Bigger loser: Bono or Stipe?

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I'm going with Stipe. What an insufferable douchebag. Have you ever actually LISTENED to the lyrics to "Man on the Moon?" Jesus freakin' Christ.

At least U2 had War. That's a pretty great record.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Stipe is a way bigger loser.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Bono.

Stipe's costume is better.

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Bono looks like he'd at least be fun to get stupid drunk with, whereas Stipe would rather read poetry aloud in the kitchen.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

This is true. However, Bono had a mullet for 10 years.

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll take Bono's mullet over Stipe's stupid mop (circa Murmur and/or bald pate any day.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Bono, definitely. Sure, they both take themselves too seriously but at least Bono is half-aware that that's his problem.

mcd (mcd), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Stipe would spend a night drinking tea at a coffeehouse with Joan Osborne talking about Andy Kaufman, Bono would go to some seedy Eurotrash dive that has Bowie's Low on the jukebox and might even bring along Gavin Friday. Stipe loses!

Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Bono wouldn't really do that, though. He'd be at home with his wife working on some humanitarian speech, taking breaks to shop for sunglasses online.

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure their both insufferable assholes in person, but Stipe's been responsible for more interesting things (Being John Malkovich, Gardening at Night, Velvet Goldmine) than Bono ever will, plus he doesn't suck up to dullard politicians. Stipe wins.

Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 6 August 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Johnny Fever has it pretty much right.

danh (danh), Friday, 6 August 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

"wife"

phil d., Friday, 6 August 2004 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

"responsible"

Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:13 (twenty-one years ago)

plus U2 is better than R.E.M.

Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm, I'd go with Stipe over Bono. His politics would be less intrusive in conversation.
Is there anything to be said about the period when Stipe and Morrissey were "friends"?
Also, what happens if we add Sting to the mix?

paulhw (paulhw), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, what happens if we add Sting to the mix?

All previous answers would change to "Sting."

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Johnny hilarious, if not correct

Sting sucks - he sucks bad - but in the land of suckiness, Stipe is King Suck

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

For some reason I own six R.E.M. CDs, which is probably about three too many.

Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

six too many

I like Peter Buck though, for the record

roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Michael!

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno, I can't understand a damn thing either one of 'em says anyway.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Stipe would spend a night drinking tea at a coffeehouse with Joan Osborne talking about Andy Kaufman

wouldn't he be more likely to be cruising for twinks? sorry.

REM has 3 albums I really like though, U2 doesn't have any, a couple songs I like maybe.

AaronHz (AaronHz), Friday, 6 August 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I have fond memories of watching the Red Rocks video, with baby Bono in the too-tight leather pants. But because I love both "Velvet Goldmine" and "Being John Malkovich", I like Stipe the best.

Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Saturday, 7 August 2004 06:04 (twenty-one years ago)

This is a really fucking stupid thread.

(I'm willing to accept it's supposed to be.)

David A. (Davant), Saturday, 7 August 2004 09:01 (twenty-one years ago)

(I guess.)

David A. (Davant), Saturday, 7 August 2004 09:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Just think for a few seconds more than your solip-special hipster moment how much these two fucked up yet engaged artists (better still... people!) have contributed to our jaded (ahem) "culture" (over twenty years of sunday bloody chronic rockville bad imitation of south central one tree hill), then continue to disrespect and ridicule from the hilltop of smug satisfaction their oddball contributions in the face of our wonderful ironic, sincerity-free new millennium.

Great, isn't it?

David A. (Davant), Saturday, 7 August 2004 09:13 (twenty-one years ago)

musical/"artistic" contributions aside, pray tell what has Bono accomplished w/his political posturing and pronouncements? Posing w/ Jesse Helms a few years back was the height of cluelessness. He got played for a fool by a racist hack politician.
Forced to choose, I'd take Stipe's boho pretensions over Bono's messianic self-delusion any day of the week.

mc aka lbs, Saturday, 7 August 2004 09:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I personally don't give a loving drawn-out shit about their political contributions.

(If forced to choose, I'd pick Stipe over Bono as less of a loser, but I've no idea why, probably I prefer early R.E.M., but only just... like it matters... way to "lose", anyway...)

David A. (Davant), Saturday, 7 August 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Quite. Neither person really falls under the description "loser" in any kind of meaningful way. I Like REM rekkids up to & inc. "Green" better than U2 generally, though REM after "Green" is pretty painful, whereas U2 after, say, "the joshua tree" is usually bearable at least. Bono drives a Bristol, so he is the "non-loser" out of the 2 of them for me.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 7 August 2004 10:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh. As for the 90s, I like, even love, the critically panned Achtung Baby and New Adventures in HiFi equally. The more I think about it, the more I realise how stupid this choice is, although this

I'd take Stipe's boho pretensions over Bono's messianic self-delusion any day of the week

did make me laugh a bit.

