japanese noise / rock music: false grail???

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Ok so i love fushitsusha & enjoy several merzbow records, but how many BAD albums have the boredoms recorded? are melt banana really any better than the stretchheads were? do vajra sound like a new age crass record? how many ruins albums do you really need. obviously i find myself drawn to most of this stuff like a moth to a flame. thoughts?

― bob snoom, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thought: we have discussed this before. :) As usual I can't be arsed to link.

― Omar, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

sorry - i'm new. scrap this.

― bob snoom, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thee Michelle Gun Elephant. Check them out.

― Alacrán, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

we've talked about japanoise, in a request for info etc, but I don't think we ever did a clssic/dud thing....

― Geoff, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, as I see it, bands like Fushitsusha and artists like Merzbow are of a different ilk than Ruins or Boredoms. The former bands seem sort of steeped conceptualism and fairly "serious", while Boredoms and Ruins seem relatively populist. This doesn't mean they are "popular", but I always got a much more inclusive feeling from their music than the others you mentioned.

That said, this stuff is only going to be a false grail if you're wanting to make it so. For example, I wasn't looking for the secret of life when I found out about Ruins, they just kind of ended up on my plate, and it turned out that I loved them. Same for Boredoms, and other Japanese bands I've sinced become a fan of. I would hardly try to convince someone this music was the answer to all of their ills, but I would try to play it for my friends in the hopes they might get as big a kick out of it as I did.

And in answer to your question, Boredoms have recorded no bad albums. Their worst album was Onanie Bomb, which was a compilation of their first two Japanese releases. It's noisy, but it's also silly and pretty harmless. Some even say "fun". :)

― dleone, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The Stretchheads were great, but Melt-Banana are indeed better. (I CAN'T stop playing that live set at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/alt/ peel_features/melt_banana_oct2001.shtml .) Boredoms are forgiven everything because they made both _Soul Discharge_ and _Super ae_. And don't forget the massive, mindbending discography of Yximalloo (the live album's a good starting point).

― douglas, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

wow...thanks for the link douglas...listening to melt banana at work..classic or ultra-friggin-classic?

― jess, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

unfortunately i always want to belive people when they say - check this - it's the keraziest record ever! it will be until the 4th or 5th listen when it starts sinking in and you've learnt all the complicated bits. i'm just a perpetual slave to the folly of an idea that there IS an all-saving holy grail in music somewhere (probably barry manilow's "mandy" or some christmas carols). it is v. silly but i'm a sucker to it. and did you not think "wow2" by the boredoms was pub rock, somewhat? (that & "pop tatari"). space streakings, anyone??????

― bob snoom, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Michelle Gun Elephant

― nude Spock, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"This following sub-question has been stolen from another thread for your convenience..."

Waitiminute....I just remembered, wasn't there some Japaneese grunge band that kept planning to tour the US, but they didn't because their Japaneese equivalent of Kurt Cobain died of a (Japaneese equivalent of Shannon Hoon) overdose? Who was that, and are they any good? (Talk about obscurantist hipsterism..."Hey, dig my [Japaneese Equivalent of Nirvana] CD...I'm the only one on my block cool enough to know about these guys. Such a shame that [Japaneese Equivalent of Kurt Cobain/Shannon Hoon] died so young. But that just means he's now the [Japaneese Equivalent of Jim Morrison/Gram Parsons/Nick Drake]."

― Lord Custos, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

dleone - I must take issue with your statements that P00shitsushi and The Merzboyz = "serious"! Firstly, Keiji Haino possesses amazingly hilarious catlike wit which does shine through, mainly in song titles. And Merboyz??? I've never heard a record by him that didn't rip enormous amounts of piss out of everyone he admires. Take "Tony Williams Deathspace" (whatever that track on door open at 8 am carries as a title). A tribute to one of Jazz's most virtuoso drummers. And Masami Akita's track? It samples an unbelievably simple triple-beat!

He has also done hilariously rendered cover versions of Sepultura, Black Sabbath, etc. etc. "Serious" my hairy arse...

― Kodanshi, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Firstly, Keiji Haino possesses amazingly hilarious catlike wit which does shine through, mainly in song titles.

I agree. It isn't that I think Haino and Merzbow don't have a sense of humor, but that it doesn't strike me as being a dominant charicteristic in their music. That said, I don't have quite the listening experience with them as I do bands like Ruins, and I know Haino, especially, has so many releases in different guises that pigeonholing him into one "style" was my bad idea.

