When did music cease being furniture?

Nuance, sirs

Nuance, sirs? You're being this heatful.

A friend of mine once designed an armchair with an integral subwoofer, but I guess that's not what you're getting at.

Damn you writers and your wordplay.

I'm not sure I understand the question - is this about our own experiences, realizing that Big Bands make musica and are Real, or some greater concern involving the fabric of popular music?

I' not sure if this is exactly what you're talking about, but something changed after I saw the video for Springsteen's "Atlantic City." Music got a little bit heavier for me with that song. Maybe that's when I became aware that it could be more than just the pleasure of hearing stuff on the radio. It was something to be studied, perhaps. This might be different from what you're talking about.

I think my three turning points were the video for the Human League's "Fascination" (Wow, music can be thrilling), and, with greater nuance, Kwame's first record (Wow, music can be very different from other music) and R.E.M.'s Document (Wow, there is music being made right now that seems completely relevant and vital to my life). Ages 5, 12, and 13, I'm guessing.

Wow, fascinating facts gleaned from AMG: Kwame Holland grew up hanging out with Lionel Hampton and Stevie Wonder? Could he somehow be related to the Hollands of Holland / Dozier / Holland?

I wuz always serious about music from a young age. At five I wanted to be elvis. At seven Chuck Berry and at eight Paul Robeson.

Oh, right...well, Sean Cassidy was my first rock star focus, he rooled, mang. When I was seven or so. But I first started really taking plunges thanks to top 40 AM radio in 1981 -- which, not coincedentally, was when I got my own personal radio. Listened to that thing way into the night. :-)

Nitsuh dwells in the Land of Polkadot?

When I was going through a classic rock phase around 12 or so, I stumbled upon a Jimi Hendrix documentary on TV. That's when I first realized that rock musicians could be important -- actual historical figures.

I thought Mama Cass had written "Make Your Own Kind of Music" especially for me. To heal the pain of a hippy wannabe 8 year old. I think later that year I was arguing the merits of the Carpenters vs. the Archies with my best friend. We felt we'd really matured, our taste was far superior to the other 8 year olds. Now we were into the totally grown up sound of Karen and Richard!

Metallica. Yep.

It happened very early for me. I went to the record store when I was about 10 years old, to buy my first album. I wanted to buy "Venus & Mars" by the Wings because I heard "Listen to What the Man Said" - a good pop gem for a ten year old. My mother said, "I don't like the Wings. Buy a Beatles album instead." She didn't know what the hell she was talking about (and still doesn't) when it comes to music. I'd be surprised if she even knew a song by the Wings. She was more of a Glenn/Mitch Miller gal. (i.e. - music is still furniture to her.)

Well, I bought a Beatles album, 'Revolver' because it had 'Eleanor Rigby' on it. After about two days, "Tomorrow Never Knows" was my favorite song. That's when I started listening more intently to what was hapening in a song.

Pearl Jam. _Ten_. No doubt. Would it be better for my image to credit this "change" to, say, Husker Du or Soul Coughing or Tsunami? Yeah, sure, but it was all about Eddie and "Even Flow".

Sorry if my question vagued out, but y'all are pretty much on top of what I meant. Thanks.

Nice article in the new voice, by the way. Though I'm sure the New Order contingent here will raise a bit of a fuss.

Maybe this wasn't the exact moment when music stopped being just "atmosphere," but it was certainly the moment when I realized that there was a whole universe of music that was just waiting to be explored...

I asked my mom for a Depeche Mode album for Christmas when I was 12. My ma, being the gem that she is, went out to the local record store and asked for anything by my favourite euro-trash synth gods. I guess the folks at the record store thought that it'd be pretty fun to convince her to buy something as far away for Depeche Mode as you can possibly get. Hence, they told her that if you like Depeche Mode, you're sure to like the Dead Milkmen (Big Lizard In My Backyard--to be specific).

I ended up listening to "Right Wing Pigeons" on Christmas morning and never turned back. Suffice it to say, it was the first and last music related item my mother ever gave me.

