Is privileging inauthenticity the new rockism?

Answers
I think that was the rockism-before-last, not that rockisms ever really expire.
-- Tim (hopkinsti...), June 18th, 2004.

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All value judgements are rockist, including this one.
-- thing of thing (thingofthin...), June 18th, 2004.

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B-but if Rockism is rockism, and then anti-rockism becomes the new rockism, but neither of them expires, that means that everything which confronts rockism is doomed to be sucked into rockism's black hole, which then becomes so vast that everything else is forced to challenge it, thus also getting sucked in! Rock would quickly become as huge and all-encompassing as it already thinks it is! Why even propose such a model? Where is the Copernicus to tell rock that not everything revolves around it? At least 'Rock Around The Clock' put the clock at the centre of the universe. Where did that modesty go? Come back, THE CLOCK, all is forgiven!
-- Momus (nic...), June 18th, 2004.

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(At least THE CLOCK has a pendulum which swings back and forth, allowing authenticity and inauthenticity to take turns at being -- if they really insist -- the 'new rockism'.)
-- Momus (nic...), June 18th, 2004.

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The question assumes the existence of such things as authenticity and inauthenticity, and is therefore rockist.
-- Jonathan Z. (zin...), June 18th, 2004.

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Jonathan wins
-- Dadaismus (kcoyne3...), June 18th, 2004.

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This thread has been rocked by a moderator.
-- Momus (nic...), June 18th, 2004.

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Momus snatches victory from the jaws of defeat
-- Dadaismus (kcoyne3...), June 18th, 2004.

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This thread has been mocked by a rocker.
-- Apostrophe Catastrophe (masonicboo...), June 18th, 2004.

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ilm in circling drain shocker.
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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The argument against rockism simply substitutes the authenticity/inauthenticity binary with other, ever more sophisticated binaries. The search for authenticity is not, on a higher ontological plane, a really 'authentic' experience after all. It's like the postmodernist moviemaker articulating in his movies that movies are just projected images on a wall (this is supposed to be the new 'real' way of understanding them). Ultimately, you can't escape the concept of the authentic (even if you can never nail it down either).
-- man who told the world (manwhotol...), June 18th, 2004.

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This thread has been mocked by a plumber
-- Dadaismus (kcoyne3...), June 18th, 2004.

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This thread has been fucked by a mimetic irrelevence.
-- Sick Mouthy (auspiciousfishN...), June 18th, 2004.

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"Ultimately, you can't escape the concept of the authentic"
Richard Rorty to thread.

-- Jonathan Z. (zin...), June 18th, 2004.

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But we already know there are multiple rockisms, some of which are anti-rock. Does that help?
-- Tim (hopkinsti...), June 18th, 2004.

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Rockism can be defined as "credulity to meta-narratives".
-- Sick Mouthy (auspiciousfishN...), June 18th, 2004.

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Agreed, sick mouthy person. My point is that there will ALWAYS be some level of meta-narrative at which we stop, consciously or unconsciously. Otherwise the attempt to assert anything becomes meaningless. So essentially, the anti-rockist is simply saying: "the meta-narrative that I believe in is far more superior to the meta-narrative you believe in."
-- the man who told the world (manwhotol...), June 18th, 2004.

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Oh brother. Not a new version of the "bbbbut if we don't believe in objectivity then communication becomes impossible!" canard again.
-- Michael Daddino (epicharmu...), June 18th, 2004.

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Jess in OTM shocker.
-- Tim (hopkinsti...), June 18th, 2004.

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some day you'll all learn. now let's all go get ice cream.
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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the anti-rockist is simply saying: "the meta-narrative that I believe in is far more superior to the meta-narrative you believe in."
With better grammar, one hopes.

-- Momus (nic...), June 18th, 2004.

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Mmmmmmm ice cream.
-- Tim (hopkinsti...), June 18th, 2004.

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If you don't claim a truth value for an argument, what is the value of the argument? I don't think that's a "canard". If it is, it's one that doesn't seem to have been decisively resolved since Plato first posed it. It is not an argument that necessarily leads to a pro-objectivity position, but it causes great difficulties for radical relativism.
-- the man who told the world (manwhotol...), June 18th, 2004.

