Referencing the style of music you play C/D

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Some genres it seems you just have to explain to the audience what kind of music you're playing, others shy away from it. Manowar sang "The Gods made heavy metal, and they saw that it was good", yet Goth for instance only got a look in on that crappy Marilyn Manson video where his license plate said "Gothic Rock" or something equally dumb.
If old-school Metal is good at this, then what about Hip-Hop? An entire genre devoted almost entirely to telling you how great it is.

I ask this question because of the title of the up-and-coming Solex album "The Laughing Stock Of Indie" and the fact I discovered the Moldy Peaches the other week. Indie is, by default, not a very self-referential genre but is the hipster scene changing this?

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 09:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Referencing the style often makes a claim that this thing we're doing isn't just a dance craze, but a MOVEMENT, man ("Rock-n-Roll is Here to Stay," "Do the Reggay," "Sweet Soul Music," "Hip-Hop Hooray"). Indie, as kind of an anti-movement, seemed reluctant to make this claim, but I can think of examples from the 80s (X - "I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts" or the Replacements' "Left of the Dial"). Has there been an "Indie-Rock Hooray" or "Indie Inferno"? Now that the concept of indie is a winkable anachronism, I expect a lot more of this.

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 12:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Indie is, by default, not a very self-referential genre

in the 90's, at least, that is totally wrong. pavement made their career on indie self-reference (and also awesome songs).

― peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I don't know about any of that.

What I do know is, when I was placing my tracks on a MP3 site some years ago, I had to describe the music with reference to who it 'sounded like' Current musicians. By the time I'd finished my short list, I thought "You know, I don't even want to hear this myself looking at this list".

So, Big dud.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Classic if it's JSBX going "ROCK N ROLL!" or "I'm talkin' 'bout the BLOOOOOOZ!".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Peter OTM re Pavement. Malkmus may yet write "Indie Inferno" or its equivalent.

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

What genres have not yet had their own self-celebratory anthem? "Experimental Horse Music Hooray!"

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

GOTTA HAVE HOUSE ... MUSIC ... ALL NIGHT LONG. (move your body)
LOST IN HOUSE ... MUSIC ... YOU CAN'T GO WRONG. (move your body)

uhhhh

The answer is Sebadoh "Gimme Indy Rock" dicks.

― sexyDancer, Wednesday, 21 July 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah. duh.

"I Was Microhouse ... When Microhouse Wasn't Cool."

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think Pavement ever sang songs about Indie (Range Life maybe?). I know the Moldy Peaches are probably the biggest celebration of the genre as a genre though.

What other styles of music lack genre referencing?
New "Yeeeaahh, yeaaaahh heeeey heeeeyy Grunge is heeerreee to staaaaayyyyy" Answers!

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

And do the genres that do this seem to stick around longer than others? If you're always telling people how great the music they're listneing to is then you're always going to have people believe you. That's why people still dig Grandmaster Flash and Iron Maiden but not Ibiza Trance.

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I think post-rock needs its self-referencing anthem.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Post-rock around the clock tonight, I'm gonna post-rock-post-rock till broad day light...

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"So don't rock the jukebox ... play me a post-rock song!"

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"It's been a long time since I post-rock n' rolled..."

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Hip Hop to thread!!!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 14:22 (twenty-one years ago)

post-rock-rockin' on heavens door

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha, Chewie wins!

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

polvo - 'rock post rock'

― 6335, Wednesday, 21 July 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Related tangent cause I feel like asking questions and seeing what the folks here say:

A lot of Punk was concerned with whether or not it was actually Punk or Punk Enough. How is that kind of self-reference different?

i.e. If Hip-Hop is a genre largely dedicated to telling you how great Hip-Hop is (without having to argue that it is indeed Hip-Hop in the first place), then how did Punk wind up spending so much time actually trying to convince you that it's Punk? (Or, alternately, pointing out how silly that is a la Jawbreaker in "Box Car" -- "You're not punk, and I'm telling everyone. Save your breath, I never was one.")

I think, like briania said above, that referencing the style indicates belief in a movement rather than a "dance craze," and that certainly seems to be the case with punk, but why is the reference different?

I'd think Indie has more in common with Punk, so how does this affect it?

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

all songs should have Funkmaster Flex at the begining of the track telling us what genre it is. all!

― artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not sure either x or the mats were making any such claims with those songs. they're both rather defeatist songs, much more in tune with the anti-movement you suggest than with something like "sweet soul music."

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Ant music for sex people!
Sex music for ant people!

― tylero (tylero), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Defeatist anthems for a defeated movement!

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Are there any New Wave songs that actually reference "New Wave"?

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

A Descendents song does.... but that's PUNK

― I CAN LEAD YOU THROUGH THE ZONE (ex machina), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

next phase
new wave
dance craze
anyway

its still rock 'n' roll to meeeeee.

― peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I-iii wanna New-Wave-of-the-New-Wave all night ... and party every day!

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd900/d904/d90497csxld.jpg

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 21 July 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000035ZG.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg

― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.arfarfrecords.com/arfarf/aagifs/coversBig/38.jpg

― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

"A Descendents song does.... but that's PUNK"

The Dead Kennedys make the distinction too:
"We gotta show we're adults now. We're not a Punk Rock band. We're a New Wave band."

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

umm Duran Duran:

"I heard you making patterns rhyme like
Some NEW ROMANTIC looking for the TV sound"

- Planet Earth

― Crunk in Christ, Thursday, 22 July 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Indie is, by default, not a very self-referential genre

Yeah, it just makes obtuse references to the rest of popular culture.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Thursday, 22 July 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Peter OTM re Pavement. Malkmus may yet write "Indie Inferno" or its equivalent.

"The music scene's crazy
Band's start up
Each and every day
I saw another one just the other day
A special new band"

- Stephan Teh Malukumus, 1994

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 22 July 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I hate when a corny bad indie/emo shitdork band that sounds like Jawbreaker or Hot Water Music is all "WE PLAY *ROCKNROLL* MUSIC".

― I CAN LEAD YOU THROUGH THE ZONE (ex machina), Thursday, 22 July 2004 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

The Killers had that song "Indie Rock and Roll."

― nofrontin, Friday, 6 January 2006 06:42 (twenty years ago)

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