Does Everyone On Earth Really Hate "Golden Lights"?

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The Smiths version that is. Not Twinkle's. I don't even think I've ever heard Twinkle's version. Anyway, I've heard that this is everyone's least favorite song. And I've been reading Mojo's Smiths mag, which is awesome, and they call it "titanically awful" and the "only thoroughly rotten thing they ever put to tape". I always kinda liked it. When I first heard it I just figured it was a novelty. Nothing to hate or get excited about. I'd rather listen to "Golden Lights" than "Meat Is Murder". I'm never in the mood to hear that song.

I like the Dutch interview with Morrissey from 1986 in the mag. Especially the part where he says that he doesn't like "What Difference Does It Make?" because the lyrics are bad and beacuse it is too rockist! I thought of ILM when I read that.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

My friends never tire of reminding me that I once snootily (well *I* didn't think I was being snooty) remarked, in reference to one of them picking 'What Difference Does It Make' as a favourite, that Morrissey never liked it much.

I've never disliked 'Golden Lights'. It's sweet. But yeah, if I had to drop half a dozen Smiths recordings from existence, it would probably be amongst them.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I'm not saying it's great or anything, but people who hate it seem to think it's an embarrassing blight on their spotless record. It's certainly not "titanically awful"!

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

No. I'm happy listening to it and I agree it seems to attract undue vitriol. Maybe retrospectively, people hate the pop covers more because of Marr saying that covering a Cilla Black song was the final straw for him.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought it was great and still do. The watery reverb on the vocals and all...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 7 August 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

That Mojo issue is awesome. I'm inspired to go veggie. I have no problem with "Golden Lights"--the hate for it seems to me like the bile concentrated against the Smiths' song it's most safe in these days of their canonization to bitch about--their tweest song maybe, a cover no less, and a lightweight one (not say from the New York Dolls), its proximity to "Oscillate Wildly" on Louder Than Bombs, other stupid reasons.

― steve hise, Saturday, 7 August 2004 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's great. And the Smiths have some songs that are much worse.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Saturday, 7 August 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

How exactly can a song be rockist?

― Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 7 August 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

The Cilal black cover - and that whole EP - was the first Smiths CD I ever haerd, so it holds a special place in my heart.

Songs "Golden Lights" is better than: "Asleep," "Rubber Ring," and maybe "Frankly Mr Shankley" (but I dare you to turn that last one off when it's on)

maybe a dud among many, many classics, but on it's own? meh.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

In no way do they have a spotless record, but I'm definitely not a fan of this track. I stop listening to Louder Than Bombs right after "Ask" in a large part because this is next and I have the comp on tape.

Oh, "Frankly Mr. Shankly" is WAY better than this.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Bizarre three choices from roger. Admittedly, I have to be in the mood for 'Asleep'.

'Unloveable', 'Death At One's Elbow', 'Unhappy Birthday', and 'Barbarism Begins At Home' (the studio version, anyway) all actively drag more.

'Money Changes Everything' and 'Work Is A Four Letter Word' (and 'What's The World', if that counts) are all more... meh.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm...I agree with those except for "Unahppy Birthday," which always struck me as parody, but it's bouncy and fun. "Barbarism Begins At Home"'s only crime is that it's so long, so trying-to-be-epic.

If I get the energy I'm going to start a thread on underrated Smiths songs like "A Rush and A Push And The Land Is Ours," "I Know IT's Over," and all the 'rock' ones: "Shakespeare's Sister," "London," and "Handsome Devil."

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure what circlesyou're moving in that 'I Know It's Over' is underrated. Have you ever read Nick Kent on it in his original NME review?

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"Golden Lights" is a lovely song, as is "Asleep". (The latter is the theme tune to an imaginary ultra-dark sitcom in my head).