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Where is the Copernicus to tell rock that not everything revolves around it?
-- Momus
Copernicus was a coward, withholding his theories! He was afraid to rock even the boat! Now Kepler, on the other hand, rocked.

-- the music mole (colinsbarro...), June 18th, 2004.

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"All truths are relative (including the one expressed in this proposition)"
Is such a proposition logical? If not, can it be meaningful?

-- the man who told the world (manwhotol...), June 18th, 2004.

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I think you know the answer to that, Mr Rhetorical Question.
-- the music mole (colinsbarro...), June 18th, 2004.

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Do I really want to go on ILM and re-hash the same retarded arguments I had before I studied philosophy? NO I DON'T I FUCKING THINK SO.
-- Michael Daddino (epicharmu...), June 18th, 2004.

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dude, what if, like, the whole universe is just, like, an atom...in, like, a dog's tail?
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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But Jess...is the red I see the same red you see?
-- Michael Daddino (epicharmu...), June 18th, 2004.

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Dude, what if what is green to me is, like, red to you? (haha x-post)
-- the music mole (colinsbarro...), June 18th, 2004.

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i hereby declare that anyone seriously continuing discussion is declaring themselves ABOVE ICE CREAM and therefore actually below contempt
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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And Daddino plays the "I have a superior education therefore I won't answer the question" card!
Well it's a question that many people who not only have studied philosophy but also teach it tackle. Scruton uses it against Rorty, by way of a response Rorty uses the mind-bending "it's pragmatic sometimes to talk about truth even if truth doesn't exist" answer, etc. etc.

-- the man who told the world (manwhotol...), June 18th, 2004.

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And Daddino plays the "I have a superior education therefore I won't answer the question" card!
Like DUH.

-- Michael Daddino (epicharmu...), June 18th, 2004.

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I think you all need a dose of Australian Direct Realism.
-- the music mole (colinsbarro...), June 18th, 2004.

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http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=2&q=rockism&mode=threads
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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(x-post)
In a wafer cone.

-- Michael Daddino (epicharmu...), June 18th, 2004.

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ILM retard in "I'VE CAUGHT YOU OUT THIS TIME" non shocker
-- Ronan (ronan.fitzgerald6NOSPA...), June 18th, 2004.

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http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=2&q=rockist&mode=threads
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=2&q=inauthentic&mode=threads
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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-- the music mole (colinsbarro...), June 18th, 2004.

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http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=2&q=false+consciousness&mode=threads
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=2&q=objectivity&mode=threads
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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uhhh.. Tycho Brahe?
-- Ian c=====8 (johni72...), June 18th, 2004.

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Tycho Brahe had a false nose, not a false consciousness.
Slow down Jess, we're all reading.

-- the music mole (colinsbarro...), June 18th, 2004.

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http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=2&q=subjectivity&mode=threads
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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"ILM retard in "I'VE CAUGHT YOU OUT THIS TIME" non shocker"
It's like being in a school playground. Anyway thanks Strongo for the reading matter. Pip pip!

-- the man who told the world (manwhotol...), June 18th, 2004.

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Hang on, I've found it:
Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated.

-- the music mole (colinsbarro...), June 18th, 2004. (tracklink)

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I can never fucking tell if I've been dissed on these boards.
-- Michael Daddino (epicharmu...), June 18th, 2004.

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http://ilx.wh3rd.net/searchresults.php?board=2&q=cheap+trick&mode=threads
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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A bit more Lionel Trilling and a bit less of the old Rorty-Scruton might help this conversation.
-- Momus (nic...), June 18th, 2004.

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This is sorta like an ILX version of those Family Ties episodes where the family gets locked down in the basement and they start reminiscing about events in past episodes.
-- Michael Daddino (epicharmu...), June 18th, 2004.

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jess is michael j fox
-- Ronan (ronan.fitzgerald6NOSPA...), June 18th, 2004.

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Andre 3000 featuring Michael J Fox-"We Are Republicans"
-- Ronan (ronan.fitzgerald6NOSPA...), June 18th, 2004.

