The Saints first two albums - Classic or more classic

Yeah, I think so. Just even lesser known, maybe.

Although mark s will be along in a minute to insist they're not punXOR or wore the wrong jackets or something, I maintain they're classic outsider punk. Every track on both albums is great - This Perfect Day, No Time, (I'm) Stranded, Know Your Product, Lost and Found and Messin With The Kid.....whooo!

They're totally great; I prefer "Eternally Yours"... yeah there's no real bum tracks.

Messin With The Kid in particular might go down as one the coolest, most resigned sounding swagger of a song ever. The way Kuepper comes in at the end over the strum is one of the great rock moments. The line which I think goes something like "all the girls lookin so pretty, but it don't make a difference no matter how hard you try" - now teenange angst dosen't get summed up better than that. Wild About You is just 100% pure rock n'roll.

The intro to "Messin' with the Kid" is fantastic - the picked chords and then Kuepper's slightly out-of-tune riff(Na na naar na-naar naa)- great!

Yeah, it's an amazing song, one of my favourites of all time. Sort of the ultimate Stones sounding song in a way as well! Never gets written about though, even in articles on The Saints. Was glad that Jon Savage gave the reissues such as great write up in Mojo recently. He should have mentioned them more in England's Dreaming. Another genius moment is the strum at the start "Memories Are Made Of This" from Eternally Yours. Ever hear their version of River Deep Mountain High from that time? Almost unrecognizable in content but the spirit remains. It's on the Know Your Product compilation. Some great songs on the third album as well but they started sounding a bit jazzy.

Actually got in Kuepper first rather than the Saints, and I love his solo stuff quite a bit. Sure is a hell of a lot of it, though!

Got in Kuepper! How adventurous of me! Got *into* Kuepper.

Haven't heard the second album but the first one is stone cold classic punXor or not. Best heard on vinyl with the needle picking up the filth and dust with the sound getting scuzzier and scuzzier as it goes on.

Whilst knowing sod all about the Saints my best buddy worships Ed Kuepper + once dragged me along to see the man play solo. Unaccompanied with electric guitar, a battery of FX pedals, and his foot tapping on an old wooden crate I feared a long dull evening. Not a bit of it. His guitar shot out a veritable kaleidoscope of colours and textures contrasting neatly with his grumpy vocals. He even covered 'Highway to Hell' and made it sound deeply poignant and melancholic. I gather he restricts himself to 'mail order only' releases these days to a dwindling bunch of mostly antipodean fans, and tbh what I've heard hasn't been as dazzling as that gig. Still a 'lost guitar hero' though.

strange enough the saints were mentioned on the show gilmore girls as well as charles mingus, mc5 and some other crap. but they praised MOJO, oh no! best line from the show is still 'what kind of gloomy are you-- a lou reed kind of gloomy or joy division gloomy?'

David - I have the 'Know your Product' comp, and yes RDMH is ace.

I read on some website or other that the newly remastered sound on the recent CD re-issues and the 'Wild about You' 2-CD set is supposed to be much better than before. Anybody know if this true? I'm thinking of getting 'Wild About You' for the extra tracks and 'Prehistoric Sounds' which I don't have - better sound on the stuff I already have would help me to justify it!

Not sure Dr. C, but I think they belong on vinyl really. The coarseness of the sound is the attraction along with Bailey's snarly Iggyesque vocal (guy from Strokes eat your heart out). The first LP is actually pretty difficult to get on record - a mate of mine got it for me in Camden in 1990.

Saw Kuepper at The Borderline in Sept 1992 at the height of his Everett True led Melody Maker praise. He was doing incredible stuff with his guitar but all done in an unassuming stony faced way, that same apathetic and remote pose he had on the "I'm Stranded" cover shot. Caught the video for the "I'm Stranded" single on Australian TV a couple of years back. It was set in the same derelict house used for the LP cover. Awesome stuff.