I don't think it's ever been atmosphere or furniture for me. I will say that the first times it seemed to open up into a huge world were in fifth grade, when I decided that I could stand pop radio and thus was not restricted completely to classical music, and in ninth grade, when I became fascinated with my friend's Nine Inch Nails CD.

thanks, Sterling

i wanna take this moment to commend raposa for a very brave thing he just did.

fuck, i could lie too, but what's the point. it was fuckin nirvana. everyone happy now?

id hate to be post punk but i swear to fucking god it was the minutemen double nickles on the dime that got me into music when i was 13.

PJ Harvey, Rid of Me. I was fifteen & sort of a basket case, so it was just the thing. And I've got to mention Nine Inch Nails, honestly, and that knowing they're prob about as uncool as it's possible to be - at least I give them credit for economy, now it seems to take three guitarists, two drummers, two bass players, a singer, a rapper, and a DJ to tap into the teenage angst.
But I'm still a sucker for a good pop song, & I think that goes back to dance class in the 80s: Prince, Madonna, Michael Jackson. Was obsessed w/Thriller in grade school.

The Art of Noise's _Into Battle_, and specifically "Beat Box," rapidly followed by the "Close (to the Edit)"/"Close-Up" right-left combo. I wrote about it for Feed a while back, but it seems to be down.

public enemy.

Jess, I am happier than a lumberjack at a truckstop diner.

Well, I was always aware of music being more than furniture, mainly thanks to my parents and their tendancy to play, at loud-ish volume, full albums by two artist/bands in particular, who had their own defined styles: Leonard Cohen (Slow-ish tempo, sparse arrangement, talking about Really Serious Things in a quirky but intellectual manner, cover art with just a photo or two and tracklisting) and erm, The Moody Blues circa 1968-1971 (Uptempo, poppy, lavish production values, tracks all mixed together a la concept album, gatefold sleeves with intricate art and lyrics) !!!!

And if I wanted a break from those two extremes, I'd watch TOTP or listen to Radio Clyde (Like Radio 2 with Scottish accents) listen to whatever was mainstream at the time, by which time (mid 70s) I was already developing opinions about bands. I remember the first band I ever really disliked was Liverpool Express aka LEX, (Remember them?!?? No!?!?? Lucky you!!!)!!!! I also remember also being really bored stiff with "Bohemian Rapsody" staying at number 1 in the Uk charts for what seemed like an ice-age, although I don't remember Abba kicking them off the top spot. I do however remember Abba kicking Manhattan Transfer off the top spot about a year or so later, and I even remember having a bet with my mum about whether M's "Pop Musik", which had been at number 2 for a couple of weeks behind Art Garfunkels "Bright Eyes", would finally reach number 1. I was on the side of "Bright Eyes", whilst my mum thought "Pop Musik" was a better record. I said I liked "Pop Musik" better, but more people appear to like "Bright Eyes". I won the bet- and got an ice cream cone or something... :) So I suppose summer 1978, when I had worked out the difference between a good record and a popular record, was the time music stopped being "furniture" to me...

Old Fart!!!!!

Hang, I've say "worked out the difference". I really mean more "Made the distinction between...", in that records can be good or popular, but also both or neither. (In the matter of "Bright Eyes" vs "Pop Music" IMHO both records were good and undeniably popular, but "Pop Musik" was better and "Bright Eyes" more popular.)

do the hustle.

I forgot abt PARENTS. "We shall not be moved" prob earliest experience with music that was not sonic wallpaper - tho could now be couch potato's theme song - "just like a tree that's standin by the wa-ater..." Pass me the chips while you're up!

At 11 I had a friend called Chris, who was the only kid I knew who went and bought records. I would go to his house and we would play all his records while drinking Soda Stream and eating crisps, and we would try to agree on which were the best and which weren't. They were all top 40 pop records from 1983-1985. We liked Madonna and Frankie and King, we were ambivalent about Wham! because we were jealous of their looks, we didn't like Band Aid at all though Chris had bought it because he felt he should. I wouldn't buy records ever myself. I would buy Smash Hits though and lend it to Chris, and listen to the charts every week. Then I'd make my own charts based on what I thought SHOULD be in the top 40.

Basically this is what I do now, still. I think music stopped being furniture for me, realy, the second I became aware of a chart and started feeling that it mattered to me what was doing well on it. So earlier in that case, 1980, when I wanted Abba's "Lay All Your Love On Me" to do well.

tom got into music before my fetus formed working ears.