David A. (Davant), Saturday, 7 August 2004 11:11 (twenty-one years ago)

It's hard to call Satan a loser, so Stipe wins.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 August 2004 11:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't understand why everyone hates Bono. He's done more good things than any rock musician ever. When you get nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for successfully eliminating Third-World Debt you're ALLOWED to act like a bit of a prat.

Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 7 August 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

all hatred of Bono will be understood if you see The Omega Code and pretend that Michael York is playing him.

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 August 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not that much of a stretch, really

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 August 2004 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, could there be any more barely-concealed homophobia in every other "Stipe" answer?

Furthermore, what's so egregiously wrong with the lyrics to "Man on the Moon"?

"Here's a little agit for the never-believer / Here's a little ghost for the offering / Here's a truck stop instead of St. Peter's / Mr. Andy Kaufman's gone wrestling"

Perfectly normal, pleasantly obscure phonetic-based songwriting.

Stupid thread.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Saturday, 7 August 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

for successfully eliminating Third-World Debt

Uh, I don't think that's actually HAPPENED yet.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 August 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I find REM just dull. I see the goal of each new album as an attempt to bore me in a different way. Stipe as a person, I have no feelings for. His voice gets on my nerves, though.

I'm sorry. I still have a good bit of love for U2. I like everything through Zooropa, and sometimes enjoy Pop. All That You Can't... whatever, sucked. It sucked really hard. And I have no expectation that they'll ever make a decent album again. But I enjoyed their tenure in pop music. Sure, Bono can be a putz because he has trouble switching back to Bruce Wayne mode, but I have to admit that if I were in his position and I had the opportunity to get politicians to listen to my opinion about ____, I'd take it. Lord knows they don't give a shit now. And I'd keep my costume on, so they recognise me at the door.

Despite the fact that Bono is responsible for little of what out of U2 I love, I rate him over Stipe, because I dig his voice and his falsetto more.

Mike Salmo (salmo), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, could there be any more barely-concealed homophobia in every other "Stipe" answer?
http://www.buttmagazine.com/img/Cover_BUTT_9.jpg

MICHEAL STIPE NON-GAY QUEER POPSTAR FROM R.E.M. COLLECTS SUGAR PACKETS AND WAS DEVIRGINIZED AT AGE SEVEN


Interview and portraits by Wolfgang Tillmans
Interview as published in BUTT 9 on pages
11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19.


I first met Michael in 1995 when he, having come across my photographs in different places, called my gallery and said in this modest voice: ‘Hello, my name is Michael and I was wondering if Wolfgang is in town, because my band is playing at eh...Madison Square Garden tonight and I would like him to see the show.’ I wasn’t around but we got together after my return to New York and became friends. We never actually worked together on anything, so this is our ‘work debut.’ We met in a hotel room in London.


http://www.buttmagazine.com/img/9-Stipe.jpg
Michael: Can you buy me a couple more pairs of...what’s the name...Hanro? Grey. I prefer grey.
Assistant: Boxer briefs? Let me see.
Yeah, the boxer briefs. Really simple, got that on the side?
Assistant: Okay, okay, okay.
Do you want a drink? Do you want a beer or something?
Wolfgang: Yes.
What kind of beer? Does it matter?
Umm...no.
Can you order a beer from room service? And I’ll have a Campari and soda.
Assistant: Ok. Do you want a draft beer?
Actually, you know what would be great to have is a proper pint.
Assistant: Okay, yeah. A pint of beer and a Campari and soda.
Thank you sir!
Assistant: OK. See you guys.
(British accent) Hello! Wolfgang!

Hello. (laughs)

Should we talk first?

Yeah. We’ll do that.

So the one thing that I don’t do publicly is say what XXX’s name
is or where he’s from or what he does. I’m happy to talk about
my relationship in the abstract but I don’t want to expose him to...you
know, it’s not fair.

Yes. I know. I was aware of that, I guess.

Did I ever tell you this before?

No, but I’d picked up that whenever I read something where you mentioned
the Mister...


The Mister...that’s how I refer to him. I think it’s a good name. “Boyfriend” is
so...teenage, it’s so high school you know?

Yes.

“Lover” is a little bit...diminishing.

Yes.

So I think the Mister strikes the right balance, for me anyway.

And you never declare yourself gay as such...

I don’t. I think there’s a line drawn between gay and queer, and
for me, queer describes something that’s more inclusive of the grey areas.
There are people that very strongly identify themselves as gay and then lesbian,
and then I think there are a lot of people who are kind of some percentage or
some version of that. But it’s really about identity I think. The identity
that I’m comfortable with is queer because I just think it’s more
inclusive.

It kind of needed an advancement almost. Probably in ’69 it was fine
to say “I’m gay” because it included everything other than
the mainstream, but nowadays gay has become sort of a different kind


of gay mainstream, maybe. Yes, but it’s also become the opposite of straight,
and I think there’s all these gradations and all these shades. I really
like women, but I definitely like men more. But I can’t say that I was
experimenting or I didn’t know who I was when I dated women in the past.
I happened to find someone whom I’m crazy about, and he’s a man...
the Mister. (laughs)

Sounds like an S/M story. But that’s not the nature of the relationship,
hmm?


