Ridiculously Fast Hardcore drumming; who did it first?

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I'm not a drummer and although I play guitar, am not muso enough to name the beat, but it's that kind of machine gun, spazz jazz, attack.

Minor Threat used it(albeit 'slower' and tighter), Husker du did too, on Land speed record and then there was Die Kreuzen with their incredible 1st album . Some of the Boston bands like Jerrys kids employed it as did early DRI.Then you had kind of worse bands like 7 seconds, where it didn't really gel that well.

The kids still use it now. I'm intrigued. I'm English and am convinced it wasn't one of our piss poor second wavers like GBH or the Exploited et al. Any claims to the great stixman who layed it first?????

― Paul Nicholson, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

original drummer for Napalm Death (m. harris?) + og drummer for Bad Brains / DAVE LOMBARDO = ANSWER

― chaki, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My guess is that it comes from, of all places, prog-rock. Check, for instance, the fast part of King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man." And I'm sure there's at least a dozen other similar (pre-punk) examples.

― scott, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

is it not an old traditional polka beat with chugchugchugchugbleaaargh instead of the mandolins? or some old bluesy shite about a train ? or the first caveman ever who did something vaguely similar on his tama drumkit with zildjian cymbals?

― bob snoom, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Which is pretty cool when you think of it!

― scott w, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

roy orbison "pretty woman"

― bob snoom, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I maintain that the first blast beat appears at the end of (at least the live version) of the Doors' "Not to Touch the Earth."

― Jordan, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. Are you talking about the 80's hardcore beat that's just a really fast 1-2-3-and-4 "rock" (polka) beat, or are you talking about the blast beat, even-32th/64th note kick-snare fills of modern powerviolence? I'm pretty sure the latter came out of grindcore (Napalm Death), even though you can hear something similar in early black metal like Venom and (especially) Bathory, and even though some people claim the 80's Dutch band Larm invented powerviolence (I can't hear it though). But by your examples it sounds like you mean the former...if you can't stomach the idea of Wire as proto-hardcore (I certainly can't) I'd say the Bad Brains. Or maybe Motorhead! Rest assured GBH and the Exploited didn't inven't anything that didn't involve haircare.

― Kris, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Some idiot?

― Nude Spock, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh Christ that's funny.

― JM, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Tommy Ramone via Dick Dale's drummer/Ventures via Buddy Rich & Gene Krupa would be the traditional answer, I think. Probably some Motorhead, Judas Priest and Iron Maiden in there too.

― fritz, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The blast beat is like art: you may not be able to define it, but you know it when you see it. Working definition of 'classic' blast: Very fast tempo. Simultaneous kick and ride (or hat) alternate with snare.

― Ben Butler, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Kris nailed it -- Bad Brains, Pay To Cum.

― dan, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

DJ Fontana, on Elvis's "Hound Dog." Just listen to those fills. And let's not forget, oh, about fifty different jazz drummers. (That doesn't negate Bad Brains as a pick, either--they were fusion players before they went punk, let us not forget.)

― M. Matos, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Does the fact that they were fusion players make them a more legitimate choice than Minor Threat? DJ Fontana and Art Blakey and Elvin Jones and Rashied Ali did a lot of things, but "ridiculously fast hardcore drumming" is not one of them. I don't understand your point.

― Kris, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'll nominate Arthur Lee for the insanely fast (for the time) drumming on "Seven and Seven Is" by Love, apparantly so fast that Love's regular drummer couldn't cope so Lee did it himself.

― Rob M, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I would also suggest that a lot of the early 80s hi-NRG type records had ridiculously over-the-top bassdrum fills on their drum machine rhythms that might have had an influence, especially when they were used in many UK mainstream records such as New Order's "Blue Monday" and lots of the early (1984-85) Stock Aitken and Waterman productions, (with the likes of Divine, Dead or Alive, Hazell Dean, etc.) which ripped off both Bobby Orlando and "Blue Monday". I seem to remember a lot of the early metal records with ultrafast bass/snare runs came from Europe and the UK (eg Napalm Death) where these records sold well, and sort of appeared after they successful. Maybe it started off as a bit of a SAW pisstake? :)

Old Fart!!!!!!!!

― Old Fart!!!!, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Does the fact that they were fusion players make them a more legitimate choice than Minor Threat?

obviously I was kidding

― M. Matos, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"bad moon rising" creedence clearwater revival

― bob snoom, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

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