First time was Genesis "Nursery Crime" around 1976/77. Before I had been listening to bands like The Sweet, ELO, Bachman Turner Overdrive, Abba, Four Seasons, Slade, Kiss, Golden Earring etc. All the rubbish of the seventies (definitely the worst decade in music). "Nursery Crime" was different as it had an atmosphere around it, the lyrics were weird and I loved the melancholic mood.

In 1979 (I was sixteen) I bought the Nick Drake box set "Fruit Tree" after having read an enthusiastic review in a German weekly (non- musical) paper. "Five Leaves Left" and especially "Pink Moon" changed my conception of music. Suddenly it became like a resort for me. A place where I could go to flee from the stupid and mundane everyday life. In the beginning I almost thought that I was the only person in the world listening to this. Then I listened to it with my best friend. And the knowledge of these songs became a part of our friendship. For many years I could not listen to Nick Drake but recently I restarted and I must say these songs are still the best I have ever heard in pop music (together with Joni Mitchell's who I discovered six years later).

I have to correct what I said about the seventies. My two favourite songwriters released their prime stuff in that decade so it cannot be so bad. But the stuff in the charts was soooo awful. Nowadays it is not much better but at least I am used to it.

The seventies charts = crap? Uh?

What about : GLAM, PUNK, DISCO, POST-PUNK/NEW WAVE, ABBA, still some good stuff from MOTOWN, PHILLY....ETC ETC

Nick Drake's years of obscurity = thoroughly deserved.

Like a lot of people my age it was Metal Guru at No.1 (backed up by Virginia Plain, Crazy Horses and Mama Weer All Crazee Now) that showed me that pop matters. And unlike anybody else on ILM, probably, it was Nilsson's 'Without You' that showed me that pop can also move you to tears. I was 7.

After that things trundled on happily enough, Tom Brown presenting the Top 20 every Sunday evening, disco, Grease, something called punk ("no they're not punk, they're new wave" - my sister; "oh" - me) but punks fought teds so we don't get involved with them (or teds). Then, on a school trip to France the coach driver has but one tape - an Elton John hits tape, notably featuring Rocket Man and Someone Saved My Life Tonight - that is played repeatedly, and I discover you can actually go and buy albums, you don't have to just tape the Top40. From there, a short step to Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd and oblivion.

Dr. C - I always hated GLAM, too bloody false for a simple and honest man like me.
I always wanted to love PUNK but I could not really. Except the Buzzcocks but I do not think they charted a lot.
DISCO was the worst music genre in the 70s. John Travolta in "Grease", Boney M. singing "Rasputin" (that is the music I had my first dancing lesson to). Utter shite. Travolta only became cool later in the 90s in "Pulp Fiction". In his disco years he was the biggest wanker around.
POST-PUNK/NEW WAVE is the genre I like most of the ones you cite. Nevertheless somehow I associate it more with the early eighties. And Joy Division my favourite here was not exactly a chart topper.
ABBA is the worst band of the seventies. Just listen to "Fernando" and you know what I mean. They were everywhere in my youth. They almost destroyed it. I do not get it why they suddenly have become a cult act. I think I do not have to understand. Like Oasis which I always hated and suddenly everyone hates them.
I never liked MOTOWN, Soul, Funk and all its derivatives. I hope hating those styles (as well as rap and hip-hop) does not make me a racist.
I do not even know what PHILLY is exactly. It has something to do with Philadelphia not with Phil Spector hasn't it?

Blimey, Alex you're a tough fellow to please!

GLAM - 'too bloody false'. Not sure I follow this - falser than...what? Nick Drake? How do you know? Were Slade pretending to be something they weren't? I doubt it. Marc Bolan? Likewise. Not that it would bother me either way - pretence, deceit even, is fine as long as good music results.

PUNK - the Buzzcocks charted in the UK with 4 or 5 singles.