No.

(deep voice) The Mister.

The Mister.

When you’re giving interviews, does your mind ever wander off and you
start thinking in a sexual way about the interviewer?


Well, it’s a dance. If you interview a lot, or if you’re interviewed
a lot, it’s understood that it’s a completely false pretence that
you’re there. You’re two people that don’t know each other,
but one knows a lot of information about the other, and you’re going to
have a conversation that is not really a conversation. The job of a journalist,
the job of media is to get as much information and something that’s never
been heard before from their subject. It is the job of the subject, in my opinion,
to draw that line and say, “That’s enough. This is where I’m
comfortable and this is where I’m not comfortable.”

But do you ever just sort of look at them and...

Well yeah, it’s totally a dance. So yeah, I wouldn’t say sexual,
but maybe there’s always a flirt element, I think, to being photographed,
or photographing. Or to being interviewed or interviewing. Because you’re
revealing yourself, but it’s not like you reveal yourself to your lover,
or to the person you have sex with...it’s different.

But as a completely non-part of the professional situation, did your mind
ever wander off and think about it in a different way?


No. I wouldn’t say that. Not now, maybe in the past.

I guess now your heart is with someone.

Yeah. My heart is with someone...The Mister. (laughs) I mean, I’m a big
flirt, and I always have been, and that’s just part of who I am, and I
think when people realise that then they’re much more comfortable around
me, because if they feel like it’s all towards them, then that’s
not good. But that’s just part of the way I communicate. I don’t
think it’s a bad thing. It has been misinterpreted before.

I’m sure you were really sad to see the Concorde go.

I was really sad. I tried to bring it into a conversation the other day and it
seemed like the guy wasn’t interested in talking about it. I didn’t
know if people here were kind of over it, or if it was the news of the week and
then it was gone.

Richard Branson tried to buy them for a million pounds each, and talked of “industrial
vandalism”, which I think it is.


That they’re dismantling them?

Yeah. They were given to British Airways for one pound, and it was paid for
by taxpayers’ money. And so Richard Branson argued that it’s not
up to BA to decide to take this industrial monument out


of the skies, really. But so often people sort of go with Richard Branson for
a while and then they don’t fully back him. He tried to introduce a lottery
that was truly beneficial to the people. Is it hot in here?

Uh, well, I took my shirt off.

It’s rare that a symbol almost overcomes the arguments for it and against
it, but in the case of the Concorde to me, it was like art and technology and
science and vision all come together in one beautiful thing.

Yeah.

And sit down at a table of environmentalists and try to make that argument and
they’re going to squash you like a grape.

No, but I also think somebody needed to pay for it. You
know? It needed a hundred people a day to actually pay for this art work to carry
on flying, because if you had to make a case for this based only on reasonability,
then of course,it wouldn’t fly, but it’s this lack of reason that
made it fly. That a hundred people a day were willing to pay six thousand pounds
for that. It’s always this thing about luxury: if there’s absolutely
nobody who is prepared to pay for it, then you wouldn’t have that sort
of excellence. I’m usually a bit repulsed by a lot of luxury or super opulence.
But then again, if nobody paid for it, then the art of it would disappear. It’s
kind of like we don’t want dictators and monarchs, but then again we admire
the churches and the castles. It’s a little bit not resolved on that.


Yeah, that’s unresolved. You can’t not marvel at the architecture
of the World Trade Center or the train station in Milan, built as fascist architecture
to overwhelm and to make you feel as big as an ant when you walk into it. And
it had that effect. Phenomenal. In a phenomenal way it had that effect. The World
Trade Center, same way, you walked into the lobby and you felt like a bug.

Yes. Since you’re the one of us that actually flew on the Concorde,
have you ever joined the Supersonic Mile High Club?


No, in fact I’ve never even joined the Mile High Club. But I have noticed
in planes, and especially on long plane flights, there’s something about
the amount of air in a plane, and tell me if you’ve noticed the same thing...

You get a hard on.

No, your genitals just get heavier and bigger.

Really?

Mine do, which is kinda wild. Cause you go to the bathroom to pee, and you’re
in the middle of some bad movie and you’ve had two glasses of champagne
and you’re tired, and you’re nowhere, you know, you’re between
A and B, you’re just nowhere. Which is what I love about travelling and
being in a plane. It’s a place, and you remember being there, but it’s
a place that’s only found in time. Which is why I collect all my boarding
passes, and I have a huge collection of them.

Really? I do the same.

Hundreds of them.

My friends make fun of me.

Yeah mine do too.

Really! (laugh)

That’s so good! I’m so glad to know that you do too.

It’s a running joke, like “oh and your assistant has to file
your boarding passes.”


