Reynolds describes how a few bands changed tack with their 'difficult' marginalised music and tried to achieve mainstream success. This was called Entryism (reflecting the Militant Tendancy activity within the Labour party).
Like Militant such entryism was not particularly successful, however there the comparison breaks down as what happened in pop music is more accurately called Assimilation, where some elements of the marginal music became a tool of mainstream bands. Wham and Dollar for instance took parts of the energy and techniques that the earlier bands had developed and made them mainstream currency.
Its probably something that has happened all through pop history. Gary Numan assimilates parts of the first three Ultravox albums, Sweet cherry pick parts of early 70s heavy rock and wrap in some Bowie derived glam. Scratch the surface of Adam and the Ants Mark 2 and see parts of Mark 1 (or in Marco's case, Rema Rema/The Models)
I'm not really trying to rehash my disagreements with Reynolds piece again though. I'm more interested in trying to work out if such mechanisms are still in evidence and if so which mainstream acts are doing the assimilation. I can't think of any examples of recent entryism, but there have been a few recent assimilations especially in rap / hip hop. Mainstream rock bands such as U2 and Radiohead have similarly used marginalised music to inform / style their recent music.
The other interesting thing I would like the folks here to tell me is if they think such assimilation helps the marginalised music gain a wider audience. I would suggest not, despite my own interest in such minority music occasionally being fired by some mainstream band namechecking lesser-known bands. I suspect I would have stumbled over the minorty music eventually anyway and I can think of few minority bands which became well known after a popular band acknowledged them. Certainly no recent examples. Anyone disagree?
― Alexander Blair, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― dave q, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― mark s, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
What? You never did the "Kenosha Kid"?
― Sterling Clover, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
erm, anyway - I tried really hard to avoid saying if I thought either entryism and / or assimilation were good or bad things. I was really wanting to see if the ideas themselves were still around.
But for what its worth. entryism = bad thing
Previously left field band or artist tries to go commercial hardly ever makes great music (later Gang of Four, Pop Group offshoots etc... any more examples?)
Assimlation (or what I mean by that word, defined above, there are probably other types) however is often pretty good in the short term for pop music it generates and envigorates. Its never fair, the innovators don't get the financial rewards - but thats show business.
btw, The North Sea analogy was (accidentally???) spot on - an over fished, homogenious area with fixed boundaries. I'm hoping that pop music finds some oceans to go exploring in.
What pop artists should go rummaging into the margins and what should they bring back?
― Tom, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Also, I never considered Hard and beyond to be "commercial" attempts by the G04, but rather attempts to assimilate commercial innovation into their underground sound for artistic rather than monetary purposes.
I never did the Kenosha Kid.
Wuz "Try Again" entry of assimilation? Um, I don't think it was either of them. I wasn't suggesting the two mechanisms were the complete theory of how all pop music comes into being.
Howabout "Firestarter"? Mostly neither too, they were hardening their sound for their stadium rock / festival gigs but its mainstream rock they are pulling into the mix.
Howabout "Pepper" by the butthole surfers? Dunno.
Howabout Doctorin' The Tardis? Entryism. Perfectly.
Howabout PIL? Especially after Metal Box and the Death Disco singles I would say neither. If Lyndon had wanted to slip subversive messages into mainstream music he would have recreated the Sex Pistols. So neither, slightly confused by 'corporate' stylings though (the band name, the first album cover art). Heaven 17 also mucked about with corporate imagery to even less effect.
Howabout Madonna? Ooh nice example, shes the assimilation master!. alt.country check! glitch? check! wheels on the bus go round and round infantilism? check!
Also, I never considered Hard and beyond to be "commercial" attempts by the G04 I don't think any of the entryist bands did it for commercial gain, not even KLF, they all had artistic points to make and did it for a wider audience (and it would be ego more than commerce anyway). And even from 'tourist' they were willing to go along (as far as 'packets' but not as far as 'rubbish'!!! grin)
― Mark Dixon, Monday, 12 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)
Did the Kenosha Kid?
Anyway, I think that any self-conscious notion of entryism was doomed to failure b/c the only thing defining an "alternative" is simply its exclusion from the center. Success de facto means selling out regardless of any change in the quality of the music itself. Any attempt to "out-appropriate" the appropriative machineries of the cultural massive is doomed to failure similarly. Like John Henry vs. the railroad.