In Accordance with Conventional Wisdom

Illustrations of the above:

Loveless was the Album of the Nineties. (Although Slowdive was overall better than MBV, IMHO). The Queen Is Dead was the best Smiths album. Station to Station through Scary Monsters (and especially the Berlin trilogy) were, hands down, Bowie's finest moments. Sonic Youth was a three-album band (and those albums were Evol, Sister, and Daydream Nation). The Clash were the best punk band of all time, the best epitome of that particular genre. Uncle Meat and Hot Rats were FZ's best albums. Rubber Soul was the best Beatles album. Stax was better than Motown.

Now, your input in the same vein!

Well, the Beatles Were the best band ever of course. The Kinks rock out, Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" is an incredible album, Cut Chemist is the best DJ in the world, the Pixies revolutionized rock, Miles Davis is obviously great and Stevie Wonder really is a genius.

I like Travis' "The Man Who" album. So shoot me.

Conventional wisdom I agree with: The Stones best work came in the 70's, The Replacements were the best unheralded band of the 80's, "Time Out Of Mind" was Dylan's "comeback" album, "Appetite for Destruction" is probably the best hard rock album of the 80's (and certainly of GNR's career), Metallica's best work is "Kill 'Em All thru "The Black Album", Superchunk pretty much defined American indie- rock in the 90's, Tom Waits' early work (first 4 albums) is his best stuff etc etc.

Thank God punk rock came along and lay waste to all that crappy 70s FM Rock dinosaur bullshit. "Waterloo Sunset" is the saddest, most beautiful song ever written. "Baby One More Time" is a great single. Serge Gainsbourg is a genius.

This is much harder than the "quite fucking contrary" thread.

Also, Phil Spector is the best pop producer ever and Kraftwerk are perfect.

David Crosby is fat.

Lee Perry was the greatest reggae producer ever. Alex Chilton is an underappreciated genius, though he's fallen off in the last decade or so. _Standing on a Beach_ is the definitive Cure album. _Introspective_ is the best Pet Shop Boys album. Pete Townshend is a phenomenal guitarist. Ella Fitzgerald's _Songbook_ series is the definitive tour of American popular song of its time. Nick Drake's recorded output is sad, sweet and devastatingly moving. It's all been downhill for Prince since _Sign 'O' The Times_. Traditional jazz gets no better than John Coltrane. Adrian Sherwood peaked with _Tackhead Tape Time_. Hip-hop peaked around '90-'91.

What's really interesting about this thread is seeing what people think conventional wisdom *is* (Rubber Soul? Introspective??).

Revolver is the best Beatles album. His mid-60s work is Dylan's best, followed by Blood On The Tracks, and he is better than all his imitators. Other bands/people/records that deserve their rep: Phil Spector, Never Mind The Bollocks, Pulp, Joy Division, Abba, Kraftwerk...god this is difficult, I keep thinking of records I really like, like Marquee Moon, and thinking hold on, it's not quite *that* good.

Oh, the Kylie single is one of the best pop records of the year. I tried to swim against the tide on that one but it forced me back into line.

The fact that Kylie's record stands out as one of the best pop records of the year (I agree, it is) is compelling evidence that chart-pop is at a VERY low-ebb. It's OK, but it doesn't really have a hook, and there doesn't seem to be anything of interest happening elsewhere in the track. Kylie's a decent pop-star, granted, but fluff really.

Nevermind is one of the best album's of the 90's.
Hounds of love is the best Kate Bush LP.
Kulashaker were krap.
Chic were the best disco act.
Psychocandy is one of the best debut's ever.
Live at Leeds is one of the best live albums evere.

Roxy with Eno = better than Roxy sans Eno.

Detroit Techno really deserves all the praise it gets. 'A Love Surpreme' really is a total classic.

A.R. Kane really are tuneless shite. :)

ah well, you could go on & on.

Smells like teen spirit = best 90s number 1 single

The Stone Roses = best debut album

Nick Drake = great choonz, great guitar player, rubbish molesworth lyrics

Woody Allen = i liked your early, funny, films

Dr C = BLASPHEMER! Quick, stone the bastard! ;-)

The Beatles are the best band ever.

Louis Armstrong is the most important 20th century musician of any genre.

"The Star Spangled Banner" is probably not the best anthem America could have.

1956, 1967, 1977, 1984 and 1991 were golden years for music. 1975 was a really shit year for music. The post-Elvis pre-Beatle rock & roll era is sorely underrated.

Napster was a good thing.

A Hard Days Night is great & Help! stinks. Techniques pioneered by Jamaican producers changed the way music is made around the world. Stax is better than Motown. The Strokes & The White Stripes are over- rated, but talented. Rock & Roll is no longer the dominant musical form of youth culture. Lending money to a musician is rarely wise.