They totally make fun of me, but I glue them all on a board. And I have...this
is a little embarrassing, but I think for BUTT magazine I can reveal that I have
a thing called The Book of Me. And it’s just little things that I remember,
little things that I collected. A sugar packet with Martin Luther King’s
portrait on it, or the same sugar packet with the Concorde on it, or John F.
Kennedy. And a bus ticket from Spain that has a particularly beautiful font,
or a strange graphic on it. Those all go into The Book of Me. And the pages are
quite big and it’s a mess. It looks a little bit like Peter Beard, like
those strange books that he does. But mine are not as messy because I’m
a Capricorn. And I think I think like a Capricorn. Partly. But anyway, so you
don’t go to the bathroom because you have to pee, and you pull out the
tackle and it’s like “Holy Shit! Where did that come from?” I
think it has to do with the...

...lower air pressure?

Lower air pressure. Because you know how plastic bottles shrink in. I always
think my organs are doing the same thing. So I have to drink a lot of water on
the plane. And of course you have to pee a lot, so you’re just impressed
over and over again.

I can get quite horny just without thinking about it, I just have a nap on
a train or on a plane, and you wake up and suddenly have this...


...raging hard-on! Well, a train obviously because of the vibrations. Like brrbrrbrr...
I’m not a conspiracy theory person at all, but I used to think... (Knock
on door) Bellboy: How are you sir? Good, thanks. Come on in. Bellboy: Good evening
sir.

Hello.

Just here is fine. Bellboy: Do you want a tray sir? Oh no it’s okay. Nothing
here is worth anything. Bellboy: I’ll leave these here. Oh sorry sir,
could you sign here please? Sure. Bellboy: Thank you very much sir. Have a good
evening. You too sir. Thanks. So, I used to think they purposely pulled the oxygen
level back in the cabin as they were taking off, so that people would fall asleep.
Because if you get less oxygen, you just drift into sleep. And it’s true,
a lot of people fall asleep right before the plane takes off.

Oh, me too. Totally. I can’t stop it.

It’s because the oxygen level has been brought down. The reason they’re
doing that Ð I looked into it Ð is because they need as much power as
they can get to get the plane off the ground. And once you’re 5,000 feet
up, you’re fine.

Hmm.

Ah. A beer for Wolfgang, a Campari and soda for Michael.

Thanks.

Cheers. To the funniest magazine in the world.

That was a lot of “sirs” the waiter just said.

I know, it makes me nervous. Well, it’s something in the South, you say “sir” as
a sign of respect. It’s not so much a service thing, but it’s a
sign of respect.

I don’t want to be too direct an interviewer, but what was your first
sexual experience?


Oh god, have we talked about this before? Easter Sunday, Germany, a brother and
sister, both redheads, in a bathtub.

Really?

I was seven.

Really?

Yeah.

You told me that you partially grew up in Germany, exactly. For two years
or something. Or for how long was it?


For two years, yeah, in Frankfurt. And they were older than me. I think they
had a better idea of what they were doing and that they shouldn’t have
been doing it, than I did, certainly. I was just like “Wee, this is fun.” But
it was pretty wild. And yeah, I think of that as my awakening.

Wow. And did you come?

No, I don’t think so. No.

I don’t think you can come at seven.

At seven, I don’t think so, no. That experience marks itself in my memory.
My memory of when I lived in Germany was almost day by day. My memory of those
times I could almost write down on a calendar, the two years that I lived there.
It was such an enlightening time for me, a developing time, I think. A time of
development. Not just sexual. That was intense.

Wow.

And I still have a thing for redheads. I remember they had a white carpet and
their mother wore paper dresses. She was an obsessive compulsive, I think that’s
what she would be called now, about cleaning. So you had to take your shoes off
before you entered the house, and she wasn’t a Buddhist, I don’t
think.

A typically German mum... (laughs)

Yeah. I don’t think they were German, though. I think they were American.

And your father was in the army?

Yeah, he was in the army. I went back there recently to that building. When my
band played Frankfurt in ‘99. I got one of the drivers, and I told him
where I wanted to go. I knew the address from memory.

Really?

Yeah, I told you I remembered everything. The significant part of that story
is that my memory is not like that at all. You know me well enough to know that
there are huge gaps in my memory, and everyone is like that, and I think it makes
for great song writing. So it’s odd that that period of my childhood is
so clear to me, when I was there. And it might have just been being lifted out
of the norm, which for me at the time was the South. I’d lived mostly
in Georgia, and being put somewhere that was really really exotic to me, which
was Frankfurt...so I went back and it was exactly the same. There were hurricane
fences and that was the only difference. Some of the same trees were still there
from my memory.

And you went into the apartment?

I tried. I knocked on the door and no one answered. The shocking thing is that
I had my house in Georgia renovated...I once bought the house next door to my
house in Georgia, because I wanted the property next to mine, so that my house
would be protected by that. I didn’t really have much of an interest in
the house itself, I just thought I’ll put $30,000 into painting it and
fixing the roof, and make it so that I can rent it out. Well, we started renovating
the house, and it was held together with termite spit. There was nothing left,
it was a miracle that it hadn’t collapsed on somebody. So we completely
renovated the house from the ground up, using the same imprint of the original
house, the same roof line, everything is the same except we took out every wall
inside and put in a glass roof.