DISCO - D.I.S.C.O. I love disco. Donna Summer, Chic, Heatwave, Bee Gees... Boney M had their moments - some groovin' basslines early doors, but dud later on. I can lose myself in say, "Funkytown" or "Lost In Music" in a way that feels like a total out-of-body experience. (Like Ned would have while enjoying Slowdive ;). Some of the production is marvellous, never bettered - I think in the main because they didn't clutter the grooves too much - just concentrated on getting the essentials right.

ABBA - I'm sorry to hear they almost destroyed your youth. I bet they didn't mean to.

You said **I never liked MOTOWN, Soul, Funk and all its derivatives. I hope hating those styles (as well as rap and hip-hop) does not make me a racist**.

I don't think so, but it's sad that you dismiss such a huge chunk of music in one fell swoop. Hate is a strong word to use - what is it that make you 'hate' it?

Well, I think I've definitely found the person on ILM whose taste differs the most from mine. Hi, Alex!

Dr.C we are hijacking the thread here. Hijacking nowadays can result in wars as we all know.
But coming back to the subject of the thread the 70s mainstream music which is quite well represented by the genres you cited represents furniture for me and not more. It did not touch me. It was just noodling for me. On the other hand there was so much interesting and good stuff there which does not fit into your categories. Roxy Music for example. That was probably the best band of the 70s. But this says a lot about the 70s as RM are not on the same level as Velvet Underground or the Beatles from the 60s. Would you classify RM under Glam? Ferry had a glam attitude but the essence of their music is not glam I think. Glam is superficial for me. It was just a marketing trick to make people buy more records. T. Rex had its moments but overall it was not a great band.
Maybe my problem is that I find that most of the music you talk about has not aged well. I always like new sounds. Sounds which surprise me. And in the 70s I can hardly find any new surprising sounds as I grew up in them listening to all this MOR crap. I used to like Donna Summer but I was 13 years old and that was ok. But her music is unlistenable to me now. And even two other genres of music deeply rooted in the 70s are not my cup of tea. I used to love art rock especially the early Genesis but nowadays I find that music overproduced and kitschy. Same with King Crimson. Even a prog rock band closer to Jazz like Soft Machine (esp. their improvisations) sounds so dated nowadays. Electronic music like Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream never did it for me. "Autobahn" was fun when I listened first to it but then it became very boring. I like organic music. No drum machines and samples. Music with lyrics and melodies that touch me (Nick Drake, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young in moderation, VU, Joy Division, The Smiths, Laurie Anderson etc.). There is enough out there which does not belong to your genres.
Hi Arthur glad to meet you.

I heard you're gay

I think we prefer to use the terms "fruity" or "disco" 'round these parts, Mr. Pissing in a River.

Someone told me you're gay as well

I don't know where to begin, Alex. I am hardly a raging experimentalist compared to some of ILM's posters, but your narrow range makes me feel like I'm surfing a wave of avant-garde.

**No drum machines and samples** - Not even a teeny-weeny sample? WHY?

**Glam is superficial for me. It was just a marketing trick to make people buy more records** - Get away! Seriously, Alex, even Neil Young uses marketing tricks to sell more records. And Joni Mitchell does.

Don't get the idea that I categorize music rigidly into genre types - I felt i needed some broad categories to repond to your earlier message. So Roxy, glam/pop/rock, prog at times even - who cares? Good band though, I agree.

You sidestepped an explanation of your hatred of soul, funk, hip-hop etc I'd be interested to hear why you hate it. I'd say lots of it is 'organic' (also no samples/drum machines in the 70's varieties), so what's so wrong?

Daly: I imagine you're a bigot.

What're you, queer or somethin'? All I'm sayin is what I heard and you get all bent out of shape. I ain't heard nothin' yet on you, but I bet I will hear that you're gay real soon.

Dr.C - I must admit my posts in this thread may seem a little too categorical. A small sample can be ok as well as a computer drummer in places. But in general I prefer acoustic music. A good example of non-acoustic music I like is Beck. "Odelay" was so fresh and innovative when it came out. But I still preferred "Mutations". Electronically amplified guitars are ok nevertheless. I am not as backward.