Hooray for Dr C.

Hendrix: greatest guitar god.

McGuinn: fount of grate guitar tradition (but is this really conventional?)

Tom E is right re. Beatles & Dylan.

Nebraska is grate stripped-down Boss LP.

Loveless is awesome.

Queen Is Dead = major statement of 1980s.

I'll stick with the poppy stuff:

"I want it that way" is a truly great pop song Dave Matthews Band can most certainly play their instruments 1991 was the year punk broke But Blink182 aint so bad and Earlier stuff is almost always better

I don't know about "techniques developed by Jamaican producers have changed music around the world (or whatever, I can't remember the exact wording)." Seems to me that a lot of techno/electro/rave folks seem to often claim ownership and inventor privileges. Where would rave be if it wasn't for sound system dances?

re: influence of reggae producers, are you disagreeing with the statement or the perception that this idea is "in accordance with conventional wisdom"?

disagreeing with the statement as "conventional wisdom." It's conventional wisdom for me and I'm sure a number of people obsessed with music, but I don't think that it's a "conventional" thought for most folks.

I had a friend who just went to a electronic music/culture forum and he couldn't believe the lack of awareness of Jamaican music and its influence. He told me that he felt like consistently pointing out how many of the crazily innovative recording techniques and dance music culture in general were happening in Jamaica over 20 years ago.

Can't tell you how happy I was to see Lee Perry in the new Vanity Fair music issue though...

I see your point, I guess it's tempting to interpret "conventional wisdom" as "what *I* think conventional wisdom ought to be" in this thread.

hat-act country is not country and is an abomination.
Phil Collins is an evil toadstool dwarf.
Eric Clapton is soulless hack.
Many '60s Rock and Roll Dead Icons are vastly overrated, and installed as false gods from a vast Baby Boomer conspiracy.
The Strokes are overrated but pretty good (i had to amen that)
MTV without music videos is not good. Not necessarily bad, but not good.
The Grunge Revolution was not a revolution
RIAA is Evil
Quiet is NOT the New Loud
Midgets in bands do not improve the quality of the music

Adults who claim to like chart pop don't REALLY like it!

oh really?

I will quite happily admit my love of Destiny's Child, Alicia Keyes, Jay-Z, Britney's latest, *NSYNC, Eden's Crush, Sugar Jones, Jelleestone, Kardinal Offishall, Shaggy (oh how I love Shaggy), Janet Jackson, Lil' Bow Wow, Nelly Furtado, Jill Scott, Madonna, and those afore mentioned Backstreet Boys.

This doesn't mean that I'm going to trade in my Mice Parade albums for a copy of Jacko's "Invincible" or anything, it just means that I enjoy a little fluff and can appreciate a really fine pop tune. Speaking of, "Ol Time" by Kardinal Offishal is fan-fucking-tastic.

Oh...and you gotta love those top ten countdowns.

what's the kylie single you guys ar talking about? I don't listen to the radio or watcht MTV... Is it in any comercials or anything? I think Daft Punk's "One More Time" is obviosuly the best pop single of the year.

Conventional wisdom I can agree with: VU, Big Star, etc. And you can;t win if you can run the ball

oh yeah here's one I agree with: "They were better before they signed to a major label"...actually I don;t agree with that one

oh well

1991 is the year punk broke

where in the world is this conventional wisdom? Not trying to be clever, it just caught me off-guard.

Daft Punk's "One More Time" is perhaps the best pop single of all time - but it came out in the UK (where most of the Kylie fans live) last year.

Alan, it's a reference to the Sonic Youth video, curiously entitled 1991: The Year Punk Broke.

I prefer the earlier stuff.

"1991 was the year punk broke"

The reason why I made this comment was in reference to:

a) The concert film featuring Nirvana, the Ramones, Dinosaur Jr, Sonic Youth, Gumball, and Babes in Toyland -- Narrated by Mr. Thurston Moore himself.

b) More importantly, the fact that Nevermind was released in 1991 and the conventional wisdom about that album is that it heralded in the era of "alternative" music. Majors were culling as much talent as possible from the indies and so-called punk and indie rock was thrust into the mainstream, replacing all of the Deborah Gibsons of the pop world. I suppose that 1991 as a year punk broke would be more relevant to North America than the UK.

I also like the fact that "broke" can be taken 2 ways:

"broke" to mean "make it big"

"broke" to mean broken, wrecked, mussed up, in need of fixing.

right-ho. had no idea that punk was used to denote such stuff. really i didn't.

sonic youth -- a band for a post on the "contrary" thread for me. saw them live once mid 90s - yeuch.