With classical you could argue that the 'essence' (I'm not happy using this term, btw) is the score, with jazz (pre-1969ish) the performance, so with rock and pop is it the actual recording, the production, the disc? How about dance music; obviously produced and pressed in much the same way, but how much is the performative aspect of it actually being played in clubs to make people dance an integral part of what it is, where it's essence lies, what gets talked about as it passes through history? What passes through history?
This is partly inspired by something I half remember from a lecture back when I was an undergrad, and partly from thinking about the fire at Saatchi's warehouse (I was just putting some posters up for the current Tate Moxdern exhibition), and trying to think how I would feel if my own work was destroyed in a fire, equating written word stored in print on paper and in binary on a server and a HD with actual physical artefacts, and thinking how musicians might feel if their work was destroyed, also can it be destroyed (once it's been put in the public sphere, as it were; unreleased master tapes being lost/burnt etcetera are a different thing, but how does that feel)?
Totally lost my train of thought cos of work related shit (started writing this at about 9.30am!), but away we go...
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:39 (twenty years ago) link
― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 08:49 (twenty years ago) link
― lukey (Lukey G), Wednesday, 2 June 2004 10:54 (twenty years ago) link
if the 'essence' or 'spirit' of jazz is in the live performance and not the recording of same, or in the performers and instruments themselves, then is the 'e/p' of a theatrical musical act [whether we speak of opera or of gwar] also the performative iteration and not the recording of same? here we see the wishy-washy nature of the question: you cannot draw the line, any more than you can say, poet x is a very literary poet and the essence is in the text and poet y is a very electrifying poet and the essence is in the reading the poet gives, breathing life into it, so let's divide up all the poets of the world into x's and y's. how about the essence of comedy - the joke or the teller. the essence of theatre - the script or the performance. the essence of a film: if you watch a sloppily dubbed, gaudily colorized and cropped for tv version on a little set with commercial breaks, surely the spirit is still there, right? the essence is there, right?
no no, you mean, we are talking about purity. what is the key to the art form that we can use as a metaphor for what sets that art apart: jazz is improv, therefore, logically, obviously only seeing it actually improvised then disappear into the ether is the essence. and classical, that's like a language, it must be done the same every time, that's what makes classical special. and pop music, well, it's about timbre and touching up folk music into a polished or more sophisticated form, and selling it, so qed the essence is the purchasable copy.
what about all the many, many bands who say in interviews that the essence of what they are about is their live show, and not their records, the records are compromised or sound tinny?
This is becasue indy is a more reactionary genre. the history of music theirfor seems to be a history of things that broke new ground (this is the essential nature of all chronologies I would posit).
what rubbish. their are histories which valorize innovators, and histories which examine what life was like for the masses, and histories which are built around amusing stories, etc. in music history, this means that some chronologies are built around the author's idea of who was innovative, but some are built around the author's idea of what was influential and popular and meaningful to large numbers of people, and some are built around memorable events which just sort of sum up that time.
― mig, Wednesday, 2 June 2004 18:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Sasha (sgh), Thursday, 3 June 2004 00:13 (twenty years ago) link
― lukey (Lukey G), Thursday, 3 June 2004 09:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 3 June 2004 09:33 (twenty years ago) link
Or am I still confused after the effort of trying to analyse all the subtle nuances in the lyrics to "Stand By Your Man"?
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 3 June 2004 10:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 3 June 2004 11:21 (twenty years ago) link