Does anyone here own or work at a record store in America?

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I'm seriously considering opening up a small record shop. Right now it's in the very first beginning level of the planning stage. I'm just looking into and considering all that would be involved.

I'm curious, what distributors should I use? For the most part I would like to sell indie musicians (for lack of a better word) and imported stuff vaguely along those vague lines. A very brief example of some personal favorites I would love to carry just to give an idea are Supersilent (or any Rune Gammafon band), Bulent, Thomas Brinkman, Fiery Furnaces, Frederico Aubele, All Night Radio, stuff from SOUL JAZZ, and Devandra Branhart. And of course more traditional people like Springsteen, John Fahey, the Beatles, and the Zombies. I've done a tiny little bit of searching around the web, but I haven't found much to work with.

Like I said, I'm just now starting to try and figure this out so I'm completely clueless about everything (except the actual business/marketing/'need to make a profit' aspects I guess).

Any other suggestions/warnings would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

― doobific_penguin (drpenguin5), Monday, 19 July 2004 02:23 (twenty-one years ago)

to make money you are going to have to sell a lot more than your "personal favorites"

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 19 July 2004 02:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I know that! I simply listed those bands to show that I'm not interested in selling, say, traditional Arabic music. To show the kind of store I'm thinking about. For the record, I'm also aware of just how little the bands I mentioned would sell. Like I said, right now I'm just looking at my options. How I'm gonna make money (or if it would even be possible) will be decided once I figure some things out.

― Nick Perich (drpenguin5), Monday, 19 July 2004 02:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Midheaven is still the big independent distributor (Revolver USA is now I believe included in it.) You'll probably have to do business with Valley Media or Ingram or one of the big industry distro guys (if Valley even has any competition any more) if you want to carry any major label product and they will do their best to screw you pricewise cuz well they can. I don't know how willing record shop owners are going to be about giving up the names of their smaller distributors (esp. to someone who might potentially be a competitor.) I'd try using google to search and them either request a catalog (or view an online one.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 July 2004 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks a lot. I was looking around at Midheaven, but I hadn't seen anything about Valley or Ingram yet.

As for me being competition...haha. Right now this is so hypothetical it probably won't happen for at least a couple years. However, other people around here might be a little more serious, so I understand if people don't want to give up their connections.

― doobific_penguin (drpenguin5), Monday, 19 July 2004 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

open near a college; pander to them

― TheRealJMod (TheRealJMod), Monday, 19 July 2004 03:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, that's exactly what I was thinking of doing (and the only reason I think this idea might have a chance of working out someday). As it turns out this college that I'm thinking about has over 20,000 students, but no real record store in the whole city. Just a convenience store that also carries a couple hundred CDs. It's a cool place, compared to the only other option of the mall, but as you can imagine the selection is a bit lacking.

― Nick Perich (drpenguin5), Monday, 19 July 2004 03:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Do small record shops ever make money?

― Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 19 July 2004 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

isn't the market kind of desperately poor for record shops right now? they are closing everywhere.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

You'll probably have to do business with Valley Media ...

Didn't Valley go "south" a few years ago?

― Venus Glow (1411), Monday, 19 July 2004 05:03 (twenty-one years ago)

You should sell used stuff. Thats how the stores make money I think, isn't it?

― artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 19 July 2004 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I woulda thought the second hand places have been hit exceptionally hard by ebay. Plus all the serious diggers spend money in charity shops, not record stores...

― Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 19 July 2004 05:28 (twenty-one years ago)

What is a charity shoppe?

― artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 19 July 2004 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

A thrift store.

― nickn (nickn), Monday, 19 July 2004 05:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh ok. I bought some Echo and The Bunnymen and Morris Day and The Time tapes ar a thrift store once.

― artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 19 July 2004 05:58 (twenty-one years ago)

And do people really regulary find good stuff at thrift stores? You hear about the occasional mother lode, but I can't remember the last time I saw anything even half-way desirable at one. I always look, because ya never know, but I'm always disapointed.

X-post, yeah, the occasional back-catalogue collection filler, but as an ongoing source?

