Why is punk forever changing?

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Punk was a moment in the mid to late seventies that captured itself and rounded up a load of youthful excitement without too much cynicism.

Now anyone that spikes their hair is a punk.

Can the use of the word punk in musical circles still be valid?

― Sonicred, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

are you really punk if you spike your hair? One thing I sometimes wonder looking at you kids these days is, what does it take to be cool now? When I was a kid, you could just dye your hair, wear some ripped jeans or a biker jacket, and that pretty much did it. Nowadays even the dorkiest kids seem to have multiple piercings/tatoos/hair of all colors. So the real cool kids these days are probably wearing pink button down polo shits, tucked into their chinos, with ties and nice shoes, right?

― g, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Punk is changing because if it stayed in one place it would cease to be punk and become boring tired old crap. Instead we have Blink-182. Which is neither boring nor tired nor old nor crap. See? Everyone wins! Except for people who are stuck in a 20 year timewarp. (Boomers pt. II)

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

To quote David Berman:

"Punk Rock died when The first kid said 'Punk's not dead."

― hstencil, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Punk died when you stopped being able to call it new wave.

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Punk isn't forever changing, punk is mostly dead. I tell you, it's in its dying breaths. You cannot make me call Blink 182 punk. To be cool you need not dress like one; you must wear lots of plaid and glittery jellied accessories, whether you are a boy or a girl.

― Maria, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Who said that "anyone that spikes their hair is a punk"? That's a load of crap. Irritating pop floozie Pink spikes her hair, does that make her punk? Certainly not.

Punk was never solely about one's tonsorial or sartorial aesthetic.

As a going concern, I'd say it's UNdead....in that it soldiers on in a zombie-like fashion, but that its days of awareness and development are long gone.

― alex in nyc, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Pink going blonde is punk.

― Tom, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No. Pink going blond is new wave. Cf. inner sleve of Elvis Costello's Armed Forces.

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I liked some punk. there is nothing punk now. there is, and always has been, a lot of well packaged pop music, eg Blink 182. i like some (actually lots of) pop.

Any pop bands that are well-packaged with lots of corporate money that ever use the word punk will be the first against the wall come the revolution. bop bop, and indeed, bop.

― Alan at home, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't think punk really exists anymore. Actually, I do think the original punk spirit, or whatever you want to call it, is still around, but it doesn't automatically inhabit every dope who gets a mohawk. And it has very little to do with "punk," as still practiced by Rancid and Offspring and the like. Punk was supposed to be about inventing your own style, not copying a 20-year-old fashion. In that sense, modern punks are very conservative - more like the Knack than the Sex Pistols.

― Justyn Dillingham, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Punk was supposed to be about inventing your own style

The only punk I can think of these days is Hammell on Trial. On second thought, maybe he's a post-punk.

Punk is as much an era as it was a style and/or attitude. It's over.

― Dave225, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Punk was always about assimilation in that everyone who didn't fit into a scene, got into punk. Now it seems there are more people who don't fit into the scene than previously thought and punk has become PUNK, the new way to be! That's why everyone who spikes their hair is still punk. Except for the asians. That's the de facto hairstyle these days.

― JM, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I found the title of this thread a little ironic, because I'd be hard pressed to name a genre that changes LESS than punk. That Fat Wreck Chords shit is virtually identical to the Ramones.

― Mark, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My ex was Asian, had spiky hair, and was as punk as anyone I currently know.

But yeah ,if punk was about inventing your own style, which I'm certain it was, then I sure don't see much of it around.

― Sean, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

sean, would you be mad if I said that the first line of your post sounds like a belle and sebastien lyric? ;)

― fritz, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sean Sez: "But yeah ,if punk was about inventing your own style, which I'm certain it was..."

I sez: "Since when?"

― JM, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Have you ever noticed that the Mohawk is the stereotypical punk hairdu, but only three punk rockers in history had one...and two of them don't count? ( 1>Wendy O Williams mohawk wasn't her hair, it was her headdress... 2>The guy from Rancid only wears one because he knows its the stereotypical punk hairdu, and him being "Punk" and all, must, of course, has to have one. Lest someone think hes just a bandwagon jumper. )

― Lord Custos, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Joe Strummer had a mohawk, albeit at his "cut the crap" low point. so did annabella lwin from bow wow wow.

― fritz, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I had a mohawk (in 1984).

― Sean, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mohawks = The Exploited! Most of the gutter-punk cliches seem to come from The Exploited.

― Kris, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like how Lord Custos has hairdo spelled "hairdu" it's allusive.

― JM, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

hey...if punk is dead, what's post punk?

― cybele, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh, yeah. Your right. Annabella had a mohawkish kinda haircut. completely forgot about that. But then again, its only because Malcolm McClaren had a new pair of scissors and wanted to try 'em out. As for spelling it "Hairdu"; spelling it "hair doo" looks wrong. Doo is something you step in.

