What is the Most overrated/underrated album of the 60s?

Oh, special bonus question:

What is the most underrated non-Rock/rock-Pop/non-R&B album of the 60s?

I offer no explanation, but I put my underrated / unknown / who the hell? vote behind _The United States of America_.

Damn you Popshots, you stole my bloody answer... Umm, let me think...

How about The White Noise?

I'm not sure if I'd count USA anymore- admittedly it's not known in a Huge Pop Consciousness way, but I imagine the vast majority of people on the boards have not just heard _of_ it but actually heard it too...

Oh, and Special Overrated Obvious Answer: Everything by The Beatles.

I don't care anymore.

I picked up The White Noise after Jan from Mouse on Mars told me he opened his Lithops DJ sets w/ "Love Without Sound," and it is indeed way ahead of its time. That said, I don't actually enjoy listening to the record all that much. At this point it's more something to be admired than enjoyed for me, though that could change.

I don't understand the appeal The Incredible String Band AT ALL, so I'll offer them as overpraised.

Overrated pop: Her Wallpaper Reverie. Underrated: The Three Way. Overrated rock: Pink Floyd. Underrated rock: Brinsley Schwarz.

Most overrated artist: Aretha Franklin. Alright, she had a grate voice & her songs were loverly. But shut up about her already.

Most overrated rock LP: Trout Mask Replica. It pains me to say it, because I love Beefheart - but more people praise it than have probably heard it.

Most overrated Soul album: What's Going On - Marvin Gaye. (or was that 70s?) Always rated higher than anything by James Brown or Otis Redding, Sly Stone, Al Green, Stevie Wonder...

Most Underrated Rock artist: Travis Wammack. That Scratchy Guitar from Memphis.

More underrated / obscure selections, please? What's this White Noise? What about the West Coast Experimental Pop Art Band people? Name more bands whose released are OOP so I can go completely bonkers trying to (half-heartedly) find them.

Over: Love, Forever Changes. It's good, but I don't quite get the "greatest album of all time" hype it gets in some circles.

Under: I really, really LOVE The Move. Particularly Message from the Country. In the US, not many people know who they are (The Move tends to only get mentioned as a footnote to ELO) and, from what I understand, in the UK Roy Wood is kind of a joke, but I love all The Move records. They had a charming "try anything" eccentricity and more than their share of memorable tunes.

Underrated: The Grass Roots.

White Noise was a psychedeleic space-pop deal from the UK. According to the liner notes, the songs were pieced together from innumerable tape splices & original recording sources were heavily processed with analog synth technology. A bit loungey & Esquival-like in some places, but with a more electronic feel. My reference points for this sort of thing are few (haven't heard Silver Apples, etc)

Also, Delia Derbyshire was in The White Noise. I wouldn't really have said loungey at all, it's very weird and sometimes a bit scary (listen to Black Mass: Electric Storm In Hell and tell me that's loungey).

In terms of comparison to the Silver Apples, yeah, I can see that, but the Silver Apples were more hippy-dippy in a big peace & love spaceship kind of way. There is a little bit of hippydom apparent in some of The White Noise, but it's more the freaked out & fried side.

I love both bands, though...

I too don't find "Forever Changes" to be that earth-shattering... however, Aretha's 60's work on Atlantic is some of the greatest music ever recorded.

Also, I used to dote on "After Bathing at Baxter's"... then again, I used to smoke a lot of pot.

Under: Lothar and the Hand People, The Fugs, The Godz, the Stereo Shoestrings, Esquivel and the lot

Strongly disagree w/Dave 225 abt Aretha Franklin. There's loads of great stuff on her 60s Atlantic albs that hasn't been done to death and you can finally get 'em all cheap on Rhino CD reissues. 'Aretha Arrives', for example, is totally solid from start to finish and none of it is over-familiar - you haven't lived till you've heard her just ROAR through '96 Tears'! Compared to the amount of coverage given to say Tori bleedin' Amos on ILM, there isn't ENOUGH blah abt Aretha. I'm not saying she's BETTER than yr favourite shiny new R+B diva, just that the gd stuff is timeless and you can always have BOTH!

And doesn't 'Trout Mask Replica' get almost EXACTLY the amount of attention it deserves (ie a fair bit amongst the tiny minority of music fools like us lot who give a toss)?

Good call on Travis Wammack tho' - is he totally 60s? I only have a couple of things by him (one of 'em on Toop's 'Guitars from Mars' comp) but wld like to hear more. Have seen one of those fine Bear Box sets devoted to Wammack, but as with all their products, it was well out of my price league. Great name too!

West Coast Experimental Pop Art Band were sort've in the same bag as The Byrds/Moby Grape/J. Airplane - jangly post-Dylan psych pop with Buffalo Springfield/G. Dead 'freak out' trimmings. Edsel put out a gd vinyl 'Best Of' ten years or more ago, gd because it wisely favoured their 'pop' side ('Transparent Day' is real proto-indie stuff.) See also: Boettcher and Usher's Sagittarius (v. heavy on the Beach Boys sugary orch-pop tip) and The Millennium; The Silver Apples, who beat Momus to the electronic-folk punch by some twenty odd years (but are they old news these days?); etc etc.

Just to clarify my thoughts on Aretha & the Trout...

I certainly don't want to diminish the greatness of either one. But I would like to hear about someone/something else occasionally.

