
Because to be his woman
No price is too great to pay
Yes I was born a woman
I'm glad it happened that way
Oh I was born a woman

Critique or capitulation? Nick Lowe covered this song...

-  Why are concert intermissions limited to 20 minutes ?

A -  So you won't need to retrain the singers.

Q -  What do you call a girl that hangs around with musicians?

A -  A singer.

Q -  How do you know when there's a female vocalist at the door?

A -  She can't find the key and doesn't know when to come in.

Q -  How do you know that it's the lead singer knocking at your front door?

A -  You open the door and she still doesn't know when to come in.

Q -  How many female vocalists does it take to sing the song "Crazy"? (by Willie Nelson, made famous by Patsy Cline)

A -  All of them.

Q -  What's the first thing that a female singer does after she gets up in the morning?

A -  Puts on her clothes and goes home.

Q -  What's the first thing that a female singer does after she gets up in the morning?

A -  Looks for her instrument.

Q -  What does a girl band vocalist's mother say to her before she goes out?

A -  "If you are not in bed by midnight you have to come home".

Q -  What´s the difference between a female lead singer and a terrorist?

A -  You can negotiate with a terrorist.

Wha? Isn't a vital part of *any* opressed group's emancipation a pride in its historical acheivements, even if they don't own up completley to their current ideologies? I mean, context, context, context. I think that, even seeing things through the eyes of radical feminism, you can't really criticise *Bessie Smith* for succumbing to the pitfalls that you mentioned: her socio-cultural environment made it almost impossible for her not to, she didn't have the tools to do otherwise. What she *did* manage to do is astonishing if you take in consideration her time and place.

Ditto Tori Amos, her shit's just fierce, sometimes I think she goes a little too far in indicting men but she's almost always compelling nonetheless.

My girlfriend is the biggest feminist I've ever known, so pretty much if it passes muster with her then it must be good. She's a huge defender of Courtney Love, in spite of her self-destructive behavior/frequent toplessness, I do agree that her new album is pretty balls to the wall at least lyrically.

Best feminist song I've heard recently : Nellie McKay's "It's a Pose"

:)

Skinny Leg Blues - Geechie Wylie (cos she kills her boyfriend!!?)
Kitty Wells - Backstreet Affair (answer to masculine version, outlines hypocritical attitudes to women)
Boy, What Will You Do Then - Denise and Co. (off Girls in the Garage)
The Girl He Needs - a couple of versions
The Slits - Typical Girls
The Raincoats - Odyshape
Yoko Ono - Kiss Kiss Kiss
Perversion - The Trashwomen

That's not counting eg pop songs like 'Unpretty' or 'Born a Woman' that I like but sort of partly ironically, or songs like "Rock N Roll Nigger" that I don't enjoy etc

It was Valerie's Family (and then The Hogan Family) the show with Valerie Harper (Rhoda from Mary Tyler Moore) only she left and they made like she died and then Sandy Duncan played her sister-in-law and replaced her.

Re: Mariah. She's not particularly feminist. I said that. But her overwhelming femininity, I think, turns stomachs in exactly the same way as the baby doll dresses and the "Slut"-scrawled bellies of riot-grrlism. This is just to point out an unlikely parallel made even more unlikely by the politics of Mariah's music.

but why is women wearing heels (or adopting any other appearence traditionally regarded as feminine or sexy) inherently un-feminist?

I know plenty of women who like heels and sexy clothes, on themselves AND other women.

Being raised by two mommies, i was subjected to some pretty horrible 'feminist' music. i will still always love Ferron, though. And Chris Williamson for nostalgic reasons.

hmmm women's hairy armpits aren't actually smelly unless they don't wash em. when i was a teen - not all that long ago, i didn't know i had the choice! i thought it was something all women did! maybe thats because i wasn't very strong as a teenager and/or cos of the way i was brought up...

I have a suggestion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kut2xkhEPK4

Self-righteous, or Righteous, Dude?