Search & Destroy: the Shoegazer Genre.

This thread was laid down solely as bait for me and Ned. Someone else can provide the blue writing.

The 4AD stuff mentioned is in a genre of its own: 4AD. Some might say Etherial, rather than shoegazer. Then again, some shoegazer is 4AD (e.g. Lush) but not all shoegazer is 4AD.

Although best shoegazer releases this year Mira and The Emerald Down.

For shoegazer/ dream pop 2001 see Dreampop

Except, as has been noted, it's happened already. Archives are your friend, Lord Custos. ;-)

If you wanna argue over whats shoegaze/dreampop/4AD you can try blisscent@yahoogroups.com which is pretty managable for a nearly 2000 person list.

emma

shoegaze 4ever ;-)

that said, yeah. some shoegazer stuff totally rules.

Destroy: Moose, Revolver

Curve were lumped in with the "shoegazers" initially....though I'd never call their music "dream pop". Blur were too, initially.

"Shoegazer" was, it should be noted, a term coined by the Brit music press, and it was intended as a pejorative.

and their first and second albums (XYZ and Honey Bee)
are counted among my favorites ever, and boast some really terrific songwriting.

granted the last album was a bit of a letdown, but even so...

i think i should make a Rough Guide to Moose once of these days. surely that'll win you over!

Lilys - The most underappreciate band of the genre. All Music Guides has two of their albums (In The Presense of Nothing / Eccsame The Photon Band) listed as the Top Shoegazing Albums of the Genre. Both albums are solid efforts from start to finish and worth a listen if you haven't heard them before.

The 27 Various - Most of their stuff is pretty forgettable and a lot of their music does not qualify as shoegazing. But they have one single, Turn On and On off the album Fine, that HAS to be one of the 20 best shoegazing singles ever.

Galaxy 500, Yo Lo Tengo - Two bands that may stretch the definition of shoegazing a little, but their is no question that both groups have an impressive body of work that falls somewhere on the shoegazing/space rock/dream pop map.

Sloan - Of course these guys are now a Power Pop/Garage Rock band, but I would argue that their 1st LP, Smeared, is as much shoegazing meets grunge as Curve.

The Veldt - Not as strong as some of the other bands listed above, but they put out some pretty decent dream pop/shoegazer albums in the early 90's.

The Rosemarys - A San Francisco band that I never see listed anywhere, but another group that put out listable shoegazer albums during the era's heyday.

Lenola - These guys are post-mortem, but they are very good and they sound more like Loveless than any other group I have heard this side of the millenium.

! I heartily disagree, in that the Veldt clean the Lilys, Sloan's and YLT's clocks handily from where I sit.

The All Natural discs are indeed all derivative and all good fun.

Actually, I am sticking to my now one-day-old theory espoused on another thread- based on a few listens to the self-titled Telescopes album- that The Notorious Byrd Brothers is, if not the first shoegazer album, a case of "anticipatory plagiarism." So I might add that to a Search Also list.

is it true they're putting something else out soon? i wasn't too impressed with high ball me, save for a few tracks (in particular the "reworking" of there's a place) but i've really grown to love the Polar (Polar Aim) records, especially the first one

For better or worse, I always have and always will be partial to bands (Lilys, 27 Various, and Sloan) who obviously listened to way too much Big Star and/or Replacements during their formative years. It was an extremely biased personal opinion and I take it back. And BTW, I was the 1st person to MENTION the Veldt in over three years of posts on this board, so I deserve a little more credit than the person who went 3 years w/o ever giving the Veldt any props and then jumps in and slams me for liking the Lilys more!!!

These were the deeper questions I was trying to ask:

Why are the 2nd tier UK shoegazers like the Pale Saints, All Natural Lemon & Lime Flavors, Adorable, Chapterhouse, etc. etc. etc. always mentioned while all the US/Canadian bands I listed above are rarely, if ever included?

Why is a band with so many non-shoegazer moments like Swervedriver so readily accepted in the genre while Galaxy 500 & Yo Lo Tengo aren't? (God forbid I mention Billy Corgan's band)

Why are Jesus and the Mary Chain and the Cocteau Twins mentioned as the seminal influences of the movement and why is Sonic Youth's Sister and Daydream Nation left out?

Frankly I thinking trying to compartmentalize the whole dream pop/shoegazer/space rock movement is a little ridiculous. When I'm listening to Seefeel or Flying Saucer Attack I know I'm listening to something that a lot more relevent to the genre than when I'm listening to say 3 Doors Down or the Backstreet Boys.

BTW: 1st shoegazing album... VU's White Light/White Heat

Hey sunshine:

http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~tewing/ned/n103.html

Written in 1999. And I've mentioned the Veldt on here PLENTY of times before, so no offense, but you're full of it. I'm always happy to welcome a fellow gaze fan -- and a fellow Veldt fan at that -- but you can stop trying to rewrite history.

while all the US/Canadian bands I listed above are rarely, if ever included?

