Outside looking in

By 'off-center' I don't mean WRONG, of course, it's a reflection of how somebody would HEAR it. I'm thinking of two quotes - the ubiquitous Eno, "When I was in Thailand they played this stuff that just sounded totally monotonous all the way through, but the locals would jump up and clap at certain points, that sounded the exact same to me as every other point in the song - what were they hearing?" Turn that inside out and hear the ENTIRE spectrum of western music with those ears. Second quote - Sonic Youth on their Russian tour. "They just thought we were doin everything wrong. The only band they'd seen was Iron Maiden, and compared to them they thought we just had no idea how to play or even tune up." (Three possibilities - a) Russians are ignorant? b)Russians are just more honest and less worried about 'coolness'? c)The more music sticks to traditional values of melody/rhythm/texture/overtones etc., the more it STRIKES THAT UNIVERSAL CHORD and thus 'commerical' music is some sense BETTER?)

Put Sonic Youth in front of 90 percent of people I know and you'll get the same reaction.

Secret option 4. Not just Russians, but everyone is ignorant. Or if not ignorant then just not interested in music enough to bother listening to anything that doesn't automatically appeal to them.

I would think that in some parts of the world (outside The West) there is no need for a guide to Western pop music, because a lot of it is already being played on the radio there, or receiving other forms of exposure. (That doesn't mean they are necessarily hearing less commercially successful things, but that makes them no different than a lot of people in the West.) I don't know which countries this is true for, however.

Some of the scholarly musicology journals occasionally have interesting articles that might relate a little bit. I read one recently, I think it was in the journal "Popular Music," which is international in scope, about Nepalese mix-tapes. There are some funny things in it about their perceptions of metal and hip-hop. The associations they have with these forms of music are at odds with standard associations here, and elements of both get folded into their mixes. (I need to make a copy of that article.)

sonic youth were AWFUL the last time i saw them.

I only saw Sonic Youth once and I thought they were too loud. (This is what my father said about Bill Hailey and the Comets when he saw them with my mom when they were courting.) And some guy with a psychic cross on his leather jacket was bitching and moaning about apathetic Philadelphia audiences. Anyway, I've liked a few songs (Star Power, Expressway to Your Skull, Flower, and Halloween are the ones I can think of) that I've heard by them, but I think they are a bit overrated.

DeRayMi, you have good Sonic Youth taste for someone who doesn't really like them. But, I'm curious, have you heard the rest of the first three albums? Do you dislike the albums and think that these are the standout tracks?

Sundar,

It's actually been a long time since I've heard any of their albums. In fact, I don't even know for sure which ones I've heard, but I think I've heard Evol, Confusion is Sex, and Daydream Nation, possibly others. These were copies owned by someone else, but I do remember hanging out and listening quite a bit. Anyway, I always thought that "Star Power" and "Expressway to yr Skull" were considered to be "crossover" songs, and therefore somewhat suspect, by hardcore Sonic Youth fans. The other two I taped off an EP, and they may have caught me at a time when I was particularly receptive to their sound.

Perhaps there is nothing that thrilling about Sonic Youth if you haven't been brought up on a generation of 'solid melodic rock' .(this isn't a dig at SY...just an observation) Perhaps you need a good few yers of Iron Maiden before SY sound like a relief

How exactly did SY learn that this was the reason for their lacklustre reception in Russia? Was there some sort of poll? Are they quoting critics? How do they know the Russians weren't just thinking "Dude, Sofia Gubaidulina kicks these guys' asses at noise and dissonance?" Also, is/was Iron Maiden really big in Russia? That would be so cool. (It seems a little odd to me that IM is being seen as the representative of commercial melodic rock here.) Wait, only 2 rock bands had played Russia, or this part of Russia, at the time - Sonic Youth and Iron Maiden? This whole story is starting to seem dubious. There was a whole Russian rock scene, wasn't there?

From what I saw the times I was in India, Western pop was a lot bigger than Western rock. No one I met knew who R. E. M. was. My cousin thought it was funny that someone would name their band after rapid eye movement. Michael Jackson and Madonna were household names, the Beatles too, but I don't remember Led Zeppelin being one. I think the glorification of rough-and-ready-ness in a lot of rock might not go over well in a place where people are mostly hoping to escape poverty.

dave q, music that sticks to 'traditional' (i.e. Western) norms of melody/rhythm/harmony/texture does not strike a universal chord and you know it. Unless you want to convince me that the traditional music of every culture shares these norms. Brian Eno might beg to differ.

In one Soviet-era poll Manowar apparently was the most popular Western band, ahead of the Beatles, so if that's true the Maiden thing doesn't seem so unbelievable, and hasn't power-metal always been big in the former East bloc for some reason?

I made a tape of Fripp & Eno's "No Pussyfooting" for the Palestinian who taught me about Arabic music, but he said he had to turn it off. Weird things started happening around his shop. He seemed to think that it was music that stirred up the jinn. I think he was being serious (though he sometimes said things just to pull my leg).

Another successful thread revival!

First time I've seen this thread...

I think the glorification of rough-and-ready-ness in a lot of rock might not go over well in a place where people are mostly hoping to escape poverty.

That's an interesting thought. It makes sense to me that a la Joe Carducci, the smoothness of pop ("the promise of a frictionless existence"?) might appeal to folks in a way somehow linked to someone's material/class aspiration.

But doesn't really harsh death metal go over well in some desperately poor slums in South America? Could be an anomaly or an argument against that idea...

i was staying at a place in Indonesia where the caretaker would sit in the grounds backing onto the jungle and play a beautiful bamboo gamelan. when i asked him what the music was and how beautiful it was he shrugged dismissively and said he really loved michael bolton: he claimed it that was very emotional music.