Second wave of "post-rock" mix

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Assuming bands like Talk Talk and Bark Psychosis were first wave, I want a list compiled of the bands that came in their wake.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 03:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Um why?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

don't ask silly questions alex. he's told you to do it so do it!

― mullygrubber (gaz), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 03:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Because I was listening to Tortoise for the first time in a long time and realized it's not so bad.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 03:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Besides, I shouldn't need reasons.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 03:53 (twenty-two years ago)

David Cross

― jubal harshaw (jube), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

u r all fagorts!!

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 04:01 (twenty-two years ago)

tHE fOR cARNATION

― mullygrubber (gaz), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

ukiyo-e

― the 'surface' 'noise' (electricsound), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Placebo.

― baldmolko, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

A Silver Mt. Zion

― Ian Johnson (orion), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Him
Ui

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:10 (twenty-two years ago)

To Rococo Rot.

Sepultura (Occasionally).

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Blur

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:25 (twenty-two years ago)

F R I D G E
R
I
D
G
E

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 11:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Mugwump.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 11:27 (twenty-two years ago)

post-rock after 1995 was general a poor idea.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

naw. 97 at least.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i still like tnt i guess. did dots and loops come out in 97? that was the shark jump for me.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 11:39 (twenty-two years ago)

HOOD.

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

did dots and loops come out in 97?

september 23, 1997. ha. it's official.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

the day the music died.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I the only person who really likes "Standards" by Tortoise? I don't get why people always slag it off.

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont think i've ever heard it, to be honest.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

when i think of "post-rock" tortoise is not the first thing to spring to mind, anyway.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i really like standards. it's loud.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I did a lot of my revising for finals to Standards.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

tortoise is THE study/writing music.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't listen to "post-rock" I guess, I just happen to like Tortoise a lot.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

jordan i think you might like bark psychosis actually.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

jordan that's cause you are a drummer. i saw tortoise on the current tour and john herndon seriously blew my mind away. he just keeps getting better and better.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

If you like drumming and Tortoise check out Amelia by Long Fin Killie, some serious fucking drumming going on there. It's not really post rock either.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Interesting, I will try to check both of them out. Which Bark Psychosis is the one to start with, Hex?

jordan that's cause you are a drummer. i saw tortoise on the current tour and john herndon seriously blew my mind away. he just keeps getting better and better.

I like pretty melodies too! But yeah, the drummers are great. I keep missing them when they're in town, and I have a conflicting gig next month as well. I'd really love to see how they divide up the parts between Herndon and McEntire.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

when i think of "post-rock" tortoise is not the first thing to spring to mind, anyway.
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), May 12th, 2004.

Who is?

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

With Bark Psychosis just start with whatever you can get your hands on!

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

when i think of post-rock i think of:

disco inferno
seefeel
bark psychosis
insides
(early) stereolab
(early) techno animal
(maybe even ar kane)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Disco Inferno, Bark Psychosis and Mogwai, for different reasons.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I always though Seefeel were a bit aimless. But I only heard a few songs.

Which band do you think did the least with the genre? Sea and Cake? When I heard Godspeed, I was all post-rocked out for a while.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

come on.. no chicago post-rock? please.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

i like the sea and cake a lot, forever, but i would never call them post-rock.

when it became orchestral math-rock or lite-electronica samba it was all over for me.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Thats exactly how I would describe Sea and Cake -- orchestral math-rock. And I like them.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i would call sea and cake lite samba. where is the orchestra?

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess its in how they play the rock.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Once, I saw the Sea and Cake live at a place called St. Andrew's Hall, directly below which is another venue called The Shelter, which has a lot of hip hop and dance shows (The Shelter is where the rap battle in 8 mile took place), and when the drummer's drum kick broke, they used the pulsating beat coming from downstairs which was shaking the floor, and played guitar over it. It was really cool.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Oui is exactly lite-electronica samba. On the rare occasions when I'm in that mood, say on a summer afternoon when I have nothing to do, it might be a toss-up between that and Getz/Gilberto.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

No Chicago postrock for me because I'm British. I didn't hear Tortoise until Standards.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

How exactly is S&C post-rock? Wher's the aimless doodling?
TnT is such a great study album

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Strongo, add Papa Sprain, Moonshake and Laika to that list and I'm right with you... Tortoise are more like, uh, noodle-core.

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

christian kleine - probably fourth or fifth 'wave'

― myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

god i forgot moonshake. i feel so dirty.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

...and divine? Not their best album.

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, I like Tortoise partly because they DON'T noodle. Oh, what a skewed perspective I have.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

DJED is a standard of post-rock, and i don't consider it to be 20 minutes of noodling.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

For me it's the Directions In Music album and the first Ariel M effort, pleasant, unnoffensive, kind-of watery sounding guitar instrumentals.

― mzui, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought Sea and Cake were Bossa, not Samba? Am I mixing up my riddims?

They are lovely tho.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

papa m live from a shark cage is great

― robin (robin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

bossa, samba, SMOOTH JAZZ, it's all the same to me

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

It's sort of a fine line when you're not talking about batucada groups, etc., but bossa is basically a slowed down version of samba. The claves and rhythms are pretty much the same, it's a feel thing.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

boom tap boom boom tap boom boom tap boom boom tap

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Smooooooooth Jazz

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/images/events/jazzawards/gallery_cullum.jpg

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Bossa is the smooth jazz it's okay to like.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, I like Tortoise partly because they DON'T noodle

Yeah, for me this was always one of the virtues of a lot of these post-rock bands (which, being from Chicago, I tend to think of as fairly Chicago-centric [or maybe Louisville-centric]) -- it's jazzy but without needless noodling. Everything seems very structured.