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Mmmmm raspberry ripple, AND a bag of chips.
-- Tim (hopkinsti...), June 18th, 2004.

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basement jaxx f nate dogg - video killed the radio star 04
-- trife
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basement jaxx f toby keith - iraq
-- trife

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basement jaxx f benzino and lou bega - welcome to the terrordome
-- trife

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basement jaxx f ludacris and trick daddy - talk like sex pt iii
-- trife

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basement jaxx f ilx choir - we are the world
-- trife

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basement jaxx f trina & missy - age of aquarius
-- strongo hulkington

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basement jaxx f 702 - up, up, and away (in my beautiful balloon)
-- strongo hulkington

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basement jaxx f r kelly and good charlotte - stairway to heaven
-- trife

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basement jaxx f ja rule - inka dinka doo
-- trife

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basement jaxx f marilyn manson - only women bleed
-- strongo hulkington

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basement jaxx f vangelis - miami vice theme song
-- strongo hulkington )

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basement jaxx f avril lavigne and xzibit - gangsta boi
-- trife

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basement jaxx f busta and lou rawls - i know u got soul
-- strongo hulkington

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basement jaxx f daft punk - RUN HIPSTERS RUN
-- trife (...)

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basement jaxx f nas - made u look (bongoloid remix)
-- strongo hulkington

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basement jaxx f prince - 2 u 4 u by u 2
-- strongo hulkington )

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basement jaxx f ginuwine - dirty deeds done dirt cheap
-- trife

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basement jaxx f fat joe - your body is a wonderland
-- trife

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basement jaxx f kelly osbourne & mandy moore - girls just wanna have fun
-- g--ff c-nn-n

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trife f kelly osbourne - uh yeah im in basement jaxx, cmere and uh audition into my parlour
-- trife

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basement jaxx f jay-z - u better work (covergirl)
-- strongo hulkington

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basement jaxx f uncle kracker and force mds - love train
-- trife

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basement jaxx f dave matthews - law and order theme
-- g--ff c-nn-n

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strongo f mandy moore - strongo wants sex (remixed but still horny)
-- strongo hulkington

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basement jaxx f noreaga - things that make you go hmmm
-- trife

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basement jaxx f tricky - my iron lung
-- strongo hulkington

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STRONGO WANT SEX
-- trife (...)

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basement jaxx f beenie man - my favorite things
-- strongo hulkington

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basement jaxx f dc talk and the xecutioners- (dont you) forget about me
-- trife

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i think we've moved into double cd territory now
-- strongo hulkington

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strongo f trife - thread wrekkaz
-- trife

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basement jaxx f david gahan - are you gonna go my way
-- g--ff c-nn-n (

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gff stop trying to jump on the punk funk electro bandwagon
-- trife

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(basement jaxx f common - funky cold medina 3000)
-- trife

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basement jaxx f common - octopuses garden
(haha x-post supreme)

-- strongo hulkington

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I'm spent.
-- strongo hulkington

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wtf is octopuses garden?? i exhausted my obscure rock knowledge with 'dirty deeds done dirt cheap'
-- trife

-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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radiohead featuring r kelly-SEX AND SUN
-- Ronan (ronan.fitzgerald6NOSPA...), June 18th, 2004.

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gene simmons ft. buckfunk 3000 - "answering machine"
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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Okay, I withdraw the bit about there being a 'conversation'. Ice cream it is.
-- Momus (nic...), June 18th, 2004.

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momus featuring grooverider and the boston pops - "smack my bitch up"
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl...), June 18th, 2004.

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morrissey and momus-the eminem show
-- Ronan (ronan.fitzgerald6NOSPA...), June 18th, 2004.

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Joni Mitchell ft. Da Brat - "single Bed"
-- Michael Daddino (epicharmu...), June 18th, 2004.

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strongo f ronan & mike d - beating a dead horse
-- Ian c=====8 (johni72...), June 18th, 2004.

Jerry Garcia: "When I hear the word 'culture,' I reach for my guitar."

I didn't think so, either. But I guess it was. Either that, or it was the wrong kind of dumb, because dumbness is quite prized around here, most of the time.