You could have easily mentioned Alison's Halo, Closedown or Sianspheric as well, among others. Some mention them and some don't -- there is no such thing as an official history of shoegaze, and what you see as '2nd tier' may not be the same to others (Chapterhouse were easily one of the best bands of their time, put on a great live show at that). Also, overwhelming press coverage at the time was specifically focused on the UK bands, so it's not exactly surprising that they still get the majority of attention even in retrospect.

Why is a band with so many non-shoegazer moments like Swervedriver so readily accepted in the genre while Galaxy 500 & Yo Lo Tengo aren't? (God forbid I mention Billy Corgan's band)

Galaxie 500, if I may note -- and as for them, this review of mine specifically mentions shoegaze as a contemporary parallel, while there are a number of interviews with UK groups at the time where G500 were named as an inspiration/influence. YLT's own shoegaze connections via such things as the tour opening for MBV and their resultant albums have also been mentioned more than once in press stories and general comments over the moons. The Pumpkins connection is obvious. And that Swervedriver play 'non' shoegaze is important only if you think there's some sort of fixed template to rank the music by -- never has been, never will be.

Why are Jesus and the Mary Chain and the Cocteau Twins mentioned as the seminal influences of the movement and why is Sonic Youth's Sister and Daydream Nation left out?

Hardly. Sonic Youth got mentioned and namedropped A LOT by the end of the eighties/start of the nineties crowd.

Frankly I thinking trying to compartmentalize the whole dream pop/shoegazer/space rock movement is a little ridiculous.

Quite.

I came across this lovely thread when I did a search on Sundial, Shoegazing because Sundial by itself brought information, on well, sundials. I'm sorry for creating such a ruckus. After this, I will go back to my fantasy football league board and complain about the Rams not throwing the ball to Torry Holt around the end zone this season.

But for the record, I did not see the word shoegaze mentioned in that review you so kindly linked me to (although granted there were comparison to other bands in the genre) and considering that your list of albums included L7 and Dirty O' Bastard, I am assuming your album list wasn't not strictly limited to artists who had an affinity for mixing their fuzz and delay pedals with minor chords.

Nor did I see any of the bands listed in this shoegazing thread. The other thread only mentioned listed the Lilys with mostly negative information. I was feeling froggy and thought for posterity that I’d add some cool bands that I thought were missing. For future reference, you might want to put a disclaimer at the top of the page ranking all shoegazing bands in order so that no one accidentally comes in here and offends you.

and what you see as '2nd tier' may not be the same to others
Wasn't it already settled that MBV was the only 1st tier band….

Chapterhouse were easily one of the best bands of their time, put on a great live show at that
I'm glad you like them; I think their albums drag in a lot of places. I was a minor during their early 90’s so I can’t speak for their live show.

Personal opinions are just that, personal. I will always a softer spot in my heart for Going Blank Again than Loveless because it was the album that wouldn't put me to sleep behind the wheel when I was too stoned to drive home. Also, my original copy was on a cassette that seemed to be distorted in just the right places. My theory is that it got that way from of all the times I fast-forwarded through Making Judy Smile and rewound back to 0x4. Unfortunately my CD copy doesn’t sound nearly as good. All of these personal feelings wouldn’t make me go out in public and argue that Ride was more seminal than MBV.

I think at this point you are arguing just to show off how much obscure rock-n-roll knowledge you have. If you’d stop to read what I said instead of being so busy cutting and pasting my posts, you’d realize that I was making the exact same point. Maybe I'd be less offended by what you say if your name didn't remind me of Ted Nugent =-)

YLT, Sonic Youth, G500, Pumpkins
I wasn't trying to come off like I invented the idea; I just think they are too often excluded from Web Sites I find on shoegazing, e.g. All Music Guide's section on the Shoegazing genre. Speaking of AMG, WTF did they move the band’s discography off the 1st page?

Quite.
Thank you for agreeing with one thing I said, it takes away some of the sting from not knowing All Natural was a US band.

Actually, I like some traditional "shoegaze", things like the first couple Slowdive EPs, but I tire of it quickly after that. There's actually something that bothers me about some it, like they're not really trying and it's all going nowhere - it's like a heartless beauty. I don't necessarily need RAWK, but there's got to be a bit of propulsion.

Also Ned, I'm curious about your Slowdive descending from New Order comment as it bothers me somewhat. Are you talking about "Elegia" or something. Otherwise, I don't see it.

I think the reason North American bands don't get much attention is because the genre was "dead" before they even got started. Fair or not, there's something really uncool about being a North American shoegazer.

That said, have you heard "Ageless Beauty" by Stars? Is it even shoegaze? Because that's what I really like.