Oh wow.

You’ve never been there, have you, to Georgia? It’s just beautiful
and strange. I wanted to put in radiant heat. You can put it under a wood floor
but it works really well with concrete. So I wanted concrete, but I didn’t
want concrete throughout. I wanted terrazzo, and I wanted a specific type of
terrazzo. So we went, and we found it, and we installed terrazzo flooring throughout
my new house, which was finished in probably 1996. When I went back to the apartment
building that I’d lived in 28 years before that, the most unbelievable
thing...as I walked in the door I looked down at the floor and it was the same
floor.

Really?

It’s as if I had somewhere imprinted in my brain that this floor was a
place of calm and peace and home. And I put in the exact same floor in my home
in Georgia thirty years later. So that was kind of shocking and wild to go back
and see that.

It’s incredible. And did the soldiers leave an impression on you? Did
you fancy them?


Uh-uh. No, I didn’t fancy anything, I was seven.

But were you afraid of soldiers?

No, my dad was one. I was used to being around people in uniforms and stuff.
I think I was neutral about it in fact, I didn’t think one way or the
other about it.

By the way, talking about dad, what is this American thing about daddy that’s
so specifically American? Like gay American or queer American.


Daddy, like the gay subculture of “daddy?”

Yeah.

Are we going from my father to this? (both laugh) Wolfgang!

I don’t think people mean their daddy. It’s never happened to
me in Europe Ð it’s never come up, it’s never a fantasy. But
in America it’s always like, oh daddy, I want a real hot daddy...


You and I, we run in different circles. (laughs) I have some friends who are
bears, and I think it’s a similar thing.

Exactly. Sort of the big, overbearing man that protects you.

I think it’s simply about having an older, not necessarily disciplinary,
but an older, strong, protective relationship.

Yeah.

Maybe that’s reductive, but that’s what it seems like it’s
about to me.

I never could quite make out why that doesn’t seem to be a European
thing.


I didn’t know that it wasn’t European. I just never really thought
about it I guess.

The bear scene is this huge scene in London now.

Is it?

It’s incredible. Like there’s Bulk and there’s XXL and
there’s Growl and there’s Woof.


These better be club names. (laughs)

Yes they are. They’re club names.

Don’t tell me that’s another subculture. I just wouldn’t
be shocked at this point by anything, at the age of 43. I just kind of feel like
if I haven’t seen it, I’ve imagined it or I know that it’s
out there somewhere. If you’re going to tell me that Woof is some gay
subculture that I’m not aware of...

No, they’re all names for bear clubs.

Okay, alright...Woof. I’m a woof, are you? And that’s W-O-O-F,
like the dog bark, okay?

Yes. (laughs)

Are you woof?

(laughs) Did your band always know of yourself as queer?

Did who?

The band.

Yeah.

Yeah? Like in ’83?

In ’79.

Really. When did you form?

Well, Peter and I came together in ’79. I tried to convince him for three
or four months to play guitar with me and that I wanted to start a band. And
he said, “Well all guitar players are assholes and I don’t want
to be an asshole.” And I’m like, “C’mon.” And
he only knew three chords and he didn’t think he was good enough to be
in a band. But I’d never written a song before. We both were learning
from the very beginning how to do anything. And then we met Mike and he knew
Bill. And so we started in ’79 and we had our first show in April of 1980,
at a birthday party. But from the very beginning, I remember distinctly Peter
and I used to sit up late into the night and write songs, or just play guitar
or talk or listen to records or watch TV or whatever. When we were both sitting
on his bed I remember turning to him and saying, “Look, if you ever get
the idea I’m coming on to you, I’m not. That’s not our relationship.
So just know we’re friends, we’re in a band together, and that’s
the end.”

He said that?

I said that to him because that was an intimacy that was very important to me
at the time. And it’s still very important to me.

Because he knew that you were queer and he would think...

I don’t know if he knew, but that was my way of telling him, to say, “Look,
if you ever get the idea that I’m flirting with you, I’m not. That’s
how I communicate. We’re friends and we’re in a band together now.
So that’s what it is.”

And did you then have boyfriends or partners?

Yeah. I had boyfriends and girlfriends pretty much from pretty early on. I started
early. It was tough because there wasn’t really a category for me and
I didn’t like the third sex, it didn’t feel comfortable calling
myself bisexual...I didn’t like that. I didn’t really figure out
until I was eighteen or nineteen, I thought I had more of a preference for men,
but there were certain women that I was really attracted to and wanted to have
a relationship with, and so I kind of just went with my heart the whole time.
And sometimes with my hard-on, I guess. (laughs) I always get really embarrassed
when I talk about my own relationships just because that’s who I am.