I reckon the pinnacle of Ed's solo career was in the early 90's with Honey Steel's Gold and Black Ticket Day. These two + Today Wonder (great cover of 'If I Were a Carpenter') are the only ones I still own. Serene Machine (1993-ish) was OK, but I didn't really like much of what I heard after that. I don't recall hearing the Laughing Clowns.

yeah yeah i like the saints a lot, tho their afterlife rep-swell = schmindie beyond measure (or more to the point: schmindie near as unto blimmin big star)

if subway sect are punXoR then so are the saints: ie i HEART HEART HEART subway sect but they are no more punk than banshees damned or metal urbain

2 incredible albuns (and "Know Your Product" is pretty damned good too)

Only have his 1985 solo effort, "Electrical Storm". Always meant to get the early 90's stuff but maybe some day! Himself and bailey have only recently started acknowledging how great The Saints were. Before it was always the solo career interview cliche "please talk about my current release, forget about my old band, they were only OK".

The first Saints album so classic you only tell your best and most trusted compadres about it. Not always given its true and rightful place in history.

'New Bully In Town' by The Laughing Clowns is one of the greatest songs of all time. I first heard it on the 'This Is Hot' comp (also contains a great track by a group called The Lighthouse Keepers, NOT to be confused w/The Lighthouse Family!) Also Search: 'Ascension' by The Aints (!), a great post-Clowns Ed Keupper group (Big bonus points for that cheeky alb title!)

Well i've always thought of the 2nd and 3rd albums, namely 'Eternally Yours' and 'Prehistoric Sounds' to be the better and then the best of the three with Kuepper. OK I like 'Stranded' too, but for me '.. Yours' is a great advance on that, and '.. Sounds' an advance on '.. Yours'.

OK, they all rock, but whereas the first album is simple yet effective, the third pulls together horn arrangements, 'ballads' and rock to unusually convincing effect. Maybe feeling a bit more sorry for itself in its whine and less consistently full paced, but lyrically more honest for it. More mature w/out losing anything.

Being 'Australasian' myself I've always thought it sounds most convincingly local of the three -- it might have been recorded in London but it has always sounded the most Australian of the three. Does that help ? Well its the most saint-like you can get from any line-up of the Saints. This is Australian attitude. Punk, rock, yet very Australian.

The Laughing Clowns/Kuepper were the better splinter group -- the post-Kuepper-saints (the _real_ 'aints' imho) were back to pub-rock slobber.

'Stranded' is anger, rock, aggression, adolescence. So the band grew up, and after a couple more just-as-cool albums Kuepper had to leave - - R'n'B 'arrangements' plus Punk/Rock is better than simpler 'fast food' in my book. '.. Sounds' is for me the beginning of these peoples' golden period, albeit sometimes in other groups, and usually involving Kuepper.

Nope, sorry. They're great, but Funhouse trumps the whole lot. That said, I really like the Saints A LOT, including the material after those mentioned.

Classics all the way.

They were good band and have some great songs, but they were nowhere near as intense or strange as The Stooges. Some of this may be growing up listening to The Stooges, but I don't think anything on those first two records gets as freaky as most of Funhouse.

I don't mean this as a knock on The Saints, they are definitely a rock band that many would like if they ever heard their music. I haven't gotten their third album, so perhaps I should give it a check.

Some of the Australian rock I have always been curious about are the bands that came in the wake of the Radio Birdmen. I really liked the reissue that SubPop put out a year or so ago and it kind of filled in a blank of one of those bands you hear about, but never heard for me. Anyone have some of those albums?

Yes, I have some. All of the Radio Birdman stuff is great. I also recommend Union Carbide Productions very highly. There was a tremendous amount of great stuff from Australia in the '80s, like Feedtime (everybody should own their Shovel disc), Scientists, Lime Spiders, King Snake Roost, and others.

Well, technically, Union Carbide is Swedish but well worth checking out regardless. Another recommendation for The Scientists and the Lipstick Killers if you can find it.

Yep - I stand corrected on the Union Carbide thingy......... Sweden & Australia had parallel scenes of a similar nature in the '80s. Tons of noisy psychedelic/garage stuff of very high quality.

yes... resulting in two branches of the whole "new rock" thing in the 00's... the Vines, The Hives etc...