Oh fuck...

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/05/06/disc.rot.ap/index.html

Dan Koster was unpacking some of his more than 2,000 CDs after a move when he noticed something strange. Some of the discs, which he always took good care of, wouldn't play properly.

Koster, a Web and graphic designer for Queens University of Charlotte, North Carolina, took one that was skipping pretty badly and held it up to the light.

"I was kind of shocked to see a constellation of pinpricks, little points where the light was coming through the aluminum layer," he says.

His collection was suffering from "CD rot," a gradual deterioration of the data-carrying layer. It's not known for sure how common the blight is, but it's just one of a number of reasons that optical discs, including DVDs, may be a lot less long-lived than first thought.

"We were all told that CDs were well-nigh indestructible when they were introduced in the mid '80s," Koster says. "Companies used that in part to justify the higher price of CDs as well."

He went through his collection and found that 15 percent to 20 percent of the discs, most of which were produced in the '80s, were "rotted" to some extent.

The rotting can be due to poor manufacturing, according to Jerry Hartke, who runs Media Sciences Inc., a Marlborough, Massachusetts, laboratory that tests CDs.

The aluminum layer that reflects the light of the player's laser is separated from the CD label by a thin layer of lacquer. If the manufacturer applied the lacquer improperly, air can penetrate to oxidize the aluminum, eating it up much like iron rusts in air.

But in Hartke's view, it's more common that discs are rendered unreadable by poor handling by the owner.

"If people treat these discs rather harshly, or stack them, or allow them to rub against each other, this very fragile protective layer can be disturbed, allowing the atmosphere to interact with that aluminum," he says.

Part of the problem is that most people believe that it's the clear underside of the CD that is fragile, when in fact it's the side with the label. Scratches on the underside have to be fairly deep to cause skipping, while scratches on the top can easily penetrate to the aluminum layer. Even the pressure of a pen on the label side can dent the aluminum, rendering the CD unreadable.

Koster has taken to copying his CDs on his computer to extend the life of the recordings. Unfortunately, it's not easy to figure out how long those recordable CDs will work.

Fred Byers, an information technology specialist at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, has looked at writeable CDs on behalf of government agencies, including the Library of Congress, that need to know how long their discs will last.

Manufacturers cite lifespans up to 100 years, but without a standardized test, it's very hard to evaluate their claims, Byers says. The worst part is that manufacturers frequently change the materials and manufacturing methods without notifying users.

"When you go to a store and buy a DVD-R, and this goes for CD-R as well, you really don't know what you're getting," he says. "If you buy a particular brand of disc, and then get the same disc and brand six months later, it can be very different."

This renders the frequently heard advice to buy name-brand discs for maximum longevity fairly moot, he says.

DVDs are a bit tougher than CDs in the sense that the data layer (or layers -- some discs have two) is sandwiched in the middle of the disc between two layers of plastic. But this structure causes problems of its own, especially in early DVDs. The glue that holds the layers together can lose its grip, making the disc unreadable at least in parts.

Users that bend a DVD to remove it from a hard-gripping case are practically begging for this problem, because flexing the disc puts strain on the glue.

Rewriteable CDs and DVDs, as opposed to write-once discs, should not be used for long-term storage because they contain a heat-sensitive layer that decays much faster than the metal layers of other discs.

For maximum longevity, discs should be stored vertically and only be handled by the edges. Don't stick labels on them, and in the case of write-once CDs, don't write on them with anything but soft water-based or alcohol-based markers.

Also, like wine, discs should be stored in a cool, dry place. Koster's friend Mark Irons, of Corvallis, Ore., stored his CD collection in a cabin heated by a wood-burning stove. The temperature would range between 40 degrees and 70 degrees in the space of a few hours. Now, the data layer of some of his CDs looks as if it's being eaten from the outside.

Irons is still pretty happy with CD technology, since it beats vinyl LPs and tape for longevity. Now that he's moved his discs to an apartment with a more stable temperature, he's noticed that the decay has slowed.

"I'm hoping they'll hold out till that next medium gets popular, and everyone gets to buy everything over again," he says.

Andrew (enneff), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

"I was kind of shocked to see a constellation of pinpricks, little points where the light was coming through the aluminum layer," he says.

I've known about and seen that in discs ever since 1988. Nothing new.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't buy discs made before 1990 basically. Gotchya.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

"Part of the problem is that most people believe that it's the clear underside of the CD that is fragile, when in fact it's the side with the label. Scratches on the underside have to be fairly deep to cause skipping, while scratches on the top can easily penetrate to the aluminum layer. Even the pressure of a pen on the label side can dent the aluminum, rendering the CD unreadable."

Eep.

Sansai, Friday, 7 May 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah that's the only new thing from this entire article. Everything else is common knowledge.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex, have you started marking up the edges of your discs with green markers? I need to get onto that.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

What?!?!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh man, you never heard about that back in the late eighties? It was this ridiculous rumor, it was great. Hold on and I'll dig up more info.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes TELL!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha! I knew either Straight Dope or Snopes would come through...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

haha, i remember that Ned!

jed_ (jed), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

go fuck yourself, Ned.

