Is moving away from vinyl killing dj-ing?

the removal of a gatekeeper might well be good in certain respects, but less so in others. for example, hearing a dj coming over who you know is going to have loads of new things, and everyone else is excited too, that creates a vibe, but if they are just being heard everywhere, whenever, it means theres a wide focus, instead of a narrower more intense focus, a glut of everythign can lead to lazyness or lethargy, the lack of the big night.

i dont know, i did argue the other side of this on the trash board a while back, saying mp3 djing isnt a bad thing, but, i also think it can be. it depends

saying that, i wholeheartedly embrace djing going into the digital domain. i can't wait for the day (which is already here somedays) when i never need to carry a record box again. however, i am not enjoying converting 30 000 records to aiff - that is suffering!

However there is a very good case that having limitations to what you can technically do elevates the end product by forcing djs to get creative within those limitations. Like Theo Parrish's point is more about how hard he's going to have to work to get people going if he's brought the wrong records, but he will be able to get them going eventually no matter what he's brought, y'know?

I do also think that the hands-on nature of djing with vinyl gives it a certain nuance that you probably currently don't get with the digital equivalent. But that's a pretty weak argument - it's the "Pro tools versus roland boxes" kind of line - one technology brings some advantages, another technology brings different ones.

And it may be a great thing for the monopoly that vinyl djs enjoy to be busted up by the democratising digi-hordes, but I can't help but feel that it spells a bit of a return to the bad old days of corny nightclubs. When the guy supplying the music becomes just part of the background, I'm not sure that's a good thing.

PS - I AM GETTING A POWERBOOK AND WILL BE ABLE TO DO THINGS YOU GUYS COULD NEVER DO

as far as "the bad old days of corny nightclubs" goes, maybe i'm just getting old but when i go out clubbing (which is like three nights a week for me) i don't want to hear an eclectic, surprising set like theo's dj mixes. that's too much work - for me!

i want to dance like a fiend, and for me to be able to do that, i want to hear the music i know. i want to hear the prince tracks i like, and the michael jackson tracks i like, and the hit rap songs they're playing on the radio, and the newest dfa remixes, and the madonna songs i like, and maybe some current club music like whatever thomas bangalter or basement jaxx are really into right now.

the problem with the mindset of djs like theo parrish and jeff mills is that suddenly every corner bar dj thinks he's theo parrish or jeff mills - trying to take me on a journey with his shitty two-years-of-bedroom-practice skills. fuck that!

i guess i just want hits and anthems and hot tracks, lined up one after another. anybody can do that with a cd player? good! means maybe i'll have to do less hunting to find a fun night out.

digital mixing levels the playing field for DJs and give your average non-fabric club goer the oppportunity to hear a fresher selection of tunes.

anyway doesn't the dj profession generally get slagged for its lack of 'authenticity'? knob twiddlers and button pushers, the lot of em!

Anyhow, it's an apples and oranges comparison because you don't (necessarily) need mixing skills to play the hits, and the main point of this thread (as I see it) is to question whether the new technologies that make mixing easier are a positive or negative thing for the art of DJ'ing.

(xpost bimble)

The other side of the coin is everybody owning the same laptop with the same software, using the same sounds to emulate the same Autechre and Boards of Canada albums. The technology may make it easier for someone to sound like Autechre (without having to spend hours assembling equipment like Autechre would) but that just floods the market with a load of mediocre Autechre clones.

It's similar with DJ'ing. A person may have access to Final Scratch (which does not mix for you), Ableton Live and loads of f/x programs and still be a shitty DJ. The availability and ease of use doesn't invalidate the work of a great DJ, but it does make it easier for a neophyte to become a mediocre DJ.

That said, talent will rise to the top and there'll be a bunch of new DJ's with mad skills who use the new technology, but they'll have to work a little harder to stand out amongst the sea of mediocrity (and the DJ's who were already great).

