Are today's Iron & Wine fans yesterday's Pavement fans?

Konzert-Bericht

Don't Call It A Comeback

Stephen Malkmus

Köln, Prime Club
06.02.2001
Vielleicht hat sich Stephen Malkmus an den
erschreckend langweiligen Auftritt Pavements vor
knapp zwei Jahren im Kölner Gloria erinnert und
meinte etwas gutmachen zu müssen, vielleicht ist
er jetzt einfach auch entspannter. Wie dem auch
sei, Steve und seine exzellente neue Band lieferten
im Prime Club im Jahre 1 nach Pavement eine
großartige Show ab.
Auch wenn er mit Bassistin Joanna Bolme, Drummer John
Moen und Multi-Instrumentalist Mike Clarke (der Mann
spielte alles von Steel-Drums über Gitarre bis hin zum
Keyboard) gerade einmal vier Auftritte absolviert hatte -
von ein paar Endings abgesehen - schien bereits blindes
Verständnis bzw. Vertrauen auf der Bühne zu herrschen.
Die entspannte Stimmung der Show passte ausgezeichnet
zu dem lockeren Feeling der neuen Platte, die natürlich
einen Großteil des Programms ausmachte und mit "Jenny
And The Ess-Dog" auch einen potentiellen Single-Knüller
enthält. Dazu hatte Steve im Interview bereits eine Reihe
Coverversionen versprochen, und die hätten obskurer
kaum sein können. Stücke von Mellow Candle, JK & Co
oder Fairport Convention haben die Jicks derzeit im Programm und dennoch
zeigten sie in Köln auch, dass sie trotz der unrockigen Platte gerne mal die
Verstärker auf "11" drehen. Dazu durften dann "Alien Boy" von den Wipers und
das als letzte Nummer heruntergerotzte "That's What Mama Said" von Coloured
Balls herhalten.

i've never heard iron and wine. i loved pavement in 94. i'm listening to about the same ratio of intense abrasive music and mellow downtempo music as i did back then.

Part of what's going on here is that I'm in the demographic I'm talking about. Maybe everybody overestimates the importance of their own niche. But I do feel like if I walk down the street in, say, Park Slope, half the people I see will be Iron & Wine fans who used to listen to Pavement. Perhaps I'm projecting?

It's true that the past few years of Drag City releases haven't interested me as much as the stuff they used to put out, but I don't know if other '90s people are "growing along with the scene" in a way that I'm not, or if labels like DC are just appealing to a new group of "mellower" kids.

But this is a good question: Who is the new Pavement? In the sense of: Who is the band that defines what an indie-rock band is in 2004, with critical love and a somewhat large fanbase? My first inclination is Death Cab for Cutie.

it's always kinda been one, and that's fine.

Iron & Wine are terrible, imo.

http://www4.ncsu.edu:8030/~kacollin/cockfight.jpg

Iron and Wine fans:

http://www.cem.va.gov/images/cwsoldr1.jpg

somewhat different, one group filled with happiness and joy, the other one grimly marching towards oblivion.

Have other cohorts aged? Or have most previous ones just stopped buying music in large numbers?

Pavement was a pop band, and a pretty joyous one at that, most of the time. There could never be a substantial similarity between Pavement and ANY borecore emo group because those kind of bands are totally un-pop and anti-fun.

The Fiery Furnaces. No question about it.

Jaymc, to paraphrase a friend of mine, it's amazing how fast 'borecore' has become the most scathing thing that I could say about anything. As far as I'm concerned, the primary conflict in art right now is one of borecore vs. joycore, and in the indie world, the borecore people are winning.

Yeah, Beam is tuneful, sure, but Derek, you've got to admit, it's the difference between singing along while jumping on a bed versus singing along while drinking whiskey by yourself on a porch swing.

I like this idea. I've seen you use "joycore" on Fluxblog, but I wasn't aware it had a mortal enemy! But actually, it's something I've been noticing, too, especially among friends of mine as we get older.

I think there have been some great "joycore" releases lately, if we're talking in the indie world as it usually is defined. (All this talk about Belle and Sebastian lately makes me realize how I used to regard them as borecore, but "DCW" made me do a complete 180 on them)

Gear! not OTM re: Postal Service being boring.

I don't really think of borecore as being like a genre or anything - it's just a way of thinking or an aesthetic which informs all kinds of art and writing. Most emo strikes me as being inherantly borecore, because it revels in depression and impotence, and its fanbase seems to actively distrust fun and happiness and deny pleasure. Whenever I talk about joycore these days, it's almost always defined in my mind as being "not borecore."

THIS IS MADNESS.

Also Matthew, I'm sorry, but your joycore vs. boycore is a false dichotomy of Momusian proportions. Many of the bands you used to champion back in the day (but now only mention on your blog in order to parody) could be considered serious borecore by your own defnitions, possibly even progenitors of it (I'm looking at you, PEARL JAM and SMASHING PUMPKINS), and they weren't even significantly on indies! And if "borecore is winning," as you say, how do you explain the popularity of your blog?