I’m actually curious myself because you have so
phenomenally managed to be...I guess like most gay or queer artists that were
not outspokenly out, they still spoke to a gay audience, and somehow
send out that vibe, and at the same time probably had to stay closeted for some
reason or other, I guess.


No, there’s this idea that record companies
and bands have this combative relationship and that’s not been my experience
at all.

No, I don’t think it’s the record companies, you just look at
the careers, in the ’80s at least, I guess few people have really survived
a full-on coming out. But you managed to somehow...but withyou, even to date,
it’s
not an issue, really. People sort of gradually accepted...

Well, but they always want to talk about it.

They do, yeah?

Yeah, always.

Oh I see.

They never kind of accept what I have to say, which is that it’s not that
easy, that desire to me is a very slippery thing. In my experience there’s
a lot of people who agree, and there are people that are very very comfortable
identifying themselves as one thing and not another, and that’s great,
and I’m glad they’re there, and then there are people for whom
it’s a state of mind, or it’s a word, or it’s an identity,
or it’s more than an identity...for me, I’m really proud that I’ve
never talked about a girlfriend without talking about a boyfriend as well. I
was never photographed with a woman on my arm, trying to pretend that I was something
that I wasn’t. I was always extremely frank and very open with the people
around me. But for the public, I just felt like, “If you haven’t
figured it out, I’m not going to tell you. It’s not really your
business...” To me, it’s more of an issue of privacy.

And how did you meet people, since being in the band...did you go to bars?
Because it’s hard to be anonymous for you. So did you always meet people
through...


Through friends? No, I’m a pretty social animal. I go out a lot.

Of course, I’ve seen you out. You don’t seem to be bothered
that much by people.


No, I’m not that type of celebrity.

Exactly. People treat you really respectfully, no?

People treat me with respect. And so meeting people was never a problem for me
so much. I really trust my instincts, and I really instantly like people or not.
I think I have a strong barometer for people who are good and have good energy
and are good people to be around. The one thing that can skew that is a pretty
face. (laughs)

So have you been betrayed? Have there been people actually talking to the
media guys? Except for, actually, in BUTT magazine, I read about...


...Casey Spooner! That was a funny one. He has a fantastic sense of reality,
Mr. Casey Spooner...

Was that not so real what he said?

...and he has an amazing ass. And a great smile. And one of the best laughs this
side of Wolfgang Tillmans. It’s true. (laughs) He is a piece of work.
Can I go off record for a minute? (one minute later)

(laughs) When was that?

It was between 1924 and 1929. It was a long time ago...(laughs) only yesterday,
just a whisper away. He always had a spark, Mr. Casey Spooner. And it’s
only grown brighter and more firework-like.

Talking about fame, have you ever met Andy Warhol?

Uh-huh.

I always wanted to ask you, I’m intrigued by Warhol stories because
it’s almost like, people that have met him and people that haven’t
met him...this sort of enigma.


We were photographed together. We met once. And he took pictures of me after
the picture was shot. But we were photographed together, just the two of us.
And he turned to me and he said, “You’re cute,” and I said, “Thank
you.” And he said, “What do you do?” and I said, “I’m
a singer in a band," and he said, “Oh, you’re a pop star,” and
I said, “No, I’m a singer in a band,” and he said, “So
you’re a pop star,” and I said, “No, I’m a singer
in a band.” (laugh) And then he said, “Can I have your phone number?” and
I said, “Of course.” So I wrote my phone number down. But I didn’t
have an answering machine. I’ll never know if he actually called me or
not. This was in 1986.

His last year.

I think it was ’86. I had red eyebrows and bleached blond hair. It’s
a funny picture because I look more like Warhol than he does. I had bleached
blond hair, but I had red eyebrows. The blank look on my face was one that I
think I had mimicked from him for years and years and I didn’t realise
until years later, maybe 1993 or 1994, that unconsciously, I had a look for camera.
Really out of a distrust of most photographers. And I had, not a low self-image,
but I didn’t think that I photographed well. And I wasn’t sure
that I would place my trust in just anyone who wanted to take a picture of me
for whatever reason. And this was all unconscious, so I developed this look for
camera and it was, I think, taken from Warhol. It was just this completely deadpan,
straight-to-the-camera, arms-straight-down, nothing look. And I worked that look
for about thirteen years. (laughs)

Now it’s become a look?

I’m capable of expanding now beyond that.

Do you want anything from the minibar?

No, I’m fine. I would love to be a bit funnier in this interview. Isn’t
it too serious?

Well, I don’t want to be too intrusive.

I wouldn’t answer anything I didn’t want to answer.

Have you ever done outdoor cruising?

Have I what?

Done outdoor cruising.

What is that?

I don’t know, like gone to a park.

Gone to a park in a car...

Or cottaging...

No. No and no. Not at all.

(laughs) Never like in the past and...?

No, not even when I was a teenager.

It just never appealed to you? Anonymous sex?