― nickn (nickn), Monday, 19 July 2004 05:59 (twenty-one years ago)

to get good stuff from charity / thrift stores, tou have to be seriously dedicated - i.e. searching every saturday for a few hours

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Monday, 19 July 2004 10:44 (twenty-one years ago)

You couldn't have picked a worse time to open up a record store.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Monday, 19 July 2004 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I simply listed those bands to show that I'm not interested in selling, say, traditional Arabic music.

I think there's a big untapped demand for this in the U.S.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 19 July 2004 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Something you read a lot now is that you have to sell something other than just records if you want to survive. DVDs, t-shirts, candy, skateboards -- something with a better margin.

― Mark (MarkR), Monday, 19 July 2004 12:15 (twenty-one years ago)

There are a number of independent record stores in center city Philadelphia that sell electronics on the first floor (sometimes including DJ equipment) as well as CDs and some DJ vinyl. Usually they have a strong hip-hop section, but I can think of at least one case where the selection goes well beyond that.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 19 July 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

(And some have been around for a couple decades.)

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 19 July 2004 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

open near a college; pander to them

this is horrible advice.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I simply listed those bands to show that I'm not interested in selling, say, traditional Arabic music.

And WHAT, dare I ask, is wrong with Traditional Arabic music?

― ___ (___), Monday, 19 July 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Nothing at all is wrong with traditional Arabic music. And I don't really see how because I say I don't want to sell it, that automatically means I've got something against it. It's just that Arabic music is something I'm just now starting to delve into, so I don't think I'd be able to do it justice selling it. Though personally, I'm more into traditional music from South America than the Middle East.

― doobific_penguin (drpenguin5), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

oh man college-campus-leeching record stores are the PITS. record exchange in middletown anyone? with 10-year-old copies of dokken cds languishing in the racks?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

also reckless records in evanston closed after 2 (?) years = college campus not reliable consumers of good music

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

the college thing is a TOTAL red herring. the only way to survive as an indie record store right now is a. find a niche, b. be an existing, established store, c. cater to the 30+ audience (i.e. the ones with no use for mp3's, the ones who will appreciate a full spate of jimmy buffett or allman bros cd's), or d. sell the stuff that can't be bootlegged (easily, yet) - dvd's, merch, posters, t-shirts, hello kitty crap, kids stuff, video games.

― jess, Monday, 19 July 2004 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

(my store only survives through the last three.)

― jess, Monday, 19 July 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't know if there's ANY plausible model for a successful indie record store at this moment, except for jess's (b) but even that... so many established stores have closed in the last decade. i'm just speaking from my own limited experience, mostly in chicago, so many where jess is things are a bit brighter.

"weekend" in chicago seemed to have a niche something fierce (albeit with inevitable overlap w/dusty groove and reckless to some extent), and it died.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

college campus not reliable consumers of good music

exactly.

"weekend" in chicago seemed to have a niche something fierce (albeit with inevitable overlap w/dusty groove and reckless to some extent), and it died.

they overlapped more with Gramaphone, I'd say. I'd guess their problem wasn't so much lack of interest or competition as much as keeping good stuff in stock.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i do have to say that working at a record store has made the "death of brick and motar record stores in the next ten years" theory seem all the more plausible. selling 40 copies of something (in a town of 30-40k, being the only "real" record store within an hour or so) is a major success.

― jess, Monday, 19 July 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

it's all about the scope of stock (catering to more than one clientele, variety, hard to find, vinyl) and the customer service.

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 19 July 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

but the internet is the world's best method (well, a very good method) of finding used vinyl.

hstencil is right, weekend's focus on 12"s did place them in "competition" with gramaphone. i actually found the place way too narrow to be interesting. they tended to run out of stock on the more interesting new stuff, and then had a base of not-terribly-interesting stuff that never seemed to rotate.

i don't know if reckless is doing well at the moment, but they seem to be. i would study reckless if you're interested in opening an indie record store. it's pretty much ideal, i think--no where near perfect, but most record stores are the absolute pits (this is a certifiable fact).

new york/london/paris/tokyo can sustain places like other music, etc. but most town's can't. even the cambridge (mass.) other music went belly up.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, and Other Music was considering a Chicago store for a while, but decided against it.