― dleone, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

can anyone suggest a suitable entry point to the work of Vow Wow or Loudness?

― bob snoom, Wednesday, 7 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Why are they called Merzbow? That catches my attention.

― Maria, Thursday, 8 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

think it's something to do w/ "merzbau" - was that a hermann nitsch performance thing?

― bob snoom, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The name 'merzbau' actually comes from a gigantic 'total living environment' created by collagist Kurt Schwitters in the 1920s and 1930s.

― Andrew L, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And it means something like "architecture by pounding" or summat.

― Kodanshi, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"autechre by pond"

― bob snoom, Friday, 9 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two months pass...

Let's get one thing straight: The Boredoms are light years ahead of any of these bands you are naming (and yes, I have albums by every one of them). Conceptually, though they sound somewhat awkward or silly, I think the music can be listened to very seriously. It's cathartic, heavy, trancendent, completely bonkers, and some of the imagery they conjure up is far more vivid than any droning, grating soundscape acts Merzbow has ever produced. Now I LIKE Merzbow, I am a big fan of his style of full-on power-electronics "noise" music (personally I think the Incapacitants do it better than him though). But Melt-Banana? Yeah that band is ok, but I feel they are sort of two-dimensional in a way. Melt-Banana sounds like a brainless cartoon version of what people would probably think "crazy Japanese rock" is supposed to sound like. In their vein I'd take Men's Recovery Project, Arab On Radar or Fisticuffs Bluff over them any day. Heck, even Assfort. Yeah, I know not all those bands are Japanese, but music is music. To my knowledge, the Boredoms have only released great albums (with a few possible exceptions being these questionable "remix" albums they just came out with), but as with all music (especially more abstract music) everyone has their own criteria for "bad" and "good". If you culminate all of their relentless output under different names, collaberations and side-projects they pretty much eclipse the whole Japanese noise scene (eYe's legendary Hanatarash was a harsh blueprint that still beats out any band in the "nutsoid" department, including Gerogerigegege) And I think by my standards, they are the best thing Japan has offered musically. Zeni Geva might come in a distant second.

― Mr. Human, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Melt-Banana sounds like a brainless cartoon version of what people would probably think "crazy Japanese rock" is supposed to sound like.

That's sort of why I like them. I agree, however, about the Boredoms standing out from the pack in terms of aesthetic depth / flexibility.

― Nitsuh, Wednesday, 16 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yep - the boredoms aren't workshy thass 4 sure but don't that kinda maybe lead to "great" (read: NOT) albums like WOW2 & pop tatari?. mindblowing if you've not heard the amon duul 2 albums the boredoms are now >ahem< "taking inspiration" from , but otherwise perhaps only >ahem< terminal cheesecake quality. when good = v. v. good when bad = horrid. ever so looking forward to new cornelius album, tho. & new fushitsusha w/out the guitar v. intrigued...

― bob snoom, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

only jap music i know is japenese boy by anneka rice awful pile of crap. and japan the group had a song about ghosts. also crap. never heard anything else but gotta be shit after what they done to us in the war scumbags.

― XStatic Peace, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two years pass...

sorry but Zeni Geva blows them all away!

― DR. gonzo, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh lord, I love you all.

NOISE, specially, SEARCH: Aube, some Merzbow (Amlux, Pulse Demon, Frog, Venereology), Masonna

Zeni Geva are indeed grebt; I don't like Melt Banana. Dave Fischer likes Super Junky Monkey, who sound more or less like Melt Banana. Space Streakings are nice in small doses; they get too redundant over the course of an LP though.

I like Boredoms at times. The screechy noisy stuff less so than the krauty stuff, but even that can get boring/redundant/derivative. "Acid Police" from Chocolate Synthesizer is perhaps my favorite Boredoms song, due to its total absurd hilarity.

Acid Mothers Temple: Search La Novia. I maintain that it's their best release; not as heavy as the earliest stuff, and it has has awesome chanting/throat singing. AND THOSE SOLOS, OH GOD, THE SOLOS.

xoxo!!!!!!

― IAN J0HNSON, Wednesday, 4 February 2004 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

ever heard of Whitehouse? kinda like Merzbow but way more extreme. i think there british. way too much for me though.