No. That’s a certain type of anonymous sex. I think anonymous sex is kind
of appealing to every one pretty much, on some level. It’s just where
you place it in your fantasy world and then whether or not you act on it.

And does it have a place with you?

Anonymous sex? Yeah. It certainly did. It certainly helped make me the person
that I am today. (both laugh)

Where was that?

I couldn’t get that specific. I mean, that would be embarrassing. But,
no, I’ve never been auto-cruising, is that what you call it?

Outdoor cruising.

Outdoor. Oh, okay. Like going to a park. No. And cottaging is going to a public
toilet, right? No. That’s just not my cup of tea, really. Nah.

(laughs)

Do I sound like a prude?

No, I’d sort of like to get an idea of...what sort of colourful things
you may have encountered.


Oh god, I couldn’t get too specific. I mean, that would be too embarrassing.

Yes.

Well, we’ve established that I’ve never fucked on an airplane,
I’ve never gone to a park or to a public toilet, and I’m not a
prude.

(laugh) But you’re not a prude.

If I say that then they’ll make it the headline. (both laugh) I’m
trying to picture the headline now: “Singer named by Warhol as pop star
not a prude.” (both laugh)

No, I totally respect that you can’t...

No, personally, I feel like I sweat and breathe sexual energy. Sex is such an
important thing to me, and the idea of that kind of energy moving around me all
the time, whether I partake in it or not, is for me very interesting. And that’s
the weird thing about being a media figure or a celebrity, is that really part
of my job is observing. I think yours is the same, you observe and you capture
things with photographs, with lyrics or with observation. And when you’re
well known and recognised, you walk into a room and it’s difficult to
be an observer. You kind of have to be blank enough that people have their moment
with you and then they move on through their evening and you get to observe them.
I’ve learned how to allow people that moment and then be able to watch.

There’s always this sort of longing in your music. I listened to the
album yesterday, again, or for the first time, the greatest hits album. And there
are so many songs that edge me just a little


bit towards being moved. Or, not that I want to burst into tears, but sort of
in that direction. Right. Thank you.

(laugh)

That’s a nice thing to say.

Even though I’’ve never been a declared R.E.M. fan...

It’s not really your type of music, right?

Not particularly, no, exactly. But I’ve always been sort of touched
by the longing. By that sort of sentiment. I don’t want to say it’s
melancholic, but there is a passion for it. Like I also have


always been very fond of Neil Young, even though it’s not my sort of music.
Part of it is a voice, I think. In both cases. Neil Young’s voice is so
tenuous, it sounds like it’s going to crack any moment. Like Conor Oberst’s
from Bright Eyes. You hear him sing and he’s got a waver in his voice
that makes it sound like it’s taking every bit of power that he has within
his body to push his voice out. And a lot of the stuff that I’m drawn
to is people that have just a slightly different, or an extremely different,
read on what it is that they’re covering as a subject, no matter what
medium they choose. And a humour. There’s always gotta be that. I always
want thoughtfulness and I always want humour. Interpol. I get that from them.

What?

The band Interpol. Do you know?

Is that...I don’t know.

They’ve been compared a lot to Joy Division, just because of their sound,
and the sound of the voice, and the way they dress. But it’s so good,
the music is so good. And Conor Oberst, same thing. Conor is like that...if there’s
a record I could recommend for the readers of BUTT magazine, it would be Conor’s
record.

Conor?

His band is called Bright Eyes, and then there’s another record that is
closely aligned with Bright Eyes, which is by this guy Andy LeMaster from Athens,
Georgia. There’s this big musical connection between Athens and Omaha,
Nebraska, which is where Conor is from, and there’s a record company there
called Saddle Creek, and they have all these really interesting musicians that
are doing a lot of very cool stuff. But Andy LeMaster has a group called Now
It’s Overhead, and that’s the best record, I think, that came out
the year before last. My favourite record. It’s hands down one of the
most brilliant albums that I’ve heard in forever.

http://www.buttmagazine.com/img/StipeNote.jpg
BUTT NOTE –
After hanging out at the Berkeley hotel in London, Michael and Wolfgang took a hired Rolls-Royce to some Red Cross charity event. Here’s Michael getting it on with the hood ornament.


Now it's a stupid thread, happy?

AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

if there’s a record I could recommend for the readers of BUTT magazine, it would be Conor’s record.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 8 August 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, could there be any more barely-concealed homophobia in every other "Stipe" answer?

This is so fucking true it hurts.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 8 August 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Homophobia? please. I only choose Bono because Stipe's fagitry scares me.

Gear! (Gear!), Sunday, 8 August 2004 02:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't care about stipe's sexuality. i say bono is less of a loser b/c of the eno connection and he likes bowie (esp. the berlin-era stuff).

btw, why IS it that EVERYONE (including me) has to bring up the mullet years when discussing bono? it's not like he's the ONLY eighties pop star to wear one, you know!