Don't be fooled by Reckless, tho. They've had some bad spots, and their (relative) success in Chicago has been offset by store closings elsewhere.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

sadly so

xpost

― kephm, Monday, 19 July 2004 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Other Tips:

open up an e-commerce website too - don't limit yourself just to shop customers.

Provide a regular weekly opt-in e-mail Newsletter for new releases - also encourage your store customers to register for this.

Offer a Pre-Order section on your website, with information about forthcoming albums - surprisingly not many retailers do this or do it well.

Offer a special ordering system for your shop customers - for items you don't stock.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

work heavily with labels directly or distributors to pass discounts along to your customers is a good idea, too.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

i was talking yesterday with a friend about how "finding services" are sort of obsolete, except for (pardon the slur) geezers who don't use the internet.

tower records on clark/belden still advertises that their classical department can "find anything you're looking for." but they seem to have basically given that up in practice--they don't even have people staffing the kiosk in the classical room most of the time. there are still some smart people in the downtown store, but the few times i saw anyone working the classical department in the flagship store, they didn't actually know anything about classical music.

this is just to say that the internet provides a much more powerful method for anyone--ANYONE--to find a foreign release or out of print title than even record stores could claim 10-15 years ago. the best record stores seem to realize this and concentrate on providing a spectrum of interesting titles for reasonable prices (Dusty Groove) rather than boasting of their ability to find you some obscure title at a grossly inflated price (Vintage Vinyl in Evanston, hack hack).

to sidetrack a bit, Facets in Chicago built their reputation having an extremely diverse and deep catalogue of films from around the world. But now that that role is somewhat obsolete, they haven't found another one and still in fact seem to be stuck in an older way of doing business. Hence they offer, in their catalogue, various DVDs from France (presumably they will special order them, and don't have them in stock)... for like $70-80 each, which is outrageous. Anyone with any internet savvy can find the DVDs for less than half that. The days when people will pay record/video stores high premiums for their ability to track down this or that obscurity seem to be just about over.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Dusty Groove's major advantage (and probably why they're leading their niche) is that they are distributors as well.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

they are also in league with the brazilian mafia

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

seriously, finding an underworld patron is key.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

shhhh! Rick might just have your kneecaps tapped, bro.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

wait, i could start a record store and get a mafioso to pay the pills for money laundering services?

― I CAN LEAD YOU THROUGH THE ZONE (ex machina), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

this all sounds like the script for an infomercial. ("i can't believe their prices are SO LOW.")

xpost

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Valley went out of business 3 years ago I think, they are still clinging to precious (ie, inventory=cash) backcatalog's of some well-meaning indie labels.

but enough of this east coast slant:
Amoeba ("a truly independent music store"; est. berkeley 1990) has opened stores in san francisco (1997) and los angeles (2002), the catalogs of which will probably dwarf any record store you have ever been in. there are rumors of them opening another store very soon.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, clearly in the case of Amoeba the lesson is THINK BIG!

It doesn't surprise me that Valley is no more, but I'm sure whomever has taken their place is just as venal.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

gygax! please take some geography lessons: Chicago is not on the East Coast.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

no, but you are, palooka.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I am currently on the WEST COAST of Manhattan, fool.

Chicago is on the WEST COAST of Lake Michigan.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:33 (twenty-one years ago)

do you need a hug?

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

no, just a new job.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

i like tower records a lot

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

tower records is from san francisco, california although they are chapter 11.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)

didnt they begin in sacramento?

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

nope, on the corner of bay and columbus in north beach (it's still there fwiw, what with the $19.99 list prices and "sale" items for $15.99).

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

There used to be Tower ads on tv here....

― I CAN LEAD YOU THROUGH THE ZONE (ex machina), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:29 (twenty-one years ago)

tower is chapter 11? that's depressing. did the one in boston ever reopen?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

There's a store for rent across the street from a school (K-high) - what do you think might sell well there?

― 57 7th (calstars), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

weed.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Drugs.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

amateurist, the Tower near me almost always charges about $4-5 more than any other source for CDs. What do you find to love about Tower?