The Animal Collective is more like the new Sun City Girls, maybe.

and no, I think gygax!'s Pavement comparison is more apt. The SCG seek to deconstruct pop (or maybe recontextualize it in a non-Western setting) in a way that AC don't, to my knowledge (admittedly I haven't heard their pop songs).

the latter is why I don't like Postal Service, btw...

antifolk/jewelled antler cdrs vs dipset/dsouth mixtapes... whatev

Most of the new folk stuff coming out these days is not depressing at all (with maybe the exception of Iron & Wine, but maybe it just depressed me because it was so bad). Listening to Six Organs or PG Six or any number of great folk bands (new being relative since both of those dudes have been doing things for a while now) doesn't conjure up depression in me as a listener at all.

And thus the assimilation of Thee New Folk America began...

i can't believe i read this entire fucking thread.

iron & wine are playing the khyber in philly tonight. the show is sold out. on the second floor of the khyber, the dj lounge, is a night devoted to spinning nothing but built to spill, beat happening and dub narcotic sound system. it is insanely packed.

make of this as you may....

in college, I listened to the palace brothers cd's all the time, and found special joy in lou barlow home recordings, too. both of which could be considered, I don't know, maybe somewhat borecore? but not "adult" like iron & wine. the absurd is an important ingredient.

You initial question was asking if today's I&W fans are yesterday's Pavement fans. Perhaps not directly, that does imply one band is an older trend and the other is the newer one.

It's not surprising to see people interpret it as such, especially in a society where things need to be hypercommercialized to make them appear desirable. "The new ____" has always been an intrinisic part of rock and youth culture.

But i'm going to put aside the semantics argument for a moment to refocus on your question and try to remark on a couple of interesting comments from this thread.

Paraphrasing Mark, he stated "Many I&W fans were not around at the time of Pavement," meaning that this is a whole new generational thing. I slightly disagree. I might be basing my own opinion on what I see in Philadelphia, but many people in the crowd at last nights aforementioned I&W show were between the ages of 25 - 35. These are people who could have [and did] see Pavement when they were still around. And if they didnt, they were keenly aware of the group.

They are also, bigger fans of I&W than any 19 year old i've met. [i work for a university and my workstudy kids are all pretty "with it" when it comes to music.] Actually, my kids have only "kinda heard about Pavement," so there's the generational gap. The only college kids I know who are familiar with both bands, work in college radio or harbor that same unhealthy obession with music that I did when I was their age.

Perhaps its more that quest for something "new" or "different" from whatever's being hyped in music circles -- a reaction to the post-punk blitz thats been crammed down fan's throats the last couple years than it is as a reaction to canonized indie rock bands like Pavement, Built to Spill, etc.

Not really...if you can prove that today's Iron & Wine fans did not grow up with Pavement then you can answer the question without knowing what happened to the Pavement fans.

And it gets labeled "New" because it's (nearly) all been done before in one form or another.

PAUL WESTERBERG RELEASES FOLKER, HIS FIFTH SOLO ALBUM!

Ex-Replacements frontman, PAUL WESTERBERG is one of the most notorious
figures and best lyricists in rock. Bringing us his greatest new material
since the critically acclaimed Stereo/Mono release, PAUL WESTERBERG will
continue said reputation with FOLKER, out on Vagrant this September.

Yes, he recorded and produced the entire record in his Minneapolis basement
studio. Yes, he plays every single instrument on the record. No, you should
not bother having any expectations 'cause we're sure they'll be blown.

"Maria's comment about the DJ spinning C. Johnson/D. Martsch is interesting to me because I actually sense a greater affinity between Iron & Wine and Built to Spill than I do I&W and Pavement."

but really it's all just indie-rock. the names of the fans and the bands may change, but the song remains the same.

what, like we're better dressers than him?

have you looked in the mirror recently? [collectively speaking, of course]

when i went to the radio station today i looked horrible. if i was 16 again, my parents would definately not let me out of the house [and i grew up in a very strict household]: ripped, repatched and cuffed jeans; a bright blue "baltimore" t-shirt that i "borrowed" from an old boyfriend years ago; old and gross converse low-tops and a big white belt. if i was standing in a rock club, i probably would have looked pretty fucking cool but this was lily-pulitzer-white princeton nj.

i dont want to turn this into I Love Fashion but part of the indie rock aesthetic is looking like a homeless person. do i need to sit you down and force you to listen to "ex-con" by smog on infinite repeat until you get the point?

i played it once today, i can play it again, young man. :)

i played it once today, i can play it again, young man. :)

Hey, that was a little jibe out of love for Doug....I'm a huge Built to Spill fan, and I find his apparent total lack of vanity endearing!

I dress okay, I think. (haha I think key words here)

but still, SWEATPANTS, that's a whole new level...

Anyway, I don't see any necessary correlation between yesterday's Pavement and today's Iron and Wine fans. I know plenty of Pavement fans who don't like I&W and some who do as well. Not to mention I know people who have always had pretty dull taste in music but seem to see Iron & Wine as something to listen to as their taste "matures."