I think a lot of The Smiths' dullest moments happened early-ish in their career. "Barbarism" is certainly a good example.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Hang on, I'm not sure Nick Kent was writing for the NME in 1986. Well, anyway.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

noodle otm, a lot of the s/t album drags. The only reason I love "Reel Around the Fountain" and "Suffer Little Children" is because they evoke a specific time in my life that I miss. But, objectively, as 'songs,' the rock critic is me says 'meh.'

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I am bewildered, again! I'm not sure what criteria you're using to gauge 'Reel Around the Fountain' and 'Suffer Little Children' "meh".

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think those songs are as inventive or original as the stuff they wrote later. That's my criteria.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I always seem to be in a Strangeways mood. I can't remember the last time I played Meat Is Murder or the first album. I usually just end up putting Hatful on if I want to hear the old stuff.

I did play The Queen Is Dead not that long ago though. That's a good one to pull out if you have been drinking a little bit.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd agree about some of the tracks on the debut, noodle, esp. with the production they received, but 'Reel Around the Fountain' and 'Suffer Little Children'? Jesus.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

my criteria is based on the fact that, as an adult, I never want to endure those sons when I'm driving around. When I was 14, they were my favorite songs ever.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not saying I hate them, they're just at the low end in my order of Smiths-songs-I-enjoy. Which means I prob'ly agree with roger: I can live without ever hearing them again.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I am imagining Mike Rutherford on R1's Roundtable c.1984, giving his opinion on 'Suffer Little Children'.

"Hmm.. not really my cup of tea. Maybe it would be good to drive to".

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey, Mike ripped off the tune to "Suffer Little Children" for "The Living Years".

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

And doesn't Paul Carrack appear on both?

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

The Carrack connection was what brought him to mind, I think.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I've always found that the weirdest of connections.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

(he's only on 'Reel Around The Fountain' I think).

I don't think I'd ever want to drive around to either of those songs either, btw. But I guess that's not my objective criterion.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, there you go. I like me a good drivin' record - like the new Dizzee, or the new Mastodon. And I brought the s/t Smiths album with me on tour and it put everyone - all Smiths fans - to sleep.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Who was drivin'?

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Me. That's why I was most affected. I had to sit through it.

Again, I used to LOVE those songs.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

The BBC version of Reel Around the Fountain is maybe my favorite Smiths song!

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Saturday, 7 August 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I prefer the David Jensen version, but yeah, it's still my favourite song of all time, whatever that means anymore, so whatever version.

Oh, and I shouldn't have doubted my memory about Nick Kent on 'I Know It's Over':

I've saved the best to last. Back to side one, track three. 'I Know It's Over' is simply the finest piece of music The Smiths have produced. The song is essentially about loss of innocence or, in my interpretation, of romantic idealism, and is the first piece of music since Frank Sinatra's 'One For My Baby' to have brought me to tears. Morrissey has always been pop's most underrated vocalist, but here his performance is literally devastating. Marr, Rourke, and Joyce keep things spartan, stripped back, gradually building until the climax affords them the rein to almost explode. Yet Morrissey's voice is so totally in control of the dynamics that they shine simply by underpinning his every inflection. The performance and the song are stunning beyond words.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Err.. Jensen also on BBC of course. I somehow read 'BBC' as 'Peel'.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Hyperbole aside, I agree with Kent.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Where I disagree with him is in his opinion of the Rank version. To me, even greater.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

"Still Ill" is underrated!

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Again, the version on Rank is my favourite - combining defiance and triumph to irresistable effect.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Lacks harmonica!

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck harmonica!

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"Hand In Glove" - Harmonica = suXOr

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I was just gonna post that! Well, I was gonna say that i like "Hand In Glove" but that i never loved it. And the harmonica is one reason. Although I like "Still Ill" a lot, so.....

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

oh wait, noodle, you were saying that hand in glove without harmonica sucks? nevermind then. i'm just not a big hand in glove fan, i guess.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I will not rest till it is at the heart of everything.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Apropos of little, this is my favourite ILM Smiths thread:

The Miracle of the Smiths

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:22 (twenty-one years ago)

See, now I'm always in the mood to hear "Accept Yourself"! I'm playing it right now.

