The Scourge of Rockism

That crusty stuff on the soles of your shoes. Er, wait, I'm confusing substances.

I dont know what it means either. Mark S explained once.

Why do you feel the need to prevent that which is already endangered to the point of near-extinction?

LONG LIVE ROCKISM! DEATH TO POPISM!

Why, to prevent relapses. ;-)

Q2: Why does everything have to stand the test of time?
A2: Because albums that "stand the test of time" tend to stay in print, and are therefore easier to find, buy and enjoy.

Q1/Q2 are anti-rockist questions.
A1 = pluperfect rockism. "Album" was in fact the VERY FIRST WORD to be defined as "rockist" (by Pete Wylie of Wah! Heat). A2 = very anti-rockist (though spoiled by use of word "album": "LP" was the approved alternative back in the day — because it was merely descriptive).

Rockism = moralist. Anti-rockism = materialist. You can (easily) be anti-rockist and love nothing but rock. Wah! Heat were rock, after all. (However Wylie was swiftly proved to be a rockist heh.)

these wee uns (= tom and sterl) are like tots w.uzis in their use of the term, i'm afraid

Our calculations prove that the following threads are deemed rockist:

I hope my answer comes out centred

because then it will look poetic

np: Jethro Tull - Stand Up

(pant pant pant pant)
passes out from Mana depletion

Sorry, the centering was bothering me.

Is preference for left alignment rockist?

however it seems to be browser-sensitive

(2. Why is this thread not filed under 'Rockism'?)

I'd always perceived ILM to be of the aloof, anti-rockist school of journalism (the "enlightened" school, so to speak). Which always appealed so very much to me.

But the allegiances declared above tell a different story. But our numbers, what do you guys think is the ratio of rockists to anti-rockists on ILM in 2004?

minimalism

abstraaaaaact expressionism

warholism

Is it?

adultism

this is the place where the lolz are revealed

btw tho I think it's "postmodernism" not "warholism"

I believe it's spelled "Warcoholism"

Rockism comes full circle? Someone I knew from grad school posted this on FB, presumably without irony (if it's in keeping with everything else I have seen from him):

I've had it with this "culture" that awards participation medals and 7th-place ribbons- it's one part of myriad reasons why utter mediocrity is lavished with praise from vapid idealists. Here is reality: anyone can obsess their way into passable competence. A select few are truly great. For an object lesson, transform your day right now and click play on the video below.
THIS is greatness in the objective definition of the term when applied to the arts (which IS measurable and is NOT a matter of opinion, contrary to the arbitrary wishful thinking of this cesspool we call a culture.
If you somehow attempt to say this sucks or is anything less than extraordinary, you're an idiot. Plain and simple. You may not personally care for the style, but to extend that into "therefore they're not utterly brilliant," you are an abject moron or physiologically unable to actually listen to or perceive the piece.
Time to stop lying to people by telling them that as long as they put their mind to it they can do anything. By all means, make the attempt. But do so with the understanding that you may simply not have the capacity to reach this level of craftsmanship. That is reality. Whether it hurts feelings is meaningless.
This is the pinnacle of songwriting craftsmanship, it is and SHOULD BE recognized as the rare thing it is, and people who say it sucks should be ignored and ridiculed.

The video: "SOS" by ABBA (live in Japan)

the demand for the objective in the aesthetic is as old as criticism I guess; only the exemplars of objective greatness change

Is the transvaluation of all values merely an inverted image or an unforeseeable refraction? Will we ever overcome this controversy? Am I turning into an old coot?

In a just universe, the target of the link that followed that screed would change targets randomly on each click.

Alternately, no link at all would be an equally fitting placeholder.

in a just universe, the target of the link that followed that screed would be 'never gonna give you up'

Ha, I was about to post the same thing.

It reads like copypasta.

I do like that song but it's a slim reed on which to build the revitalization of our culture

Pretty sure it's, um, authentic. He expanded on his thesis at length in the comments, touching on how the American Dream (epitomized, presumably by 70s Swedish pop) has been perverted into a pipe dream by political correctness, how "the witting or unwitting subversives amongst us who degrade objectivity into the fantasy world of relative truth".
xp

Sorry, how *it is* "the witting" etc. And there should be a comma after "presumably". Don't want to start degrading English grammar.