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 19 July 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

well i think each tower is very different. the one on belden/clark in chicago has a pretty great selection of classical/jazz/blues/pop/etc., including some really random obscurities like compilations of 1930s hawaiian music from little hawaiian labels, stuff that doesn't even appear on amazon. maybe this kind of thing is why they are chapter 11 (sadly). they tend to be a bit more expensive that indie record stores (not really as expensive as you suggest, at least not in chicago) but not really more expensive than the other chain stores, which admittedly i completely avoid.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

my local tower records have huge selections. they buy lots of import dance from their distributor while our local indies are busy stocking up on kid606 and schematic artists. they buy tons of minor-label commercial rap (like southern mixtapes and whatever) while our indie store is stocking up on piles and piles of unsold roots and outkast and sage francis cds.

not that our local indie doesn't sell lots of kid606 and outkast and whatever but the tower people are a lot less ... um ... political? prescriptive? choosy? in the way they stock their sections. (ie one man's handpicked selection is another man's pile of crap, i'd rather the stores just buy two of everything and let me sort it out)

― vahid (vahid), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

is your local indie:

off the record

lou's

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 19 July 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Sam Goody's

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 19 July 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

you could probably just go to best buy instead of using distributors. have them order stuff for you, and mark it up from there.
then set up a taco stand with juice and coffee (t-shirts?) and have a specialised rack with just the titles you mentioned, plus tom waits- rain dogs and de la soul- three feet high and rising.
a recipe for success! and just live in your car! wait maybe i'm about to do this i think.

― duke advice, Monday, 19 July 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I've found some of the big stores/chains can be quite good depending on specific buyers. John from Bent Crayon in Cleveland used to work at a Borders in the area, imagine my shock seeing Faust and the like at Borders (circa 95?)

Likewise sometimes ILXor Paul is/was a buyer at Tower in NYC...

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Monday, 19 July 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, i remember a buyer at Wherehouse before it closed would order all of the best Aussie imports -- Radio BIrdman, the Saints, Beasts Of Bourbon, etc.

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 19 July 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

at newbury comics (granted its nominally an indie store, but it generally behaves more like a combo of tower and your local head shop) there were reams of rare UK stuff, including those really hard-to-find orange juice reissues which i have since sold for a small fortune on ebay. thanks newbury comics!

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

tower did begin in sacramento - it was a drugstore in the tower theater in the 50s.

― smirky, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 07:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I work at a small store in Georgetown and we've never been as busy as we are this year. We're flooded with customers almost every day (though that may have more to do with our location than anything else). Our layout is very simple-- just new and used CDs and DVDs (no t-shirts, vinyl, posters, etc. at all). We don't keep much in stock--what's on the shelf is more or less what we have, so we're placing orders all the time. That means my boss has to be on top of things every day, all day, but we have very little trouble selling what we supply and pay all our bills upfront, so we're in good with the distributors.
Our proximity to two universities helps, but the local hotels, restaurants, salons, etc. that we regularly sell to are far more reliable and profitable.
We're one of the only used stores in DC as far as I know, so that's where a lot (but not necessarily most) of our business comes from. We also have a decently sized import section. Those Cafe del Mar, Buddha Bar and Hotel Costes collections are some of our most popular sellers even though they cost twice as much as everything else we sell.

― lou (lou), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 07:18 (twenty-one years ago)

John from Bent Crayon in Cleveland used to work at a Borders in the area...

Magas used to work at the Borders on Michigan Avenue in Chicago.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I would like to take this opportunity to mourn the loss of good stores to hang out in. Kids used to skateboard over to the record store and browse the Testament LPs after school. Having a store that is conducive to kids hanging out would be good.

I live in the suburbs, a town with THREE colleges, and the 'indie-est' music that is sold in the local mom-n-pop is stuff like Fat Wreck and emo. I can't even get a Coltrane cd that's not For Lovers. The laughable vinyl section is $5 copies of scratched Mountain LPs, etc. But it's been in business for 20+ years.

― mcd (mcd), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't like it when skater kids are hanging out talking really loud and stuff in record stores, it harshes my buzz.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

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