Joseph Larkin (Joseph Larkin), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I assume Joseph invested a lot of money in green markers and now weeps over all the lost time spent.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Joseph Larkin, President Of The Society Of Digital Audio Improvement Through Ink Based Utensils

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

http://jctcuzins.com/cem/d/dotsonb/CD%20footstone.jpg

jazz odysseus (jazz odysseus), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

or the SODAITIBU... (x post)

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

haha i did the green marker thing!

15-20%?! poor son of a bitch. the only discs i have with any rotting are both PDO-pressings of Pulp albums, and a compilation on Elefant

the 'surface' 'noise' (electricsound), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

SODAITIBU? Sounds like a Japanese drink.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, apparently the marker thing DOES help when trying to rip "copyright protected" CDs in computers... so don't throw away those green markets yet!

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

go fuck yourself, Ned.
-- Joseph Larkin (lheartameric...), May 7th, 2004.

HAHAHAHA wtf?!?!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I wrote the address to return a Hyperion label CD that was supposed to be from a problematic batch (experimental glue) on a piece of paper inside the CD case in case I ever needed it, but thankfully I haven't yet. Apparently, they would replace the CDs if they rotted. I don't know with what, if the album goes out of print, but it's some comfort.

jazz odysseus (jazz odysseus), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex, Larkin's a regular troll goof.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

(Stence: got your message.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Irons is still pretty happy with CD technology, since it beats vinyl LPs and tape for longevity.
No. Vinyl, with proper care, lasts for decades. However, it can damage quite easily, and many people don't care for it properly, hence the bad reputation for longevity that vinyl has.
CD's have only been "in the field" for 20 years or so (vinyl much longer), and as mentioned above, CD's from the 80's have been known to degrade (not to mention that they sound shitty anyway due to poor mastering).
Newer CD's will likely fare better, but I have never heard of a lifetime test of *any* digital storage medium that exceeded 14-17 years. Of course, these are accelerated lifetime tests, which aren't always accurate measures of a medium's true lifetime. So the gist of it is, there is no hard evidence that CD's should last longer than two decades. Compare this with true, "in the field" lifetimes of vinyl (several decades) and magnetic tape (~ 30 years).

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 7 May 2004 01:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i would imagine a properly stored, unplayed vinyl record would have an extremely long lifetime. the format still shits me though

the 'surface' 'noise' (electricsound), Friday, 7 May 2004 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

no one will be allowed to own music in about two decades from now anyway. The entire industry will be a jukebox model pay-per-listen thing, so the whole disucssion of the longevity of media is moot, since any form of media hording will be outlawed.</paranoid conspiracy theorist>

donut bitch (donut), Friday, 7 May 2004 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasn't there that massive craze about 10 years ago for putting CDs in the freezer? Didn't they do scientific studies on it, and proved it made a huge difference to the sound quality / longevity?

How so? Sounds like Bad Science.

Huey (Huey), Friday, 7 May 2004 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Sounds like another job for snopes.com to me.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 7 May 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't they do scientific studies on it, and proved it made a huge difference to the sound quality / longevity?

No. I remember reading of a series of blind listening tests involving frozen and not-frozen CDs which concluded with no discernable difference between them.

Andrew (enneff), Friday, 7 May 2004 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex, Larkin's a regular troll goof.

This is the same guy who was posting as others last week. That's not the real Joseph's e-mail address, and that same guy has a vendetta against him.

This thread is a regular walk down memory lane for goofy CD related tomfoolery, but if you ever get a disc that no longer works, a fun thing to do is stick it in the microwave for five seconds. You get a little electrical storm. It's fascinating. (Obviously do this at your own risk).

Vic Funk, Friday, 7 May 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, apparently the marker thing DOES help when trying to rip "copyright protected" CDs in computers... so don't throw away those green markets yet!
-- donut bitch (do...), May 7th, 2004 7:38 PM.

True, but it should be black or probably a darker color than green...

wetmink (wetmink), Friday, 7 May 2004 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...
"I bought a Killing Joke CD, took it home, and eagerly got ready to listen to it. The CD was difficult to get out of its case though, as the holder in the centre was extremely tight. Eventually the CD sprung loose but out of my grasp, and bounced off my CD player leaving it scratched and completely unusable due to "jumping" tracks. And I thought 15 quid was paying for a durable alternative to vinyl...
Chris, West Yorkshire"

Rock Bastard, Wednesday, 4 August 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah that came from that other thread How Are Your Compact Discs Bearing Up After All These Years? BBC Online Report. which linked to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3940669.stm

Rock Bastard, Wednesday, 4 August 2004 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

throw it into the fire

xpost

kephm, Wednesday, 4 August 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.