Funny you should mention the current "Divas" (gawd, how I've grown to despise that word.) These Divas are the worthless sacks of no-talent crap that keep talking about Aretha Franklin being "The Original Diva." Again - I have nothing against her. But it seems like no one knows Billie Holiday. Even Ronnie Spector and Martha Reeves seem to be totally ignored anymore.

As for Trout Mask - While it was groundbreaking, I would rather listen to 'Doc at the Radar Station' or 'Lick My Decals Off, Baby'. I could put the Velvets in the same category: Bands that everyone cites as influential, even though they just recently discovered their watershed works. Again - no fault of the artists.

BTW - there is a Wammack compilation - German pressing. I'll try to dig up the label & cat.no. Email me if you're interested.

This is funny (to me.) I just ran across it:

"This was at a time when the focus in R&B recording was shifting from Stax in Memphis to Rick Hall's FAME studios in Muscle Shoals. Atlantic began doing all their recording there, and when the world heard the results everybody else tried to get on the schedule. A large part of the Muscle Shoals legend is due to Wammack, who played guitar on a lot of the sessions, including those for Aretha Franklin. "

eddie hinton is another underrated guitarist from that scene - basically the steve cropper figure of muscle shoals, played on some stax too

I prefer "Lick My Decals" to "Trout Mask". And I lurve Ronnie Spector.

Actually, emil.y's answer might not be that far off. Sure, the post- Rubber Soul stuff is lauded from here to there, back up around, and through, but what about the music they made BEFORE passing the dutchie?

So overrated: Moby Grape Underrated (I think-maybe things are changing?)-the Bee Gees, the Shocking Blue

I would nominate Spirit's first four albums as thee most under-rated. Theyb are beautiful west coast/jazz/rock/pop mix ups, and sound fantastic to this day. Sony reissued them on CD a couple ov years ago, w/good extra trax, and they are very cheap. Worth a punt? Go for "Spirit" first IMO<

x0x0

Shocking Blue is the band that did "I'm Your Venus," right? What else do they have that's worthwhile? I've always assumed they were one hit wonders, said hit being catchy and all but not really noteworthy in an annals-of-rock, type way.

all of the west coast pop art experimental records have been reissued on cd in the us and uk. 'a child's guide to good and evil'(which of course was reissued after i found it after spending eternity trying to find a copy) is the essential record. but part I and part II have some shining pop moments. they are one of my favorites because they wrote something as pleasant as 'transparent day' and as bizarre as 'suppose they give a war and no one comes' and that makes me smile. martin phillipps turned me on to them in an interview in kahoutek and the cowsills too. cowsills most underrated. 'forever changes' is a drag.

Shocking Blue are also the originators of a one "Love Buzz".

Hi Nickn, my neighbor. I'm in the Highland Park/Mt. Washington area, just down the 110 . So-- Shocking Blue had loads of acid pop classics, a bit like Steppenwolf with a girl singer. Well, not as gnarly. Also similar to the Carrie Nations from Beyond the Valley of the Dolls. Or a more pop, less experimental Jefferson Airplane. Do you remember the cover of "Baby It's You" by the Smith? Well, you get the idea, I hope. Their buxom lead singer, Mariska Veres, was a very passionate, bluesy belter. Other terrific songs: "Long and Lonesome Road", "Mighty Joe", "Send Me a Postcard", "Inkwell", Out of Sight Out of Mind", "Hot Sand", "Sally Was a Good Old Girl". They were part of the Invasion of the Dutch One Hit Wonders of 1970, along with the Tee Set ("Ma Belle Amie") and the George Baker Selection ("Little Green Bag"). The song "Love Buzz" that Brian mentioned was one of their more psychedlic numbers and was covered by Nirvana. And Neko Case was apparently going for a Mariska Veres sound on the New Pornographers record. There are a few Shocking Blue compilations around, maybe Poo Bah carries one of them?

Overrated: Anything by the Band. I've tried and tried and tried (believe me, I really have) but I find every single song of theirs without exception to be slightly less interesting than wallpaper.

Anything by the Doors. A mediocre one hit wonder with DEEP, DARK, IMPORTANT pretentions inflated into a classic group by generation after generation of enthralled teenagers who fancy themselves to be 'above' mere pop despite the fact that they sounded like a draggier version of Question Mark and the Mysterians with a ridiculous singer.

The Velvet Underground And Nico. Now, this is an album I absolutely love. But I have to say it's been overrated for reasons that don't seem to have much to do with the actual music. Compared to Are You Experienced (released the same year) what's so innovative about this?

Underrated: The Small Faces, the original Britpoppers. Dylan's John Wesley Harding is usually overlooked. A Hard Day's Night is the most underrated Beatles album. Actually, considering no self-respecting critic would even consider praising it nowadays, I think SGT PEPPER is a little underrated.

White Noise = CLASSIC. What about the Nihilist Spasm Band?

well now i'm in my 60's i tend to think the most sorely underrated album that didn't get the attention it deserved was Harry Pussy's "ride a dove"

underrated: commitment, by bob darin [previously known as bobby darin, easy-listenin', mack-the-knife-singin' "popular entertainer"]. difficult to find, but worth it; dylan-esque stories, big funky basslines, that sort of thing. overrated: anything by the doors, because jim morrison was just a flaky sixth-form bedroom poet.

Underrated: Kevin Ayers - "Joy of a Toy". Overrated: Skip Spence - "Oar".