It is very difficult for me to explain why I hate soul, funk and rap. Of the "black" music genres I only love the blues I guess. I think it is the source of rock music. Somehow originally there were two types of "black" music. The blues and the gospel. The profane and the religious music. The simple and the refined. I never liked the gospel choirs. I found them annoying. Soul is a further development of gospel. The singers have often falsetto voices. I hate that as well as those female background choirs. Kitsch. And funk to me seems like a soul which stresses the dynamical musical part instead of the voices. Too big band like for me.

Rap has no melody at all. It is very monotonous. The rapper does not sing he talks fast. Very often in an aggressive way.
When that music started in the eighties it really annoyed me because I did not hear it as music. More as noise. Now I got used to it and from time to time I can hear a rap song which is ok.

Alex, I'm not sure I can go any further with this - repeated posts just seem to reveal more rules that I can't fathom (**The singers have often falsetto voices. I hate that as well as those female background choirs**), contradictions and unexplained 'hates'. I guess you like what you like and that's it. It's up to you. Why not give something else a try, though?

I guess you like what you like and that's it.
Thank you Dr.C. You have your taste I have mine. To explain why I hate some music is a waste of time. Every new argument can be questioned. I do not like soul because of the falsetto voices. Why don't I like the falsetto voices etc. Maybe I love to hate certain kinds of music. You are right hate is strong but I say hate when I want to say "I actively dislike" because that is what it is. Rap annoys me and I am not indifferent to that style. I hate it. Yes.

I can understand why people dont like rap/modernsoul/hip-hop. But the whole genre, nope - sorry mister, I guess you are uneducated in the art of diving for pearls! Sure I think stuff like "Destinys Child" is harmful to the brain, and that Cypress Hill raps like a farmyard animal. But you are listening to the wrong radio station if such music make you agressive! You are too old. But there is great things in the genre even for old farts. In the rap category you have "Disposable Heroes of Hiphopracy" with great lyrics and no swearing. And if you cant stand modernsoul and hip-hop, there is always jazz... and crossover genres like bands such as "Red Snapper", "Røyksopp". If you like music I urge you to look at labels such as "Bungalow", "Matador", "Warp"- And I want to conclude that modern soul is made for kids - yes kids - and if you do like modern soul try listening to the real stuff like; Funcadelic, Bootsy’s Rubber Band, Horny Horns, Parliament - They dont "kid" around.

John

wow robin, you had me going there for a second. good one.

Is G**r H****o back?

MY FIRST POST!!

id hate to be post punk but i swear to fucking god it was the minutemen double nickles on the dime that got me into music when i was 13.
-- cory sklar (coryskla...), October 31st, 2001 5:00 PM.

What an odd question -- I can remember intently listening to music as far back as I can remember anything at all. Then again, I guess there WAS a brief period in mid to late elementary school that I just kinda listened to the WAVA countdown and whatever was popular at school.

Listening to a tape dub of "Holiday in Cambodia" on school field trip. 1994?

"u can't touch this" = there's more than just children's music and music my parents like and it's made by pop stars whose quickie bios you can buy in school book orders as a convenient two-in-one package with a similar bio of a guy from florida whose heavily gelled coif was apparently supposed to be amazing

word to your mother

This is defining or life changing thought from music? I've had tons but the first time I understood the lyrics of Shadows and Light by Joni Mitchell, was mind blowing. I was raised by fundamental Christians and it was the beginning of my understanding of the world in terms other than black and white...

The perils of benefactors, The blessings of parasites.

Thanks Joni.

the weird thing is that it totally wasn't nirvana at all! i dunno why i even said that. it was probably something like weird al (the first music that was mine, something only i listened to that wasn't shared k-tel LP comps or the radio), the beastie boys (hey, music can piss off my parents), GNR (hey, music can be scary and seductive at the same time...like george michael), public enemy (hey music can be Important), and then nirvana (mostly because i was 13 and therefore primed for it in a way that i was too young to wholeheartedly embrace either GNR or PE at 10 or 11). oddly, i think listening to a dead kennedys tape (give me convenience) on a french class trip to the art musuem (!) in 1992 might be the real moment though because it was whole buncha things at once (the first music i loved that wasn't part of a shared cultural thing with my peers, the first music i had to be evangelical about, the first music that i realized a lot of people didnt WANT to hear despite my evangelism, the first music that i had to struggle with the notion of whether it was good or bad, better or worse that this music was a minority interest).