― Dr. Gonzo, Sunday, 7 March 2004 08:19 (twenty-two years ago)

extremely entertaining and extremely camp perhaps

― the surface noise (electricsound), Sunday, 7 March 2004 08:23 (twenty-two years ago)

They toured here recently. Surface noise and I both saw them. They are the real deal, and have been for a long time. They are so far ahead of the other noise bands that there is no real point of comparison. It'spartly because of the lyrics and the delivery. However it's definitely in the sounds too - more to the point, it's in the members of the band. They have the nerve, the skill and the motivation to make the thing really happen in a body level as well as in the head. Why Whitehouse hit so hard, where so many noise bands come over as a safe, arty academic exercise, is a really interesting question which I don't really have the understanding to answer.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 7 March 2004 08:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i find it sorta funny how all the POWER NOISE people dismiss the japanese noise groups for 'getting it wrong' or whatever when generally speaking the only audible difference is that they don't shout obscene narrations over their WY%OWUR(UGO$#(GUFWOTUW$IVFIJWO.

that said i quite enjoy whitehouse and sutcliffe jugen and their ilk. though more these days when it's "quieter" and more droney.

― scissors (Honda), Sunday, 7 March 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

whitehouse isn't japanese though!

― Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Noise/Girl are. and they're pretty groovy.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

the obscene narrations are urgent and key

― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

"Acid Police" from Chocolate Synthesizer is perhaps my favorite Boredoms song, due to its total absurd hilarity.

I guess everyone was right. The Ian/Jon and I are indeed twins separated at birth.

― dean! (deangulberry), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

hey dean! i love you!

LES RALLIZES DENUDES == true grail of Japanese rock

― Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

IAN JOHNSON/JONATHAN WILLIAMS/DEAN! "O" "T" "M"

― gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I bought Chocolate Synthesizer for $1 US.

― dean! (deangulberry), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

(also ian, let's just be friends/twins)

― dean! (deangulberry), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I love Chocolate Synthesizer. I haven't listened to it lately, since I don't have much that it goes with.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:23 (twenty-two years ago)

It goes well with shorts.

Also, Soul Discharge ... I don't own it. Should I? Should I not?

― dean! (deangulberry), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you should own it. I should own it.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

jon williams gave me my copy of chocolate synthesizer. what a weirdo.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:33 (twenty-two years ago)

give me soul discharge ian.jon!

― dean! (deangulberry), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

tatsuya yoshida is the king of my ears

― bob snoom, Wednesday, 10 March 2004 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

His new duo disc with Satoko Fujii on Tzadik (Erans) is great.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Did anyone really notice that Melt-Banana FINALLY changed up their formula on that last album? Teeny Shiny kinda hinted towards this but there is some full-on, grinding POP music on this. I like it lots but I think it may have come too late in their career for many to still care.

These days Boris are doing it for me more than anyone... but not that stoner rock stuff, the Melvins drone material is more interesting to me. The Chokoku no Niwa split is AMAZING (more so Boris, but both bands are solid) and their new album is pretty damn good too.

Holy grail of Japanese rock = Super Roots 7?

― original bgm, Wednesday, 10 March 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

And dleone: could you say a bit more about the yoshida/fujii disc? You piqued my curiosity...

― original bgm, Wednesday, 10 March 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

13 relatively short chamber-jazz tunes, half by him and half by Fujii, with plenty of improv (but also lots of melody/structure/etc). I think his collaborations with Fujii from the last few years have been more interesting than his Ruins stuff from the same period. This album is probably the closest to straight jazz I've heard Yoshida play on, but it's also arguably the most immediately accessible.

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks! Sounds interesting. I'll have to download this and see for myself, I'm thinking. I have to admit, the most recent Ruins lineup didn't do too much for me (Burning Stone/Koenji get all my love... but for different reasons entirely) but this sounds more up my alley.

― original bgm, Wednesday, 10 March 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

dleone - is "erans" just drums and piano then?

― my name is limitless, Wednesday, 10 March 2004 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, last track has vocals

― dleone (dleone), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

sort of speaking of choukoku no niwa, does anyone know if they've done anything other than the split with boris? i feel like they're yet another japanese band whose CDs are only available from one tiny store somewhere in tokyo, and they don't do mailorder. like helicoid 0222mb.

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Wednesday, 10 March 2004 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

eat a hedge banana... cool it with your tongue, find a funky hand lover , and drive into the sun

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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Ids898268et2otedioydr09

― Matthew D.N. Parsons, Monday, 24 May 2004 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

how many BAD albums have the boredoms recorded?

ZERO

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:19 (twenty-one years ago)

INFINITY

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

BORE → V∞RE

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Monday, 24 May 2004 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

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