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 8 August 2004 02:25 (twenty-one years ago)

So what if Eno produced some U2. Albini recorded Bush, fer chrissakes.

band produced by non-loser /= non-loser band

AaronHz (AaronHz), Sunday, 8 August 2004 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

That stipe interview is comedy gold.
That said, everybody deserves a Mister to call their own.

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 8 August 2004 02:57 (twenty-one years ago)

That stipe interview is comedy gold.

there's a lot of really funny interviews on that site:
http://www.buttmagazine.com/

and no, it is not entirely work safe

AaronHz (AaronHz), Sunday, 8 August 2004 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks, AaronHz.

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 8 August 2004 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Bono. Tea in coffeehouses over Low in Eurotrash dives, poetry readings over Bono drunk, mops over mullets, etc.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 8 August 2004 03:32 (twenty-one years ago)

A more interesting question: why are these two guys always in the same sentence? Are their career trajectories that similar? Bono has been a preening peacock since day one; Stipe kept a remarkably low profile for almost the whole first decade of his band's existence. Bono's a tenor/falsetto, Stipe's a baritone. Stipe hasn't made an ass of himself in pop politics since 1991 (it seems like people still can't forgive him the multiple t-shirts stunt), runs a great film production company (Single Cell), *quietly* finances a ton of charities and helped establish another one (C-100). Meanwhile, Bono tours Africa with Paul O'Neill and says things like "We're applying for the job of the world's greatest band" onstage.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 8 August 2004 03:54 (twenty-one years ago)

"Another one" = another film production company. Sorry.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 8 August 2004 03:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I used to like U2 back in the day, but Bono is a loser for at least two reasons: the aforementioned "look at me I'm saving the world with my politics" gimmick and the whole wearing-an-acoustic-guitar-behind-the-back-cos-it-looks-cool-but-I-can't-play-it gimmick.

Joseph Pot (STINKOR™), Sunday, 8 August 2004 04:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Points to ponder:
Bono = The Thinking Man's Diamond Dave or Bad Irish Knockoff of Sting?
Stipe = The Thinking Man's Dafe Mettews or Fred Schneider without the ZippyZippyZipZipZiggahZigAaaah?

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 8 August 2004 05:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Neither man is a "loser", but joseph cotten OTM with his questions. I always thought of R.E.M. as an American Smiths at the time, jangly guitars and shy, mumbly lyrics. U2 were altogether a different species, a little Clash mixed with some Zeppelin and some something else (Sweet, T. Rex, Pistols, Joy Division, Buzzcocks, Ramones, Patti, glam, Elton, Bowie, Stevie W., etc). Definitely contemporaries, sharing formative moments and "influences", but distinct enough.

I defy anyone to exist as long as either man in the music biz without occasionally doing something cringeworthy or just plain dumb. All power to the both of them, now their time is largely over, for surviving and writing some memorable pop songs. That's all.

David A. (Davant), Sunday, 8 August 2004 09:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh, please don't link to naked dudes. Jesus H Monkeychrist...

John 2, Monday, 9 August 2004 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

and no, it is not entirely work safe

AaronHz (AaronHz), Monday, 9 August 2004 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks to this thread, when I saw a trailer for "Lost Boys of the Sudan" last night, with a brief appearance by Bono, I fell over laughing.

Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Monday, 9 August 2004 03:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't believe there's actually a "Butt" magazine. Hilarious. Oh yeah, Bono got some weird shades. That makes him cooler than Stipe though.

Bill Blass, Monday, 9 August 2004 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't believe there's actually a "Butt" magazine
I believe the current issue features a Stephin Merritt interview.

AaronHz (AaronHz), Monday, 9 August 2004 04:04 (twenty-one years ago)

"Oh yeah, Bono got some weird shades. That makes him cooler than Stipe though."

You must not have seen Michael's BLUE STRIPE.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 9 August 2004 04:06 (twenty-one years ago)

SOMETIMES IT'S ORANGE

AaronHz (AaronHz), Monday, 9 August 2004 04:06 (twenty-one years ago)

This is a really fucking stupid thread.

Agreed.

That said, I find Bono hard to bear. I'm glad he's stood up and said something about Third World Debt, though, because the more people that keep that issue in the public eye, the better. Even if they ARE people that it is currently rather hip to pour scorn on.

Well, fuck being hip. I like stuff by U2 and R.E.M. and see neither of these people as a loser.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Monday, 9 August 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

they do both have alot more money than me.

dyson (dyson), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

btw, why IS it that EVERYONE (including me) has to bring up the mullet years when discussing bono? it's not like he's the ONLY eighties pop star to wear one, you know!

Maybe because his hair still seems to be a tad mullet-esque? He seems to have had an even harder time than Patrick Swayze in letting go of the mullet look.

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

He should just go bald and donate his hair to Moby.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Moby deserves follicular impoverishment.

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Moby deserves...(insert your choice of painful happening here)

Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

It is precisely because Moby is in a bad way that Bono, being a believer, should show him some sort of Christian charity. They should honor Shane McGowan and Nick Cave and cover "What a Wonderful World" together.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)


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