* Ride - Like A Daydream
* Chapterhouse - Pearl
* Swervedriver - Son Of Mustang Ford
* Slowdive - When The Sun Hits
* Lush - Sweetness And Light
* Catherine Wheel - Black Metallic
* Cranes - Tomorrow's Tears
* Telescopes - Everso
* Blind Mr Jones - Over My Head
* Pale Saints - You Tear The World In Two
* Ultra Vivid Scene - Mercy Seat
* Curve - Horror Head
* Revolver - Heaven Sent An Angel
* Moose - Suzanne
* Bleach - Shotgun
* Spiritualized - Anyway That You Want Me

I understand MBV didn't want to be part of this, which I consider wise. Still, Cranes instead of the Boo Radleys? (And I'm a huge Cranes fan.)

Anyway, listening to it now as a copy arrived courtesy of Ian W., who wrote the liner notes. It'll be nice to hear the Blind Mr. Jones track, as I never got that single and is as a result the one song on here I don't already have. ;-)

EARLY Boos should have been on there, surely. It's not like the band would deny it! Agreed on Spz, Drop Nineteens would have been nice. (I should note that the liner notes agree on the fairly amorphous 'what is/isn't shoegaze' thing to start with, so it's not like they weren't aware of it going in.)

Though not listed as such, the version of "The Mercy Seat" is the 12" version, which I have no problem with, but the original album version sounds a lot meaner and has that amazing slow burn solo (or at least has it more clearly in the mix).

Ah, see, you might want to look into that.

http://www.theskydrops.com/tour.htm

anyone heard?

:-D

Well, Mobile did FEEDBACK TO THE FUTURE in 2003. Stylus even reviewed it! Some overlap on the track listing as well. Ned, did you really miss this one?

Uh, yes?

Strangely enough I actually pulled out a Blind Mr. Jones EP (first one, I believe - it has "Over My Head" on it) just about a week ago after not hearing it since it came out. I remember quite liking it at the time it came out but now I just think "ugh, what a second rate Slowdive".

----

...you just pitch the word "shoegazing" into the search engine and voila!
Something like 3,000 entries pop up. yikes! I'll be up all night!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgvKPkFa27M
(used to listen to this one obsessively while drivng between UCI and NBPL. And one day there were all these wildflowers on the hillseide. I jumped out of the car and frolicked in them..Ah, memories ...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igMhJvP23M8
(And, here's someone else frolicking in the wildflowers!!! -- read the comments section on this one too, they're fun)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L4s00Fa2Hg
(they always were the kings of quirk. This video just confirms that. Wow, I'd forgotten how pure his voice is. Lovely!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Df_JW6DBnE
(oh, neat video. I don't think I've ever seen this one before. It does some interesting things with the usual shoegaze cliches)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtMqdHJtOro
(one of their better videos)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB8nCE2EoIw
(I know you've seen this a million times, but have fun reading the comments beneath it while it's playing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJwcvxTEsxI
(This is an amusing video. I wonder how many of them caught colds after it was filmed though!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9Su7bpEZKo
("give up the gardening?" -- hmmm -- I wonder what they mean by that...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYyqcVXfHRw
(never heard of them, but this is a neat song -- interesting accent too -- I wonder where they're from. Austria? Germany?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_XmH6C_3Zg
(my adoration of this band has diminished over the years, but this ep still kicks ass. Great drumming! Everyone compares them to Coldplay -- why? Is it because both have singers who can't sing? (sorry Mark ...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOrQVwC5v5I
(no, I am not trying to be Ian McCulloch, Im not Im not!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J-h01u4k9o
(this song still sounds great! the video is rather yummy too. Saint Andrew and his expensive teeth. Love the halo.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtvJRMRQAps
(Japanese shoegaze. This song has some interesting MBV sounds, though the video is nothing special)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE3ngnTSLMA
(I always thought that Joanna and I were on the same wavelength clothes-wise. Just about everything I've seen her wear could have easily come from my wardrobe, and vice versa. We both had the stripey mock-turtleneck thing going.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ymingO1kk
(hey, look! it's Shaun Ryder! Oh, no wait ... )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KdHLc9gi54
(and of course the keepers of the flame ....)
---

(this is pretty awesome stuff, incidentally)

I haven't heard any Loop. Are they recommended? How do they fit into the late-80's psych-rock canon?

Very. Check the archive threads, and especially the Peel Sessions comp Wolf Flow.

I still haven't found a record shop that sells any Catherine Wheel. Haven't their albums been reissued yet?

Ride: Sennen
Slowdive: Shine
Pale Saints: Throwing Back The Apple
Lush: Deluxe
Catherine Wheel: Crank
My Bloody Valentine: Only Shallow
Curve: Missing Link
Lush: Superblast
Malory: Sleeper
Ride: Unfamiliar
Adorable: Sunshine Smile
Chapterhouse: Pearl
Hartfield: Reason
Telescopes: Everso
Spiritualized: Any Way That You Want Me
Autolux: Blanket
)

spz video screams '1989 computer graphics'.

one more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o8oBKWjTK4
Pale Saints: Kinky Love

very early slowdive (ha ha):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWxgx8lp2b8