This thread is very, very good:

Class, etc. pt. 4 - Did post-rock "kill" indie? (Also, did it realign the "rhythmic impulse" towards an alternative to funk-based rhythms?)

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

would cerebus shoal, tarentel, sonna, and everything else on temporary residence be third wave? I like all of this stuff of course because I'm predictable. I don't like tortoise much after tnt. millions and the remix version of millions are still my favorites.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

this is how i've understood it.

Can, Cluster, Neu!, Miles, Eno, Fripp/KC, VU, Riley, Reich, Perry, Cage, Feldman, Satie, etc = proto-"post-rock."

direct influence on:

pre-"post-rock"
Talk Talk, Dif Juz, Durutti Column, AR Kane, Public Enemy, MBV, Colourbox, Cocteau Twins, Sonic Youth, Swans

from whence sprang the 1st wave of technologically enhanced "post-rock" proper:
* Bark Psychosis
* Insides
* Disco Inferno
* Moonshake/Laika
* No-Man
* Techno Animal
* The Young Gods
* Seefeel
* Mouse on Mars
* Stereolab
* Tortoise

every one of which spawned a litter of second-wavers, such as:
* Hood, Yellow6, State River Widening, Fridge, Dylan Group, Aerial M, Double Nelson, Carmine, Silvania, Casino vs. Japan, Charles Atlas, Flowchart, Piano Magic, Radiohead, Frontier, The Freed Unit, Bovine Over Sussex W., Füxa, Genf, Kriedler, Rroselicoeur, Him, Icebreaker (Intl), Kiln, Ultrasound, Tone Rec, Windy & Carl, Tarantel, Bathyscaphe, the Constellation bands, etc...

- since splintered into innumerable factions/fractions.
term "post-rock" pretty much irrelevant since circa Slowdive's Pygmalion (itself a shameless Hex clone. the cannibalism had begun. rot and decay were soon to follow).

― echoinggrove (echoinggrove), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

self-edit: move Young Gods to "pre" classification.

― echoinggrove (echoinggrove), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

well thanks for the overview echoing, this thread has turned out to be interesting which is interesting given its humble beginings.

anyway, I didn't realize moonshake quite fit in the post-rock schema until they became laika. i just bought their first album, but i havent listened to it yet.

also i listenined to some young gods the other day and thought it sounded corny.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I found out the other day that my friends' post-rock band (whose record will be very good, judging from what I've heard) will be distributed by one of the least post-rock labels I can possibly think of. I laughed heartily, in fact. Perhaps it will be better than just being another Thrill Jockey or Hefty or whatever band.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i've learned that the more you write, the more people are going to disagree with.

i think with some of those bands you are trying to push square pegs into round holes.

casino vs japan post rock??

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

CvsJP's first album is firmly in the post-"post-rock" mold. it's like Labradford remixed by Richie Hawtin. just not as good.

― echoinggrove (echoinggrove), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

>also i listenined to some young gods the other day and thought it >sounded corny.

a bit dramatic, but consider that they got their awesome guitar crunch without actual guitars. very important step en route to the sampling savvy of, say, Disco Inferno.

― echoinggrove (echoinggrove), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

rock post rock

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

>i think with some of those bands you are trying to push square pegs into round holes.

how so? i believe you can draw direct lines between the first wave and the bands i see as following in its wake. ASCII not ideal for the task. tried to align them within the lists, but gave up.

with which bands do you take issue?

― echoinggrove (echoinggrove), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

like i said casino vs. japan. radiohead, the michigan space rock stuff.

however it's all genre naysaying, it's irrelevant. your critique is mostly on point.

i was mostly trying to say: the more you list, the more you are putting up for debate.

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

When is Lil Jon going to make his post-rock album?

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

DeRogatis will dismiss it as "crunk lite."

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

millions now crunking will never die

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I really don't think the Sea and Cake or Tortoise have much to do with samba. The samba I know is all about insanely loud drum orchestras and girls shaking their asses. Is there some other kind of wimpy samba I'm missing?

I think the Boredoms were something of a samba band, at one point.

― Kris (aqueduct), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah Kris, that's the batucada stuff I mentioned (that I love to death). There's also the non-street band Brazilian pop music side of samba that has the rhythms but a much lighter studio sound (with drumset, bass, guitar, etc.). I'm not that knowledgeable about the artists apart from a couple comps and the jazzier side of things (Sergio Mendes, Jobim, etc.), but I would absolutely say the Sea & Cake are influenced by wimpy samba. Tortoise, not so much.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

(I mean, batucada is the street music with the huge surdo line and and tons of drummers and ass-shaking)

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

joao gilberto invented the samba on his guitar, it's a playful little rhythm, check out the soundtrack to Black Orpheus (1959) for the roots of samba.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread has become completely self-reflexive. Arguing about Tortoise is so 1997!

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you being sarcastic, gygax? I know samba's been around for way longer than Gilberto/the 50s.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

You're right, I'm thinking of the "bossa nova" rhythm... I'm cornfused.

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah yes. Too much corn will do that.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

infused with corn?

― cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Jordan, have you ever heard much by Him? You *might* enjoy some of their stuff - led by a drummer (Doug Scharin), some nice ensemble pieces, plenty of African and Latin influenced grooves, folks like Rob Mazurek popping up... okay, perhaps nothing *wildly* exciting, but enough interesting things going on to stand up to a few hard listens.

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

No, but it sounds interesting (and I see SF-J has been involved, heh).

Just listened to a couple short amazon.com clips of Long Fin Killie...um, yeah, live dn'b pop, that doesn't sound like my perfect band or anything.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

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