That's a cool thread. From the daze of thoughtful long posts.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

what a queer sentence, now, with 2004's eyes: Morrissey has always been pop's most underrated vocalist.

― cºzen (Cozen), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I will not rest till it is at the heart of everything.

wasn't this almost morrissey's attitude towards 'hand in glove' after it had been spurned from reaching no. 1?

― cºzen (Cozen), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't heard half the songs mentioned on this thread, btw.

― cºzen (Cozen), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

It was a Morrissey quote.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 21 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I love love love the Twinkle original. After I heard it, I didn't like the Smiths version as much.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Saturday, 7 August 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't like the idea of setting keats and yeats up against wilde, though. it always struck me as building walls where there should be none.

Well yes, but pinning one's allegiance in a manner usually deemed appropriate only for fans of rival pop groups is the whole preposterous fun of it.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got Twinkle's version on a tape somewhere, but a lot of her stuff is terrifically hard to get hold of, I think.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

it bothered me. i worried (yes, actually worried) about who i'd choose if it came down to it. like, if morrissey showed up at my door and was all "lauren, i'm sorry but i really have to know."

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 7 August 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

There are Twinkle comps you can probably buy on Amazon.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/clipserve/B00005NX0K001003/302-2378941-3184865

or at least on German Amazon.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Rating ANY song on _Strangeways..._ over "Golden Lights" is a sign of dementia.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 7 August 2004 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, well maybe I'm wrong. JtN put her English language version of 'Poupee de Cire' ('A Lonely Singing Doll') on a CD-R for me recently and I remember it took me ages to find out what year it was from. I think I'm confusing that with not being able to buy it.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Looking again, I don't know why even that took me so long. The first page of Google results shows it's 1965. Ignore me.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Rating ANY song on _Strangeways..._ over "Golden Lights" is a sign of dementia.

no. wrong.

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

_Strangeways..._ is fucking horrible aside from two songs.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Yer crazy, Dan. Have you been drinking from the Charles River?

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

no. wrong.

xpost

― lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Dan's always got this thing about Strangeways. He'll not be told.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I was gonna say!

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

He needs help. It's a glorious album.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

When did "glorious" become synonymous with "unbearably pompus and unlistenable"?

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll pop your pompusity.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

See, I hate that album so much I have to make up words to describe my disdain.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

The fact that people pick that album over _Meat Is Murder_ is proof of the existence of Satan.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Yikes, okay, you've made up your mind. I won't try to sway you. (everyone knows how great it is anyway.)

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Dan inspired me to revive an old thread.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

"Last Night i Dreamt that Somebody Loved Me" vs "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" FITE!

― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 7 August 2004 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I found the the RPM Twinkle compilation fairly easily. Lonely Singing Doll isn't as good as Poupee de Cire, Poupee de Son, though.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"That Joke Isn't Funny" isn't a fair comparison on account of it being the GREATEST! SONG!! EVAH!!!!

But the cruel irony of Meat Is Murder is that for all Side 1 is the purest genius, Side 2 is lightly suspended drivel.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 7 August 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

FWIW this is the only song I invariably skip on Louder Than Bombs.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 8 August 2004 03:01 (twenty-one years ago)

While I'm waiting for my hangover to subside, I'd like to nominate "Half A Person" as my favourite overlooked Smiths song. Half pure maudlin ("sixteen clumsy and shy") and half Charles Hawtrey ("I booked myself in at the Y-W-C-A").

That's the story of my life.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Sunday, 8 August 2004 07:17 (twenty-one years ago)

isn't morrissey sort of poking fun at himself with the wilde v. keats/yates lyric? i mean, it's deliberate overstatement, right? or am i overestimating his capacity for self-awareness at the time?

"golden lights" is a very sad song, but somehow it takes the twinkle version to bring this home to me. the smiths version seems a mite too impressed with itself, maybe--impressed for covering such an earnest song. the original is just plain earnest, and the better for it.