― Lord Custos, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one month passes...

im reading this and its making me sick. Punk is not dead, we have just lost sight of it. Punk is not just a style it was about the music! and thats how it should be now. U dont need a Mohawk to prove ur a punk, yeah theres posers but we need to look past that. Around here i know some great bands and they have more faith than anyone to me punk is not dead nor will it ever be

― hillary, Saturday, 8 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ok first off punk is supose to be different, not ever one being the same. but im a junior in hight school and i see a lot of so-called punks but thats a lot of bull shit. cuase these guys i know who clam to be punks and shit are just posers. this one kids hangs out with jocks and preps and shit, now thats stupid if you ask me . punks are not supose to be popular and now punk is so un-punk that the fucking preps want in on it. so i say i dont know any real punks well maybe on or two but thats it. for the rest of you , kiss my ass!

― bobby homes, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

WEll i take that back i know a lot of real punks. but the preps who try to kiss all the ass still suck!

― bobby homes, Monday, 17 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

WEll i take that back i know a lot of real punks. but the preps who try to kiss all the ass still suck balls

― bobby homes 4, Monday, 17 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

punk = me in 1977 deciding not to buy gary gilmore's eyes as a single even tho it's the gratest 7" of all time AND THAT'S IT

i nevah had a mohawk

― mark s, Tuesday, 18 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ok listen up all you cunts who think punks dead or it's just about your look or your attitude.

Punk should first be looked at as a type of music, like the exploited, the partisans, one way system etc.

Second, a punk's gotta have a belief system, you must be a real LIBERAL, and not just do it to seem like a rebel. If you don't have a true care for all MISREPRESENTED people, gays and minorities etc, then you aren't a punk

All punks should be politically aware, they should vote if they can. And in order for punks to have any big effect they need to become working class and unionized.

PS- the whole need to categorize urself as a punk is kinda shadey any way, ugh!

― Jonny Necro, Thursday, 20 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

There's this guy here at school who had dreadlocks and wore K-mart sweaters and a messenger bag slung over his shoulder. His face was unshaven. He started going with this girl that I quit a few months back, and seeing her with him, or him with her, made me want her back. He cut his hair and shaved his face, and now his head is too small for his body. He walks with his hands in his pockets and is a writing major. I call him "The Listener," because he listens to her, I suppose, but I'm quite sure he doesn't listen very hard.

I'll leave the reader to decide how that fits in with the last five, six, seven posts.

― JM, Thursday, 20 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ok first off punk is supose to be different

Right, just like all the other punks...

― Prude, Thursday, 20 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And in order for punks to have any big effect they need to become working class and unionized.

What happens when the crusties go on strike?

― Kris, Thursday, 20 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Punk is a lame id tag. The only cool bands seem to be the ones that people call punk who then flatout reject any tag besides rock n' roll. The ones who are all about punk are usually pretty crappy at this point. Self-centered and bratty backed by a sound that's been done to death. Although, the Bellrays did a split with the Streetwalkin' Cheetahs called "punk and soul"; really not much of an offense considering the Bellrays are far from what's lamely and loosely identified as punk. Still, there's new kids every day going through the teen phase that drinks punk for breakfast, so it's not fair that they should have to go back 20 years in order to have a punk phase (yeah, yeah, I know, "It's not a phase, old man, this is my life and I'm gonna be punk 'til I die!")

― Nude Spock, Thursday, 20 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i will be punk till i die, but this is of zero consequence to anyone else (xcept possibly all the ppl i am choosing not to fuck)

― mark s, Thursday, 20 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

punk is not a coherent musical style, punk is DIY. blink 182 clearly do not fit the bill. if you want punk, don't look on the charts. so yeah, punk music is forever changing because it was never a musical style.

― di, Thursday, 20 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Phuck "punk" it has become like unto a big plug ov hard poo that is stuck & prevents one from goinfg regularly. It is about time it was SHAT OUT W/XTREME PREJUDICE so that we can get on w/s.th. else. Thee idea ov "punk" still being relevant in 2002 is fux!|\|g sad. The Adverts r0x0r, mind. er....

― Norman Phay, Thursday, 20 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Norman is right. There's a good word for "DIY". It's "DIY" and doesn't involve all the inescapable baggage of "punk". Obviously some people still get something - community, solidarity, thrills? - out of calling themselves a "punk". If you're one of them, mind telling us what it is?

(Not you Mark S particularly though if this weedy post were to goad you into spilling your ununifiable field theory of punk I wouldn't complain.)

― Tom, Thursday, 20 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

hah kris,if a crust punk ever became working class and part of a union he'd create a paradox in the space time continueum and the world would implode.