To read Parrish's comments, it sounds like anyone will be able to download what's hot this week, load it into a program that'll do beatmatching, and sit back as magic happens.

All this pissing and moaning about records being physical art objects is silly. Excuse me while I go clean out the keyboard on my laptop.

in the words of adonis - 'no way back'!

Like some people can do amazing things with vinyl that just will never be possible on a laptop - I can't imagine DJ Godfather using one anytime soon.

But at the same time others will be able to "blow minds" with a laptop.

And scratch mix competitions will always rely on vinyl (whether or not you think scratch mix competitions are a worthwhile endeavour).

Twitch, you're not the same Twitch that used to play at Pure are you?

of course Vahid is right in that 99% of the time you just wanna hear Madonna, so take a step out of the spotlight if you would, dj stuperstar.

I tend to think that there are two factors in making music - there's the sonic possibilities of the device, and there's the richness of the interface. In shifting from vinyl to laptop you add more sonic possibilities, but you lose out in terms of the interface - because moving records around is a physical action it contains much more nuance than moving a mouse, which is a digitised facsimile...

But yeah, anything that weeds out shit bar djs HAS to be a good thing.

Geez I sound like a guitar shredder here. Oh well, time to unleash the fucking fury.

Like some people can do amazing things with vinyl that just will never be possible on a laptop

not true. i'll put up a laptop set on my server space sometime soon as a demonstration.

and yes jacob, i did do pure, back in the day.

Great days.

Isn't the whole veneration of DJ "culture" kinda, you know, silly? It's immaterial if you happen to like or not like the sounds he's getting at any given moment, but whether you love it or hate it, who the hell cares about watching a guy PLAY RECORDS?! Or expressing admiration for the "skill" he demonstrates in damping cues and moving the slider perhaps a bit more smoothly than his DJ-ing brethren. It's not rocket science and it's not sports (well, perhaps it is in the mind of the guy lamenting how button-pushers - as opposed to slider pushers - are making things "too easy" - haha!) - it's a guy PLAYING RECORDS.

Now I don't think that there's necessarily anything wrong with that. I can play records, you can play records, I can listen to the records other people play, but I truly am amazed that someone really cares about the methodology and "skill level" of, well, the guy playing records. That notion makes about as much sense as buying tickets to watch the world's fastest typist.

I wonder what the complaining DJ thinks of jukeboxes. They make things really easy, look better, and you probably don't have to pay it as much.

while i agree that at its base DJing is just "playing records", there is an artistry to mixing that you can't ignore (even if you do not appreciate it).

unless you never go out clubbing, which would make the above statement much easier to make. (not picking, just sayin'...)

In other words, I fail to see what difference the medium of delivery would make here. If a DJ is clearing the floor, it's not because he's playing mp3s instead of vinyl now, is it?

a lot of people seem to be forgetting that - especially as compared with a really well-mastered piece of vinyl - mp3's sound absolutely shit, especially on a club soundsystem. (and i say this as someone for whom 75% of his new listening is now mp3.) the idea of listening to drum & bass. for instance, on mp3 in a club seems pretty ridiculous, to me.

either way presumably when cds really catch on will be when mp3s or whatever can be the same quality as vinyl, and parrish etc's comments would still seem to suggest they'd be opposed to this. I can't believe the "there should be pain involved" position, truly dreadful.

i dont feel that there necessarily has to be some steep learning curve for music (engineering bridges yes though!), so i dont prize vinyl because it is harder. i do enjoy spinning it more though. i tend to be someone who prefers as perfect a ratio as possible between movement and effect. otoh, i have not had the chance to play with the best pioneer and technics cd decks, so if i find they are just as responsive, if i can cue as easily, then hurrah!

i think the major secret problem that gives an edge to vinyl though is the mastering. its not the old vinyl vs cd debate, as much as the decisions that various engineers will make when faced with EQing for different formats.

"i will only go to clubs where they use gold needles"

what a stupid statement.

I saw an ad for that and cried inside.