― ||amateur!st|| (amateurist), Sunday, 8 August 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

as for the tune, it's sort of a textbook bad melody (just sing the first two lines of the chorus), but that only contributes to its poignant simplicity (?? i might be overreaching ??).

― ||amateur!st|| (amateurist), Sunday, 8 August 2004 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

i.e. it's the sort of simple lullabyesque melody you might imagine this girl humming to herself as she ponders the boy who abandoned her for fame and fortune. i don't think it's a great record, but the fact that the bad melody fits the theme redeems it somewhat.

― ||amateur!st|| (amateurist), Sunday, 8 August 2004 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

When did "glorious" become synonymous with "unbearably pompus and unlistenable"?

haha I'd like to ask that of Meat Is Murder fans moreso than those who like Strangeways.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

aside from the big american radio hit the only track on Meat Is Murder I know I like is the one that makes me feel bad about going to Taco Bell so often.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

and the one track on Strangeways I'm not sure I like is the big american radio hit

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

"While I'm waiting for my hangover to subside, I'd like to nominate "Half A Person" as my favourite overlooked Smiths song."

Agreed. Great Song. I'll nominate "You just haven't earned it yet, baby" as my personal fave unheralded (?) Smiths tune. Sure, the lyrics are almost a throwaway, but the sound of the song always strikes me. Beautiful guitarwork from Marr, great yodeling and crooning from Morissey.

― drew, Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:49 (twenty-one years ago)

where does everybody get their sense of the Smiths canon? There's so many comps and stuff that, aside from my own faves (most of which can be found on The Queen Is Dead) and what the radio plays, I have no idea what's heralded or not.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)

plus most smiths fans I know would let mozz shit in their mouth and call it a sundae (or You Are The Quarry).

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 8 August 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"Half A Person" rules. As for more unheralded Smiths songs I like, aside from the ones I posted upthread, I also like:

"Is It Really So Strange?"

"Sheila Take A Bow" (is this unheralded? It's on most of the greatest hits comps, but few people ever mention it)

"Sweet and Tender Hooligan"

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 8 August 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

wasn't sheila take a bow a top 10 hit in the UK?

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 8 August 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Dan is OTM regarding Strangeways

― H (Heruy), Sunday, 8 August 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

in college, we nicknamed strangeways "the urine album" because of the color of the cd cover.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 8 August 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

it is yellow! see. white, my ass.

― cºzen (Cozen), Sunday, 8 August 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I have absolutely no idea what an unheralded Smiths song is. I think I've been around Morrissey fandom too long -- there are too many that think everything he's ever done is fantastic. I don't mind "Golden Lights" though. It is slight, but it's kind of sweet.

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Sunday, 8 August 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

What Nicole said.

― Kim (Kim), Monday, 9 August 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

anyone else know and have anything to say about the twinkle version? anyone know what other twinkle songs sound like?

― ||amateur!st|| (amateurist), Monday, 9 August 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

four years pass...

as always back then, nicole and kim are 100% correct. a slight, but pleasant, song.

also, in the thread header scott was 100% correct -- i always detested the song "meat is murder." that and "miserable lie" are probably my two least favorite smiths songs -- i'd much sooner listen to "golden lights" (or "oscillate wildly") than either of those two.

― Eisbaer, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 05:57 (seventeen years ago)

Maybe the Smiths should have covered "Golden Brown" instead.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 09:02 (seventeen years ago)

Marcello OTM.

I heard the Twinkle version (of Golden Lights, not Golden Brown) once... it is quite nice, but the Smiths version mings.

― The Real Dirty Vicar, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 10:08 (seventeen years ago)

ive been humming this ever since that poll last week!

― 69, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 20:02 (seventeen years ago)

A DEATH FOR NO REASON
AND DEATH FOR NO REASON IS MURDER

― HI DERE, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 20:04 (seventeen years ago)

I love listening to "Meat Is Murder", preferably while eating ribs.

― HI DERE, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 20:05 (seventeen years ago)

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