the macunian candidates

yikes! 26 and i still can`t spell

You forgot an important contender to the top spot in Manchester indie music: The Fall. I guess the Madchester bands Stone Roses and Happy Mondays only play second league.

alex, the fall was a deliberate omission, as were the roses, the mondays, the chameleons, the buzzcocks, magazine etc..i`m not asking for nominations for the position of mancunian music`s top dog..just simply thoughts on the question; no/jd vs the smiths?

This question (or your heated debate) wasn't prompted by last Saturday's football focus was it? Manc bands vs Liverpool bands to go with last Sunday's match. Snatches of "She Bangs The Drums", "Hit The North" and "Alright" accompanying goals by Beckham, Owen, etc. Ray Stubbs: "The Cast. They were a great band, The Cast" (Er, what?) Lawrensen stares back bewildered, mutters something about Blur. Hilarious stuff.

Sorry, I'm off the point. The real answer is to your question is ACR, but between the limited options, I'll pick New Order.

easy, the Smiths...hands down.

First thing, New Order are not Joy Division. They are completely different bands and should always be thought of as such. It's not some kind of 'I hate New Order they are ruining the name and memory of such a majestic band' thing, I do like New Order a lot, but they're so different and they themselves ought to remember that. I don't care if you think they do those JD covers well, they just shouldn't be doing them, rah. And I know they contributed to JD just as much as Mr Dead did, but it's over, finished, put to rest, and I don't want to see a bunch of old gimps playing (covering, remember) those songs.

Umm, yeah, The Smiths were OK. More than OK, really, but much as the songs are great, and I do like Mozzer's turn of phrase most of the time, they never, uh, moved me.

I remember seeing something on MTV about "The Manchester Sound" - They were interviewing Morrissey, who rattled off a few names like the Stone Roses, the Fall, (Charlatans? - I don't remember) - and then said, "and Joy Division, who I never really cared for." - I remember thinking, "You pompous fucking ass! I don't remember anyone asking for your opinion. You're just here to read a laundry list." As you can tell, the incident scarred me. Because (and it's no secret) I think Morrissey is an asshole. He pulled the same thing talking about the Cocteau Twins in an article I read - Why mention them if you're going to editorialize about how much you hate them?

So JD anf the Fall win. Smiths lose, thanks to their pompous mouthpiece.

emily no and jd are not the same, there was a (gradual then rapid) musical change, but in many ways they are still the same if u see what i mean..and why should they not play their songs even if they do so badly? they`re their fucking songs as much as ian`s, why should they be buried with him?

dave, even though i consider myself a smiths fan i share your antipathy towards morrisey. much as i love a lot of the music i don`t 'get' the appeal of morrisey; what makes him so loveable?

I've heard from people that have seen them that the JD songs are done very well indeed.

Possibly the reason that I don't like to see them do it, whereas I wouldn't mind seeing them perform, say, Blue Monday (ie it's not that I don't like 'Greatest Hits' type songs being played) is that Joy Division were cut off sharply. They had no time to become tired or boring, and there's no sad old man to place in stark contrast with the violent passion of IC's youth. And New Order became something different sharply, without stumbling, I see no need for them to do it. I think it's graceless.

I dunno, perhaps it smacks of 'Ian Curtis died for you', but that's not what I mean, really. And nor do I mean all bands should die before they're 30 (although maybe...) because they'd seem a bit 'special'. Oh, I don't know what I mean any more...

I think they were wary about doing them for years although they started doing the odd one around ten yrs ago. They used to often do them in soundchecks. I remember hearing them do 4 or 5 JD songs (Digital, 24 Hours, Atmosphere, LWTUA...IIRC) as long ago as 1981.

There *is* something weird about New Order playing Joy Division songs, in that they made a point of not doing so for years and then abruptly decided to start 18 years into their existence. That sudden change of mind made me worry that they had turned into a tribute band to themsleves, just playing the hits to please the punters.

They played LWTUA fairly often around 1986-8.

Oh, I didn't know that.