I don't know a thing about songwriting, but the epitome of craftsmanship has always been the Original Amish Fireplace.

https://amishfireplacedirect.com/product/amish-fireplace/

I heard this on the radio yesterday: DJ backanouncing Killer by Adamski and Seal. "Thats Killer, from back when music was real, and synths sounded like real synths". I suppose you can be rockist about anything?

Abba = high level of musical training and compositional/arranging skill = classic rock

If rockism isn't strictly the preserve of rock enthusiasts, perhaps the term needs an update.

xxpost:

It's called Old Fart's Disease (OFD) as frequently seen at the Steve Hoffman Retirement Home for Lovers of Real Music.

.. or just conservatism?

I'm pretty sure there's a post by me somewhere from the early 00s where I tried to argue that "conservatism" was a better term for whatever it was we were trying to talk about.

It makes sense, but it's a tad too broad. And I'm not sure it captures the absolutist nostalgia that lies at the heart of so-called rockism. Conservatism isn't necessarily irrational, at least in its more moderate form.

Yeah. Having a conservative attitude to rock is just a function of its ageing audience, isnt it? I'm sure we'll have people taking a reactionary attitude to current pop in a few years.

"Absolutist Nostalgia" is seems like great description of Brexit/Trump revanchism to me.

In a few years, you say

Turrican observed:
It's called Old Fart's Disease (OFD) as frequently seen at the Steve Hoffman Retirement Home for Lovers of Real Music.

Oh god yes, with thread titles like "Why were the 70s so perfect" and endless, endless Beatles-related threads.

And, you know, that's really ok. Find like-minded people and chat about your favorite stuff which happens to be decades old and you prefer to anything being created today. The problem, of course, is just like religion: when you think you have all the answers and anyone who disagrees with you or has a different preference is *wrong*.

Mozart and Beethoven aren't exactly new chart entries either. And lord knows I've heard concert-goers criticize the choice of Mahler over the giants of the genre. So it happens everywhere.

As far as ageing goes, I don't know, in some ways I'm far less rockist than I used to be, though I've remained wary of pure aesthetic relativism, or rather I sometimes find popism to be as exclusionary as its perceived nemeses. I don't personally know anyone who listens to more than, say, two overwhelmingly popular genres of music at a time, which is testament to the bafflingly homogenous offerings—in light of the dizzying varieties of music that exist in our century—pop culture thrives on. Not that this wasn't always the case, mind you, but I do feel like pop music in 2017 requires far less championing than other genres. If anything, 60's and 70's classic rock worship is now a (thankfully) marginal phenomenon, or so it seems to me.

Alex Ross, for instance, wrote this back in 2005: 'I'll repeat my outré contention that classical music, for all its elite trappings, is actually a radical, disruptive force in American culture, whereas most popular culture, for all its rebellious trappings, is intensely conservative.'

Self-awarness would help these grand pronouncements as well. Absolutism is foolish, how anyone in this small-big world thinks their taste is the pinnacle of human achievement and not just their preference is beyond me.

Of course it's silly, but a slightly more charitable reading would see in it a desire to impress value upon the object of aesthetic desire, perhaps even a willingness to create a community based on said value, even as it excludes others in the process. Politically, it's a problematic gesture, to say the least, but it's not utterly devoid of meaning.

It's called Old Fart's Disease (OFD) as frequently seen at the Steve Hoffman Retirement Home for Lovers of Real Music.

― ...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Monday, April 10, 2017 4:23 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Damn straight, I just discovered Steve Hoffmann forums and wish I hadn't started up here. They may not be quite as smart but they aren't broken creeps like the swine on ILM. I tried for 20 years with positive and encouraging comments, got a lot of attitude in return. See y'all later

― Iago Galdston, Sunday, April 2, 2017 5:33 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Abba = high level of musical training and compositional/arranging skill = classic rock

Musical training?

Benny no doubt had a few piano lessons as a kjyd.

I wondered about that too, both how it related to ABBA and how it related to classic rock, more generally.

Maybe classic rock is being confused with prog rock? Though most prog rockers never had high levels of musical training either.