― jonnynecro, Friday, 21 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

idunno, i think calling a photographer a punk because of their beliefs and life style then the word gets too vague and stereotypical. punk has musical connotations. there are alot of similarities between the guitar, bass technique, vocal style, subject matter, and even composition of bands like for example vice squad and the expelled, therefore the music itself is important. the people who like a certain type of music often have the same likes and dislikes

― jonny necro, Friday, 21 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

>>There's a good word for "DIY". It's "DIY" and doesn't involve all the inescapable baggage of "punk". <<

just as i am not content to let the surrendured wives and the camille paglias have claim over the word "feminist", i am not content to leave the term "punk" to the good charlottes of the world. that doesn't mean that i call myslef a punk, cos i don't, but i would respect somebody who was intent on reclaiming the word for the purposes it was originally intended ... DIY. the baggage of the term "punk" is NOT inescapable, cos meanings are never fixed blah blah blah (i hate getting all wanky and postmodern like this).

― di, Sunday, 23 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

>>Phuck "punk" it has become like unto a big plug ov hard poo that is stuck & prevents one from goinfg regularly. It is about time it was SHAT OUT W/XTREME PREJUDICE so that we can get on w/s.th. else. Thee idea ov "punk" still being relevant in 2002 is fux!|\|g sad. The Adverts r0x0r, mind. er.... <<<

and this kind of statement exemplifies perfectly what daria gray wrote about men and their claims to objectivity regarding music. what gives YOU the right to decide what is relevant to whom at ANY given time?

― di, Wednesday, 26 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

that kind of narrowmindedness is nothing but a hindrance to the develpment of music.

― di, Wednesday, 26 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I wonder whan I mever made any claim to my opinions re music being "objective". Don't project your worldview re "men" and their "opinions" on *me* Di, because it is an *utter* dead end in this instance. What gives me the right to pontificate about "relevance"? Nothing more or less than anyone else who contributes to these boards. And, I am one of the least narrowminded music fans you will encounter. It was punk that originally got me into music. Now, the whole way "punk" is presented & marketed, over her at least is such that it presents a barrier - a "hindrance to the development of music" as you say. A nice way of preventing any DIY musician from getting ANY coverage of their music in my experience. Try putting up with Steve Lamacq clogging up 4 evenings a week on your national radio station, with his pitifully closed little worldview of music, and then see if I still seem so narrowminded. Gah.

― Norman Phay, Wednesday, 26 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

well i apologise, norman, but what you wrote initially just came off as sounding quite dogmatic. thank you for clarifying your views. i know what you mean about the way so-called punk is marketed and all that stuff, but i was offended by your statement about punk in no way having relevance anymore, because it was only a couple of years ago that i had just about given up on music completely and it was my introduction to diy punk that made me fall in love with music again. so what i'm saying is it did and still does have relevance for me. i know its kind of hypocritical for me to have a go at someone else about sweeping statements, but by way of excuse i'm not really familiar with your postings on ILM cos i never come here, so to a reader unfamiliar with your postings, thats how it sounded. my apologies again.

― di, Thursday, 27 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

here is why i think punk is still relevant in 2002.

firstly, the reasons i have already mentioned, to reclaim the word "punk" from the tripe that masquerades iteslf as punk presently.

furthermore, because punk snaps at the heels of noise. I see DIY punk as an alternative to noise. Don't get me wrong, i am not trying to erect a dichotomy between the two genres, because i am aware of the overlap between them. In fact, the punk bands i most enjoy incorporate plenty of atonality and improvisation in order to innovate. But noise, especially that of the Port Chalmers scene here in Dunedin, can too easily descend into uber-intellectualism, exclusivity, elitism and downright wankery. Someones gotta react to that, and if I may be so immodest, i take pride in the fact that i have been and will continue to work towards that.

― di, Thursday, 27 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

why is punk forever sucking? except devo.

― ethan, Thursday, 27 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I almost feel bad as I laughed in some suburban goths face. I mean she was pretty and oddly attractive but her uniform was silly coming and being shown in a suburb.
Please note I have nothing against Goths per say but the look was just so funny being next to me i line at HMV.

― Mr Noodles, Friday, 28 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

why do people care about there classification as a punk. i mean seriously, what is a punk? i thought that i was a punk for a half a year just b/c i wore a studded bracelet, hated rap and pop, and

― cat, Saturday, 9 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

why do people care about there classification as a punk. i mean seriously, what is a punk? i thought that i was a punk for a half a year just b/c i wore a studded bracelet, hated rap and pop, and listened to "punk" music. it recently dawned on me that it doesnt matter what i am as long as i am me. i wear clothes that make me feel comfortable, listen to music that i think is beautiful ((and yes it still is alot of "punk")) and that no matter what i act like my self and try to be different, not punk...b/c that is just too oevr rated.

― cat, Saturday, 9 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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